All Things Wicca!

[Ben Trismegistus]

While there are other threads discussing specific Wiccan paths, here's a thread for Wicca in general, and that confusing buzzword, "eclectic".

What would you like to know? Don't be shy!

[Ben Trismegistus]

Here's a site to get you started:

http://wicca.timerift.net

[Isil Darkmoon]

Pffft! I went to post the "wicca for the rest of us" link but ben beat me to it!

It is a good site. The writing can be a little cynical at times, but it has THE best 101 info I've found to date. It's an excellent resource.

[RubyRose]

:lol: I've read that site ... its pretty good too.

[MoonDust]

I was hoping for an eclectic thread. Thanks Benny!

[Ben Trismegistus]

I was hoping for an eclectic thread. Thanks Benny!

But now we need for people to post in it -- we're lagging behind!

[MystIc_WolF]

Well, I guess I'll help you guys catch up a bit. I'm on just about as eclectic a path as you can get, head over to my Green Wicca/Witchcraft thread to learn more.

[MoonDust]

But now we need for people to post in it -- we're lagging behind!
what? you mean like info? I don't do info.

[Ben Trismegistus]

what? you mean like info? I don't do info.
Well, I was thinking that if people had questions regarding Traditional or Eclectic Wicca, this would be the place to post them.

[DebLipp]

:lol: I've read that site ... its pretty good too.

Plus I love their book recommendations. ;) :D

[MoonDust]

Well, I was thinking that if people had questions regarding Traditional or Eclectic Wicca, this would be the place to post them.
ahh gotcha

[MystAngel]

Thanks for starting this thread... I don't know that any path seems like "the one" yet, for me. I'm enjoying reading about all of them. What does seem like me is a very open type of wicca, very much the solitary type. I've been a guest of some friend's who have a small coven in their town, and they did my handfasting with my now-husband... I think until I learned more, I would always feel like I was doing the wrong thing, if working with others in ritual or magic raising. Maybe after I gain some self confidence... Has anyone ever been part of an "online" type of group, with online rituals? These friends of mine lived in another state than me, and they kept in touch with many people around the country this way.

Ahh, *sigh* I'm babbling. I've been away from Wicca for 8 years, for the most part....and it feels so good to be able to be back, without hurting anyone. BB to all, and I plan on posting many things in this thread. I just found it tonight and I've written a novel already.

Myst

[Taliesyn]

Gee- I liked that site, Ben. I think that since Wicca as a whole has become more popular (I have watched a big shift in the past 10 years or so) That you see alot more folks just doing their own thing.
That's why even though I don't follow the tradition I was taught, I still feel it is important to learn from another Wiccan if you want to be Wiccan, if you can find one. Out of respect for the Path, and so you can get a clearer insght into things that can't be described very well in a book.
Not that I feel that you have to- BUt I think that this is important- even thought I consider myself Ecletic.
what do you guys think?

[Ben Trismegistus]

I think until I learned more, I would always feel like I was doing the wrong thing, if working with others in ritual or magic raising. Maybe after I gain some self confidence...
It sounds like what you need is a teaching coven -- it's a group started by an official Wiccan High Priest and Priestess, with the intention of assembling a group of people with little or no practical experience of Wicca, and teaching them everything, starting from the rudiments and working their way up. Some more Gardnerian covens would put you through three degree rituals, but that depends on how traditional you like your Wicca.


I still feel it is important to learn from another Wiccan if you want to be Wiccan, if you can find one. Out of respect for the Path, and so you can get a clearer insght into things that can't be described very well in a book.
I feel that that the best way to learn about any path is in a teaching relationship with a more experienced member of that path. Not the only way, of course.

[Taliesyn]

Ben, you are completely correct. Spirit's path is different for each of us. THe folklore and dogma attached to any path is just that- what is really important is your personal connection to Spirit.
I have met some folks who called themselves "elders" who had little connection, and some who called themselves "students" who were true and deep.

[frigga]

Hmm, what could I say, thought I'd give this thread a bump.

It's truly interesting the web we weave in our lives. I grew up in a Pagan family tradition ( all of the lifestlye, non of the religion), and a few years ago, I decided to find my spiritual self. So far I have gone from Wicca, to Pagan, to seeking, and I find myself back at Wicca again.
You meet many that love the free reign your given in pagan religions, but as i have looked into quite few of them, I find a little structure, in my case, is needed!
A question that has had me thinking the last few days though is this:Why do so many Wiccan sites offer info on differnet deities?
Here's where I'm coming from. In Wicca you Honor the Lord and the Lady in their triple forms, correct? Although you see a different entity in each season, they are but one in the same, and a part of the whole. Most other religions that Wicca has drawn on see thier Gods as separate and apart from the rest. They are worshipped alone as a single entity amongst others. Doesn't this go against Wiccan beliefs? I understand ones need for wanting to call a name such as Firgga, or Rhiannon, but I have seen Pantheons promoted for use, and to me that seems as though they are promoting old Pagan religions and not Wicca.
I am truely confused on this and anyone with a little light on the subject would be apreciated!

[DebLipp]

A question that has had me thinking the last few days though is this:Why do so many Wiccan sites offer info on differnet deities?
Here's where I'm coming from. In Wicca you Honor the Lord and the Lady in their triple forms, correct? Although you see a different entity in each season, they are but one in the same, and a part of the whole. Most other religions that Wicca has drawn on see thier Gods as separate and apart from the rest. They are worshipped alone as a single entity amongst others. Doesn't this go against Wiccan beliefs? I understand ones need for wanting to call a name such as Firgga, or Rhiannon, but I have seen Pantheons promoted for use, and to me that seems as though they are promoting old Pagan religions and not Wicca.
I am truely confused on this and anyone with a little light on the subject would be apreciated!

First, most Wiccan trads worship a triple Goddess and dual (not triple) God.

Most Wiccans are "soft polytheists"; they see individual Gods and Goddesses as aspects of the One Lord and One Lady. Hence, studying specific deities enhances our understanding of the Lord and Lady, and invoking specific deities invokes the "flavor" or aspect of deity that emerges in ritual.

Some Wiccans are "hard polytheists"; they believe that separate deities are separate and individual, not aspects of anything else. They worship the Lord and the Lady as specific individuals. However, most hard polytheist Wiccans don't believe that their worship forbids them from also worshipping other deities; since Wiccans are polytheists, most believe that it is fine to worship the Lord and the Lady AND Rhiannon AND Frigga.

[frigga]

First, most Wiccan trads worship a triple Goddess and dual (not triple) God.
Most Wiccans are "soft polytheists"; they see individual Gods and Goddesses as aspects of the One Lord and One Lady. Hence, studying specific deities enhances our understanding of the Lord and Lady, and invoking specific deities invokes the "flavor" or aspect of deity that emerges in ritual.

Some Wiccans are "hard polytheists"; they believe that separate deities are separate and individual, not aspects of anything else. They worship the Lord and the Lady as specific individuals. However, most hard polytheist Wiccans don't believe that their worship forbids them from also worshipping other deities; since Wiccans are polytheists, most believe that it is fine to worship the Lord and the Lady AND Rhiannon AND Frigga.
I see the understanding in that. Thank you! I never knew only 2 Gods were worshipped. I thought there were 3, the horned God, the Sun, and the Sage.

[Ben Trismegistus]

I see the understanding in that. Thank you! I never knew only 2 Gods were worshipped. I thought there were 3, the horned God, the Sun, and the Sage.
That's one I've never heard before, but then, there's a lot of diversity in the Wiccan community about how divinity is represented.

Most Wiccan trads worship a dual god, represented by the Oak King and the Holly King. The Horned God is also worshipped as another (but separate) aspect of the God, as is the Green Man.

[DebLipp]

The dual God is the dying and resurrecting God. He is John Barleycorn, cut down only to be reborn. He is Oak and Holly, Stag and Bull. He is the Horned (antlered) God, and then his antlers fall off, only to renew themselves. He is life and death, the baby Sun and the Lord of the Underworld, the Winter Solstice and the Summer Solstice.

A different dual God is the Red God/Green God. I think this was first articulated by Oberon Zell, back when he was Otter [g]. The Red God is the god of blood, the hunt, the stag, and wild things. The Green God is the god of plants, the harvest, and tame things. The Hunter and the Gatherer.

[frigga]

The Holly king is another word for the sage, and the sun is well, the sun! I know I'm not alone here because other Pagans/Wiccans also see him this way.
Maybe it's a common accidental cross over from the aspects of the Goddess. There's so much talk about balance, but the divine it's self isn't? Hummm.....I guess they hadn't quite gotten the gender roles down as far as fathers being a different role in the mans life. You'd think the Goddess would have an equal counterpart for each of her aspects?

[DebLipp]

The Holly king is another word for the sage, and the sun is well, the sun! I know I'm not alone here because other Pagans/Wiccans also see him this way.
Maybe it's a common accidental cross over from the aspects of the Goddess. There's so much talk about balance, but the divine it's self isn't? Hummm.....I guess they hadn't quite gotten the gender roles down as far as fathers being a different role in the mans life. You'd think the Goddess would have an equal counterpart for each of her aspects?

You're on track. The original theology was of a triple Goddess and dual God, but people wanted it to be more equal, so they developed a theology of a triple God. I first heard this coming out of California about 20 years ago.

But it's not a strict gender distinction. Goddess and God doesn't equal Girls and Boys. The Goddess is that which is eternal and endlessly cyclic, whereas the God is that which ends and begins.

As to the Goddess wanting or needing a counterpart, well, neither the Maiden nor the Crone is particularly interested in partnership; I see the God as relating primarily to the Mother in all His aspects.

[frigga]

You're on track. The original theology was of a triple Goddess and dual God, but people wanted it to be more equal, so they developed a theology of a triple God. I first heard this coming out of California about 20 years ago.

But it's not a strict gender distinction. Goddess and God doesn't equal Girls and Boys. The Goddess is that which is eternal and endlessly cyclic, whereas the God is that which ends and begins.

As to the Goddess wanting or needing a counterpart, well, neither the Maiden nor the Crone is particularly interested in partnership; I see the God as relating primarily to the Mother in all His aspects.
I don't see the Goddess as needing a counterpart, but in order for balance here and proper growth, life needs all aspects, I don't know how I would have grown without my father. How does life grow without one?

[Ben Trismegistus]

But it's not a strict gender distinction. Goddess and God doesn't equal Girls and Boys. The Goddess is that which is eternal and endlessly cyclic, whereas the God is that which ends and begins.
Wow Deb - that absolutely blew my mind! I've never heard the disparity between the God and Goddess described in those terms, and yet it makes absolute sense! So the Goddess is about the endless revolutions of the earth and nature, and the God is about the cycle of life and that which is ephemeral. Fascinating!

[DebLipp]

I don't see the Goddess as needing a counterpart, but in order for balance here and proper growth, life needs all aspects, I don't know how I would have grown without my father. How does life grow without one?

Of course life doesn't grow without a father, but a father and a mother don't do exactly the same thing in conception, and the Lord and Lady don't do exactly the same thing either. The Goddess in Her triple aspect of Maiden, Mother, and Crone is only creating life as Mother, so the God creates life as Her partner only when She is in that aspect.

If you look again at the John Barleycorn metaphor, you see that it is not always mother and father. In this aspect, the Lady is the Earth itself, the field where crops grow. The field is always there, whether fallow or fertile. Unlike the field, the barley is planted, grows, reaches fruition, and is cut down. So these are two different cycles; one of eternity and change within eternity (the field), one of death and resurrection (the barley). We cannot live without our Mother Earth, nor can our crops grow. We cannot live without our crops either, and we cannot live without His sacrifice to us, allowing Himself to be cut down.

As you and I both agree, lots of people work with a triple Goddess and triple God. I'm just presenting the other view since it is traditional Wicca and this is a Wiccan Path folder, and also because you said you weren't familiar with it.

[frigga]

Thank you, that really did shed light on an aspect I hadn't thought about, or maybe, understood, before!!

[Dreamy Snowvy]

Wow that was really a wonderful site with tons of info that I cant really
absorbed. Is there any more site that is more high level that is more simple?

Really want to thanks all of you in MW for being helpful. :)

Happy Always,
Snowvy

[Ladyvi]

absolutely on the genderless issue on the gods and goddesses. we place the gender on the aspects not the gods. because it makes us more comfortable . not the gods themselves. i often refer to them as the gods both masculine and feminine. its all about polarity and duality and recognizing that within us . not making a man more feminine or a woman more masculine to gain the duality .. but finding them within the nature we are. both the endless revolutions and the cycles .. both the spirals and the ascensions. ultimately i dont see the divine as either male or female .. but both.

classic misunderstanding . man was created then woman created from man. what is forgotten is that for the creation to occur the creator had to understand what it is to be woman. therefore creation is ultimately male and female. the both can stand alone but both need each other to create the whole.

[Kern]

The dual God is the dying and resurrecting God. He is John Barleycorn, cut down only to be reborn. He is Oak and Holly, Stag and Bull. He is the Horned (antlered) God, and then his antlers fall off, only to renew themselves. He is life and death, the baby Sun and the Lord of the Underworld, the Winter Solstice and the Summer Solstice.

A different dual God is the Red God/Green God. I think this was first articulated by Oberon Zell, back when he was Otter [g]. The Red God is the god of blood, the hunt, the stag, and wild things. The Green God is the god of plants, the harvest, and tame things. The Hunter and the Gatherer.

I like those anaologies.