Celtic (Irish) Reconstructionism

[Morr]

Allrighty, I've always always been influenced by the Celtic (Irish) traditions, myths & history. But I'm seriously feeling a shift in my beliefs towards total Irish Reconstructionism (I'm currently an Eclectic Wiccan). I know theres some IRs/CRs here - And I was wondering if you guys could give me a few pointers as to where I should start seriously exploring this path (books, links, etc). I'm technically not a newbie.. Because I've read a lot about Irish Celtic mythology and history of the Celts (both in school and on my own).. I need something to take me more indepth with the religion itself, and how I should go about making the transition from Wicca, to IR/CR.

Thanks so much :)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

The biggest, most important thing you can do is learn Gaelige (Irish Gaelic). I also higly suggest you spend a lot of time reading the "original" sources for Irish Mythology such as the Irish Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabala Errin), the Cattle Raid of Cooley (Táin Bó Cúalnge), The Second Battle of Mag Tuired (Cath Maige Tuired), the Book of the Dun Cow, the Book of Leinster, The Yellow Book of Lecan, The Tainand the Colloquy of the Ancients (Agallamh na Seanórach) which can also be found preserved in the Book of the Dean of Lismore. And of course spend some time getting to know the Brehon Laws.

Lady Gregory and William Butler Yeats. After that, I suggest Alexei Kondrateiv's, The Apple Branch, and books dealing with history, folklore, and archaeology. Authors I suggest are Peter Beresford Ellis, Stuart Piggott, Jean Markale, R.J. Stewart, James George Frazier (The Golden Bough), Miranda Green - also known as Miranda Aldhouse Green, Nora Chadwick, Barry Cunliffe, Nigel Pennick, and Walter Y. Evans-Wentz (Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries which can be found in it's entirety at sacred-texts.com). Ronald Hutton apparently also has some good stuff out dealing with the Celts of the British Isles and Ireland, though I've not read it. Other authors that are more new-agey but still good are Mara Freeman, Caitlin and John Matthews, and Emma Restall-Orr (though she deals more with the Druidic stuff). For good info I recommend you stay away from DJ Conway, Edain McCain, and Douglas Monroe.

Online, there are also several good articles and websites you can read for good info. The tuath e-group at Yahoo Groups is pretty good, though you might have trouble getting on. Mothwench wasn't unable to get herself onto the list. Here are some others I recommend:

Sacred-Texts, Celtic Folklore (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/index.htm)
Luminarium (http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/)
Clann Coille na Gealaiche (http://users.indigo.net.au/darke/treubh/menu_writing.html)
Grove of Danu (http://www.groveofdanu.org/)
Inis Glas Thoir (http://www.thunderpaw.com/neocelt/)
An Leabharlann Ghaidhlig Againn, formerly Clannada na Gadelica (http://www.leabharlann.org/)
Celtic Spirituality Links (http://www.conjure.com/CELT/cspirit.html)
The Nemeton (http://www.technovate.org/web/nemeton/)
The Sanctum of Cathbad (http://wildideas.net/cathbad/)
The Summerlands Public Library (http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/publibra.html)
C.E.L.T. (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/)
The Preserving Shrine (http://www.seanet.com/~inisglas/)
Technovate.org (http://technovate.org/web/)
Celtic Digital Library (http://celtdigital.org/)

Also, any online articles you can find by Alexie Kondrateiv, Iain Mac an tSaoir, Erynn Rowan Laurie, and Searles O'Dubhain are great. And many of the Druidry websites, like ADF and the Henge of Keltria have some great articles as well.

If you were looking for stuff on Scottish Recon, I could give you a lot more info. Sorry.

[Morr]

thanks soooooo much!

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Oh, I wanted to mention also that BeliefNet has a great Recon community/boards.

[Samhain1916]

You put the word irish in brackets after celtic. Myself being celtic and only 1/4 irish. Celts don't only come from Ireland but from Wales and Scotland as well. Just thought i'd let ya know. The ramainder 3/4 of me is Welsh.

[Morr]

You put the word irish in brackets after celtic. Myself being celtic and only 1/4 irish. Celts don't only come from Ireland but from Wales and Scotland as well. Just thought i'd let ya know. The ramainder 3/4 of me is Welsh.


yup, but im interested in the Irish culture specifically... and as far as I know, the Irish myths, legends, culture, history & gods are considered "Celtic".

[Flutterby_whispers]

A book I would recommend is "The Irish Celtic Magical Tradition ~ Ancient wisdom of the battle of Moytura" by By Steve Blamires

What I love is that he writes the book for beginners and even if you aren't one I still think it's a good read ~ it's a wonderful intro into the Tuatha de Danann Legend.

I also wanted to 2nd what a previous poster when she said stay away from Edain McCain ~ I read one of her books, er well tried to and couldn't get past the first few pages lol

[aluokaloo]

I've got a question, see I'm interested in Rhune Magick, and I know all the celtic rhunes by heart, (I'm also learning Norse rhunes) but I don't know the meaning of each celtic rhune, can anyone help me out? :hrmm: :fpeek:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Celtic Runes? Do you by chance mean the ogham instead? They are not the same thing as runes. Runes are a Germanic phenomenon from what I know of them.

[aluokaloo]

Is that what they're called? I could have been misninformedI think thats what i mean.

[aluokaloo]

No thats not quite it. I looked, and they look nothing like the ones I was taught. But thank you for trying to help.

[frigga]

Ok, so I've been having a dream about people cloaked in grey "calling to me". I've done a search online and get the clothing of Old Celtic areas and they mention the Maic na ngra'd wearing grey cloaks( and only the Maic na ngra'd.). But who the heck are they? I can't seem to find any info on them, at least in english. ANy advice on where to look or what anyone knows? Maybe what I got is way of base, and someone knows something else.

[soilsigh aingeal]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Maic+na+ngra%27d&btnG=Google+Search
There were only two results on here, the second said Druidic clothing and dress. So that's what I'm guessing.

[frigga]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Maic+na+ngra%27d&btnG=Google+Search
There were only two results on here, the second said Druidic clothing and dress. So that's what I'm guessing.
Yeah, that's what I came up with to, not to much info. Thank you.

[Sibylle]

I hope I haven't overlooked anything, if this is a repeat, please forgive me. I'd STRONGLY recommend "Celtic Rituals" by Alexei Kondratiev. This book doesn't tell everyone what they want to hear, but it is one of the most authentic and non-fluffy ressources I've ever come across.

Hugs!!

[frigga]

Do you mean the Apple Branch? :huh:

[Seren_]

Do you mean the Apple Branch? :huh:

I think they're the same book, the Apple Branch is a re-release.

I have to say I have a few problems with the book, but it is an excellent starting point. I'm not sure I agree with his pan-Celtic viewpoint, which makes some his history a little misleading IMHO; I think these days there is enough material out there to get a good idea of the majority of the Celtic cultures separately, rather than lump it altogether into a whole. But then no book can please everybody.

Now Imbas is back up and running (hurrah), you can find a lot of Alexei Konadtriev's other articles. I particularly like his piece on Danu and Bile:

www.imbas.org
(Or at least it was...I can't seem to access it at the moment.)

A free copy of the Tain Bo Cuailgne can be found at:
http://www.spirit-net.org/gotosite.asp?SID=49
It's not an up to date translation, but it's a start. If you're feeling rich, I'd recommend The Tain, translated by Thomas Kinsella.

Then there's the Medieval Internet Sourcebook, which has a section dedicated to Celtic history:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook1o.html#Ireland

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I agree the book does have it's problems, but it's a good overview of CR. And yes, the Apple Branch and Celtic Rituals are the same. The big problem I have is that the rituals included in the book are very wiccanized in my opinion.

And I'm so thrilled that IMBAS is back up. They're a great website, and from his posts on imbas-public Alexie seems like a great guy. He really knows his stuff.

[Seren_]

The big problem I have is that the rituals included in the book are very wiccanized in my opinion.

I wondered at that too. It's my impression that most recons are trying to get away from that type of thing.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I'm not really sure why he did that. The only thing I've managed to come up with is that he was trying to appeal to a broader market perhaps. :whatgives

[Sibylle]

I think they're the same book, the Apple Branch is a re-release.
You talking about Kondratiev? Didn't know there was a re-release.


I have to say I have a few problems with the book, but it is an excellent starting point. I'm not sure I agree with his pan-Celtic viewpoint, which makes some his history a little misleading IMHO; I think these days there is enough material out there to get a good idea of the majority of the Celtic cultures separately, rather than lump it altogether into a whole. But then no book can please everybody.
I don't agree with everything he says either, but like you say, it's a good starting point. I found it very thought-provoking... and sometimes just provoking, lol. Altogether it's a very sound ressource, imho.

Hugs!!

[Nantonos]

I wondered at that too. It's my impression that most recons are trying to get away from that type of thing.

I think the book was deliberately aimed at a wide readership, with historical accuracy considered very secondary to sales.

A few years ago I got the book, because it was referred to in such glowing terms so often. I was stunned by how bad it was, wicca-lite with some celtic elements mixed in. I assumed the author did not know any better.

However, over the years, having taken part in discussions on many mailing lists, its clear thatthe author knows a lot better, is very well read and has studied a lot of subjects in depth. Just chose to put out a populist book. I guess we all have to pay the rent .... or maybe the idea was that, since there is clearly a market for fluff wicca with a light touch of green seasoning, its better to provide something slightly closer to traditionalist irish/scottish practice than the rubbish that is out there.

[Nantonos]

I'm not sure I agree with his pan-Celtic viewpoint, which makes some his history a little misleading IMHO; I think these days there is enough material out there to get a good idea of the majority of the Celtic cultures separately, rather than lump it altogether into a whole.

I agree with this criticism, unfortunately its a common fault in the area. It seems to be a reaction to ensure Celtic culture in some form survives, so the similarities are stressed and the differences dowplayed to provide a workable modern identity.

I think it warps the whole field however and is ultimately detrimental. It also tends to give the idea of historical development in a vacuum, untainted by other cultures. This is clearly inaccurate.

[Garden of Eden]

I think it's useful to know Irish if you wish to practice celtic witchcraft, I'm (nearly) fluent in Irish, so I do most of my rituals etc. in gaeilge... It certainly adds feeling to it :)

[Fairy Disturbed]

can someone suggest the best places to find books talked about earlier in this post. I wasn't sure if places like barnes and nobles, or amazon would carry the books or if I need to look somewhere else?

[Seren_]

can someone suggest the best places to find books talked about earlier in this post. I wasn't sure if places like barnes and nobles, or amazon would carry the books or if I need to look somewhere else?

I tend to buy all my books from places like amazon or abebooks - they tend to be cheaper and these days a lot of books are out of print so getting them second hand is unavoidable, and much easier online.

There are plenty of books available online (although because they're older they tend to be a little outdated), and I've done a links list with a few of them along with other resources, here. (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=191053) It's worth taking a look at the CR FAQ, which has a book list of recommended reading :)

[odubhain]

No thats not quite it. I looked, and they look nothing like the ones I was taught. But thank you for trying to help.

I'd be interested in hearing more about "Celtic Runes" as I've never seen an example of anything besides Ogham, Boibeleith or Coelbren that could be called Celtic Runes."

I've added this information after the original post just so folks understand how maybe Runes and other forms of script can be considered to be Ogham. In the Ogam Tracts of the older Irish books, there are close to a 100 different forms of it shown in tables. Many of these look like what most nowadays look like Ogham, while others look like some forms of Runes (like Branching Ogham). Still other specific forms of Ogham are shown they clearly indicate that the Irish Druids and Filidh were familiar with Runes and Hebrew. One Ogham form is a type of Futhark while another is actually the Hebrew alphabet. More esoteric Ogham forms even appear in a kind of pictographic, symbolic form. The Book of Ballymote is online at ISOS to see these forms in its folios. Skip Ellison of ADF wrote a book on Ogham that also includes images of these forms.

Searles O'Dubhain