Norse Gods

[Mairwen]

-- Posted by mol
Anyone know much about the Myths of these people..particularly I was
wanting to know more about Odin. i was reading somewhere and there was
mention of a myth that Odin brought mankind 'runes' and I cant seems to
find any information on that.

Does anyone know the story?

-- Posted by Mairwen
from the Elder Edda:

For all of nine stormy nights
I hung upon the tree,
Wounded by my own blade
Odin consecrated to Odin
An offering of Myself to Myself.
Bound to that mighty tree
Whose roots men know not!
None gave me to eat
None gave me to drink
Down into the abyss I wandered
And sought out the Runes!
Then I fell into the darkness with a great cry!
Rebirth I attained
And also wisdom
For I grew strong and exalted in my growing.
Thus from one rune was I led to a second
From one act to another.


-- Posted by mol

Excellent...Thanks a lot! I knew you would get me some info!! Heh! :)

I found just some general stuff about Odin:

All-Father of the Gods in Norse mythology, Odin was the god of battle, and
he ruled, with twelve of the Aesir, in Asgard. Odin watched the world of
men, Midgard, from his high seat atop Valaskialf, the tower from which he
could see everything that transpired in the world below. Odin had two
ravens, Hugin and Munin, who brought to the All-Father news of the world
of men, and two hunting wolves also.

Son of Bor and Bestla, a giantess, Odin had two brothers, Vili and Ve, and
together the three destroyed the first ice giant, Ymir, and created the
world. After this, Odin and his brothers created man and woman, from two
lumps of driftwood they found. The man they called Ash, the woman Embla.
Odin's eldest son was Thor, the god of thunder. He was also father to
Balder the Beautiful, the most handsome and loved god in Asgard. His wife
was Freya, and he also professed a fathership towards Loki, the god of
mischief, which is somewhat in doubt, Loki having been the son of one of
the giants of Jotunheim.

I got it here: http://www.clubi.ie/lestat/godso.html

[Jazzmine]

That was very interesting. Thank you so much.

[Rosabelle]

i have just read a book of Norse Myths and they are very interesting. most of the stories have morals like the one with Odin and the tests the giants gave him like racing against thought and trying to lift up the snake which wraps it's way aroud the world and trying to fight age. that taught me a lot.
Rosabelle

[Mairwen]

There's a lot of Norse links on the Net. I could scrounge up a list, if you wish. In fact, before I take off, I'll email my Sweet Mr (who's a practicing Asatru ~ yes, we have an interesting household) for a few.

[flar7]

Odin was loki's father and loki's mother was a Frost Giant.

[Myst]

necromancer!

[Mnemosyne]

Yes, Odin supposedly brought mankind runes. I have a book on Norse mythology that mentions that and other myths; however, I have it in the classroom where I work. I can get you the name of the book later. I have seen a website that mentions about the rune and Odin myth very briefly.


http://www.ipcc.com/market/newage/runes.htm

[Mnemosyne]

Ok, I do have a book that tells some Greek myths at home. Here is the myth how Odin obtained the runes.

"Odin was the All-father, supreme among gods and men, yet even so he constantly sought for more knowledge. He went down to the Well of Wisdom guarded by Mimir the Wise, to beg for a draught from it, and when Mimir answered that he must pay for it with one of his eyes, he consented to lose the eye. He won the knowledge of the Runes, too, by sufferering. The Runes were magical inscriptions, immensely powerful for him who could inscribe them on anything- wood, stone, metal. " He got the runes from hanging on the tree for nine nights. Mol posted that story from Elder Edder earlier. Then, Odin passed the knowledge of the runes to men, so men could protect themselves with them.

I got this information from Edith Hamilton's Mythology- Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes.

[Killing_Yggdrasil]

Odin was loki's father and loki's mother was a Frost Giant.

i've read actually that they were foster-brothers, but so much of the myth has been changed, it's hard to say anymore.

[Grey]

Odin was loki's blood brother though no one knows why. Its been rumored that he was his father, or that he was thors father.
He did bring the runes to man-kind and was a master of those arts, which is odd as runes were considered a womans art for the most part. He was a necromancer, healer, warrior and else beisdes.
He was known as "the betrayer of warriors" because he so emphasied tactic over people in his battle plans. Of course he has to in order to save as much of the world as possible from ragnarok.
He was the god of battle, magic, seers, and knowledge. He was often considered a god of storms, though not thunder as that was thors position.
Some say that he took the position of battle god from Tyr, as he took the position of leadership amungst the gods. Tyr was a war-god, a god of honorable combat and so retained some status especially among those who had to fight duels, which were rather often as trial by combat was a viable option on most things.
Odin was the grandson of the first god, created by a cow licking the ice that was everything in the world.
Odin lead the Aesur in the war in heaven and defeated the Vanir, bringing back as hostages freyja and Frey. Historians believe that this is metaphorical to a war between the two rival cults in the northlands, and the union between them as one was absorbed into the other.
As a warrior Odin is depected in maile with a spear (gugnir), shield and a furred mantle below his helm, often atop his mount sleiphnir (the 8 legged horse begotten by loki) It is in this state that he shall be eaten by fenris at Ragnarok.
As a mage he id depected with a cape and floppy hat pulled over his missing eye while carying a staff. The dress when colored is usually a blue-grey.
He had twin sons the elder of which was balder, the younger was haldir. Balder was beloved by the whole world and so when his mother went out she was able to get an oath not to harm him from every thing on earth, except mistletoe which was so small the it wasnt even noticed. Loki gave haldir and arrow made of mistletoe and had him shoot baldir as the gods shot everything else at him. The mistletoe having not made the oath killed baldir and he was sent to Hel. Hel said she would only release him if everything in the world wept for his death, and loki disuised as an old woman in a cave did not condeming him to death until after ragnaroc.

[flar7]

son's of Odin.
Thor
Baldur
Loki
and 2 others I am forgeting.

Thor's sons, Magni and Modi by the lady Sif (bald wears wig in some legends)

Loki's kids...eek! he made it with anything. Several monsters are his offspring, among them Fenris and Jormungandr I believe. and the horsie. heheh

Now, for some reason, Odin often taunts his son Thor, enraging him. This piece of the myth is depicted in a famous painting that I should remember but cant. where thor and odin in a boat trying to fish out the serpent. The Myth says that Jormungandr will kill Thor right as Thor kills the midgard serpent(Jormungandr)

Loki, the trickster, jealous of Thor and Baldur, uses his superior mind to often outwit the two, and takes great joy in tricking Thor. Thor is usually depicted as the ultimate warrior, except that he is slow witted. Not the brightest torch in the castle.

[Skrette]

Odin was loki's blood brother though no one knows why. Its been rumored that he was his father, or that he was thors father.
He did bring the runes to man-kind and was a master of those arts, which is odd as runes were considered a womans art for the most part. .

Loke is not a aesir, he is a jotun, but he lives with the aesir.

No it was not the art of the runes that was taboo for men to use but seid or seidhr, which by the way odin also was a master practitioner of.

Skrette

[Grey]

Blood borther my friend is the same as foster brother, if they were brothers by birth, it would have just been brothers.

Yes seidhr is amongst his multitude of skills, (he is after all the god of magic, loki is attributed this aswell) however runic magic was considered by most at the time a womenly art, just about any magic was for that matter. Thats only changed in recent times.

[Rain Gnosis]

Ok, I do have a book that tells some Greek myths at home. Here is the myth how Odin obtained the runes.

I think I missed something - you say Greek myth, Odin isn't Greek...?

[Skrette]

Blood borther my friend is the same as foster brother, if they were brothers by birth, it would have just been brothers.

Yes seidhr is amongst his multitude of skills, (he is after all the god of magic, loki is attributed this aswell) however runic magic was considered by most at the time a womenly art, just about any magic was for that matter. Thats only changed in recent times.

I know the meaning of blood brother, i just meant to bring the point of loki beeing a jotun up, not contradict that part of your post.


this about rune magic being unmanly is new to me what is your sources on this? that magic as a whole should be unmanly is very curious, I can not find that anywhere in the sagas or any of the other sources. The only things considered unmanly arts as far as I can see would be some specific disciplines. Quite on the contrary it seems to me that macig in many cases would be atributed to men of high standing and power.

Skrette

[Rain Gnosis]

Wait, I thought Odin brought runes? How could they then be unmanly?

[Skrette]

Wait, I thought Odin brought runes? How could they then be unmanly?

yeah well....as far as I know, knowledge and mastery of the runes was in no way considered unmanly....on the contarry there are several acoounts of men dealing in runemagic. Weaponry was for instance often inscribe with runes, the makeing and adorning of wich would be exclusivly men's terretory..rune inscriptions nameing male runemaster, the inscriptions them self being jinxes, and so on and soforth.


Seidhr was a exclusive female art on account of ergi, and the arts thought by women for women, anything to do with birth for instance. This was a society, with rigide rolemodels, and magic and what was acceptable to be involved in by the different sexes seem very much to have followed the same "boderlines" as other things in society, but i have never heard before that what we would call magic today was considered women's domain.

[Grey]

Allmost all forms of magic were considered womens arts, men were mearly dabblers for the most part. Warriors rarely used it. Most weapons that had runes on them were just words, not spells of any sort.
Runes, especially in divination, was a womens art. Only when it overlapped into another specialty was it otherwise. For instance there is a set of runes specificly for healing that was used by men and women who were healers.

[Rain Gnosis]

Uh, in other words Grey, what are your sources for this? I'd be interested to learn more.

[Grey]

Well the first one to come to mind is the notes in my copy of the havamal, and couple of sites. Ill look for them, I havent gotten everthing together since my computer crashed.

[Grey]

Heres the first one I found again...
http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/feminine.htm

[Skrette]

Warriors rarely used it. Most weapons that had runes on them were just words, not spells of any sort.
Runes, especially in divination, was a womens art. Only when it overlapped into another specialty was it otherwise. For instance there is a set of runes specificly for healing that was used by men and women who were healers.
This is strange...there is more than a few instances in the sagas, of weapons with magic connected with them, runes to make spears fly true, runes carved in blades so that they can be of no harm to the kin, friends and allies of the maker/giver of gift weapons etc. , warriors wearing clothing with powerful spells connected to them so that no blade might penetrate them etc. etc. And it is not only in the written sources we find evidence of this, runes translateing into spells like that are found, carved in steel and rock and other surfaces that have survived the tarnish of time. Some spells even give the name of the male runemasters that carved them.

i have heard different theories on these subjects but that runes where something men should not use is completely new to me. But off course with runes too there where certain things that where off limits for men, these would be the arts thought by the norns or disir to women for women.

What is this set of runes specificly for healing, do you by this mean a fragment of the futhark or do you actually mean that there is a special set only for this?

[Skrette]

Heres the first one I found again...
http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/feminine.htm
I have read this trough twice and are not able to find any in it that suggest that anything else than seid is a unmanly art.

The reference to lokesenna. is a strange one this is as far as I know the only place in the sources where a shamans drum is mentioned, in fact that is a argument of its own, was there ever drums in Norse shamanism, I'll leave that argument to another time and place, but it is not easy to know what to make out of this part.

the author seems in places to use the term magic without specifying it further...whilst seid is the only thing i can see the author proves is thought of as unmanly....

yes women where active in what we today call magic, which is no shock to me. yes alot of the Norse and older Scandinavian "magic traditions" seems to have been carried by women,which is not strange since shamanic traditions some places are carried by the women. but the sources also tells us that parts of "Norse magic" where done by men with honor.

But there is no doubt that some of the arts would be considered unmanly, understandable enough when we are talking about a society with very strict role models.

i know that there are different opinions as to what and how. One of the problems with alot of the sources is that they are written by christian men at the best several hundreds of years after the actual happenings, and it is safe to assume that in alot of the instances they where not sure them self (the authors of the sagas) of what actually took places concerning specifics of "magic" and they talk about specifics and then suddenly they use generics like "ways of sorcerers or sorceresses". Rendering alot of the sources unclear or contradicting each other. This is especially "dangerous" if you read a very limited selection of sources, one needs to read a wide range of these and then measure them against each other..

another thing about these christian authors writing about pagan costumes that unfolded where followed and then restricted and killed by christianity hundreds of years before their time (the authors time that is) is that it would be politically correct by them to make the women the witches and villains. But still the sources as a whole does not suggest that "magic" as such was unmanly, and nowhere have i seen even hinted at that rune mastery as such was unmanly.

If this was the case how would one explain that the first christian kings thought it necessary to kill so many men, Skrette/seidmadher/sorcerer at times tens at a time on account of sorcery. We still have several places in this country called skrette-skerry because it was used to drown groups of male sorcerers/skrette. there are accounts of the first christian kings inviting local skrettes to feasts and then burning the house they slept in, would tens of skrettes respond to an invitations and come to a feast, tens of them all from one small areas of the country, if their arts where considered unmanly.....I think not.

[Rain Gnosis]

I brought this up over on the Northvegr forums to get different points of view. There have been 3 responses so far ranging from "the person who wrote that article had an obvious agenda and interpreted things to fit into their agenda" to "that's just pure garbage".

The folks there point out there is no evidence to show that runes were used for divination in Eddic times (though they are used in that way by neopagans, and though that's very valid), and that carving names in weapons in itself was necessarily a magical act. There is clear evidence in Egil's saga and in the Edda to show that men did use runes magically.

Here's a link to the discussion there (http://www.northvegr.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=133). I also hope our Rick Runesinger (a member here by the nickname of Rick) will comment as well.

[Grey]

It would seem that there is more evidence against my case than for it. I have been unable to find any of my original sites that spoke of this. I must therefore assume that you are correct skrette and rain. Thank you for the information.

[Skrette]

It would seem that there is more evidence against my case than for it. I have been unable to find any of my original sites that spoke of this. I must therefore assume that you are correct skrette and rain. Thank you for the information.

Well these are topics with few straight forward anwers and "doctrines", the sources are confusing at times. besides there are people out there, also on the web with agendas of their own that seem to read the sources the same way a certain man reads the bible, and thus finds and then at times makes a seeminly splendid argument for what ever aganda they have.

Being confronted with a new, strange or in any other way opposing theory is food for thought and hopefully we all got some new good stuff out of this discussion.

[Flar's Freyja]

Feast day of Heimdall

This Icelandic Viking god is the guardian of Asgard, home of the gods, and lives beside the rainbow bridge that connects Asgard with other realms. He is an enigmatic deity who needs no sleep and can see in the dark even on the darkest night. He was born of nine giantesses and the waves of the sea.

Pip didn't post a link to where he got the info like he usually does. I found it in the daily Wilson's Almanac (http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com) e-zine.

[Skrette]

Feast day of Heimdall

This Icelandic Viking god is the guardian of Asgard, .
Icelandic ?????

he is also supposed to have sired the tree classes of men

[Rick]

Rain Gnosis, how do you call to me across the miles? :)

Kvethja, Skrette! Disir's heppni um thin heimili (Jeez, I hope I didn't butcher that beyond recognition... I think I'd better stick to English; I barely speak that :D ).

I have to agree with Skrette here... I can't recall anything in the Lore about runes being the domain of women. I'd almost say that it would be to the contrary... sources such as the Eddas, Sagas, Codexes, etc, generally all point to strong men, kings such as Hrolf Kraki or the equals of kings such as Egil, as being runemasters. Women referred to in these sources as using the magical arts were generally spoken of as seers or witches (and the term 'witch' in this sense was usually used in a negative light), but usually not as runecasters.

[Flar's Freyja]

Icelandic ?????

he is also supposed to have sired the tree classes of men

Again -


Pip didn't post a link to where he got the info like he usually does. I found it in the daily Wilson's Almanac e-zine

[Rain Gnosis]

Freyja, who's Pip?

[Flar's Freyja]

Freyja, who's Pip?

Wilson, owner of Wilson's Almanac (http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com)

[flar7]

Freyja, who's Pip?
well, I was gonna say Flinx's flying snake........but I was wrong.

[Flar's Freyja]

well, I was gonna say Flinx's flying snake........but I was wrong.
:fishsmack

[Flar's Freyja]

http://www.ecauldron.com/index.php

Festival of the Einherjar

In the Asatru esoteric tradition, today commemorates the 432,000 Einherjar, spiritual warriors who guard the gods.

“Accounts of Valhalla describe it as a large hall, decked with the implements of battle. The Einherjar are described as being well-hosted, they are fed on pork and mead, and each day, the Einherjar practice at the art of battle. They engage one another in terrible, bloody conflicts, and at the end of the day, come back to life, and walk off the field, the best of friends.”

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com