Anglo-Saxon Reconstructionism

[mucgwyrt]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Anglo-Saxon Reconstructionism.
(and to see if anyone else out there is actually into it or if it's just me being quirky ;) )

Firstly and most importantly I think, is the acknowledge the impact that the Anglo-Saxons have had on our culture - our language most obviously. The Anglo-Saxons spoke what is called "Old English" now, and is where modern English stems from. This has affected the whole world as we know it.

It is incredibley difficult to work out what festivals the Heathen Anglo-Saxons celebrated, and what they didn't, as so little written evidence exists. Main texts are The Lacnunga, Beowulf, and Bede's Reckoning of Time. The Leechbook is also handy, though more heavily Christianised than The Lacnunga. Related, but useful, texts are Tacitus' Germania, in which he discusses the Anglo-Saxon Ancestors; The Danish/Norse etc.

I've found that there is very little written on the net, and what is online is for the most part a regurgitation of the same thing you'll find everywhere else. However if you stop to think and to analyse that which other people may overlook, much more information can be discovered. As such I have written a mini-essay on "The Anglo-Saxon Calendar and Related Festivals", which is located here (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=55270), if anyone's interested :D

Muchos Gracias :boing:

edit: Back on topic - I've recently purchased a website which I'm going to use to "spread the good word" on Anglo-Saxon magic and so forth. Email or PM me with any content suggestions :smile:
http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk

[Seren_]

Christian Penitentials are also a good source, I think; they had lots of penitientials for people who were caught doing Pagan things. In one of them - the Penitential of Theodore, lunar eclipses are mentioned: “Whoever thinks to exert themselves when the moon is obscured, as though they hope to defend it with their shouts or sorceries in some sacrilegious rite, let them do penance for 5 years.” Apparently people would shout "vince luna" - "let the moon win!"

Anyway, I got this from Aspects of Anglo-Saxon Magic, by Bill Griffiths. It's very good, although no index at the back.

[mucgwyrt]

Wow, thanks! I'll see if I can get a copy of that :smile:
Speaking of books, I'm reading "Anglo-Saxon Magic" by Godfried Storms, which is very good :)

[mucgwyrt]

Bump :D

[Calyx]

Hey! I went to read your essay, which I thought would be quite intriguing, only to find that you DELETED it! :wah2:

I want to reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaad it! All 7 pages of it!

So, would it be safe to say that Ango-Saxon-ism and heathenry are interconnected, then?

And, I don't know if you've ever read it, but how about Michael Crichton's the "13th Warrior"? Anything good in there? That's really more norse, though, isn't it?

[FeatherGoblinglimmer]

WAHHH you deleted it!!!!!I must say i am very interested.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Hey! I went to read your essay, which I thought would be quite intriguing, only to find that you DELETED it! :wah2:

I want to reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaad it! All 7 pages of it!

So, would it be safe to say that Ango-Saxon-ism and heathenry are interconnected, then?

And, I don't know if you've ever read it, but how about Michael Crichton's the "13th Warrior"? Anything good in there? That's really more norse, though, isn't it?

Calyx, I saved it to my computer at home. If you want I can PM it to ya.

[mucgwyrt]

:rotfl:
no one reads it for weeks, and as soon as I delete it I get two takers!

I deleted it because I'm gonna improve it and hopefully submit it to a pagan magazine. I dont have it on my pc at the moment, maybe morag could send you a copy Calyx :)
(not that she's read it or anything :razz: )

Yes, the Pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons can be considered Heathens :uhhuhuh:

[Calyx]

I'll take that PM! :boing:
I really would like to read it, and if you don't have it I can get it from Morag. Just let me know.... :viking:

[mucgwyrt]

Yeah, if you PM Morag and get it from her - I've deleted the copy I posted on MW, I just have a butchered version at the moment :lol:

[Calyx]

Yeah, if you PM Morag and get it from her - I've deleted the copy I posted on MW, I just have a butchered version at the moment :lol:
I can do that! Thanks! :fpoke:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

~grumbles~ Figures that as soon as I promise it to people I can't find it. I'm sure I saved it, but I'm not sure where I put it. Give me some time to find the article.

And macha, why did you not save your original copy?

[Nantonos]

:rotfl:
no one reads it for weeks, and as soon as I delete it I get two takers!

I read it when you posted it.

Aargh! You deleted it? And I was just going to point to it too because the subject came up on another list. Plus I was looking for it to post a link on the 'wheel of the year' teaching thread.

** pouts **


I deleted it because I'm gonna improve it and hopefully submit it to a pagan magazine.

Well, better to delete it once the better version is there not before...

Well, I have a copy from email notification, perhaps, or perhaps not ...

[Nantonos]

~grumbles~ Figures that as soon as I promise it to people I can't find it. I'm sure I saved it, but I'm not sure where I put it. Give me some time to find the article.

And macha, why did you not save your original copy?

I would appreciate a copy also. MW sends me email when new posts happen on a therad I subscribe to - but only once until I read the thread again. So Macha's legendary article is not there, I just checked.

[mucgwyrt]

I do have the original copy - the one I posted on MW isn't it. My copy is in a word document with a few pictures etc, for my BOS. I can post that if you like, but it will look a bit wierd because I use a font which no one else will have...

I can put it back up on monday if you'd prefer *ho-hum*

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Yes, we would like it back. And why didn't you save the MW copy? You just don't love us enough to save the copy for us, is that it? :wah:

[mucgwyrt]

I did, I kept it for a whole week and then deleted it when no one said anything ;)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Well you should have kept it there. I've posted lots of things that no one responds to and I don't delete them. :fpatricks

[Nantonos]

Well you should have kept it there. I've posted lots of things that no one responds to and I don't delete them. :fpatricks

Mòrag is right. I post lots of things that don't get comments or karma or anything. I don't wander around deleting them.

Naughty macha.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Nantonos, I think we should tie her up and tickle her mercilessly as punishment. What do ya think? :deviltail

[mucgwyrt]

:wah:

[Nantonos]

Nantonos, I think we should tie her up and tickle her mercilessly as punishment. What do ya think? :deviltail

Only after she edits the post back.

We have to give her an incentive.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

~pouts~ Oh fine, I'll wait.

[mucgwyrt]

Gummy-worms are an incentive *yum-yum*

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Are you saying if we feed you gummy worms you'll put it back up? :eyez: Are you trying to get us to bribe you?

[mucgwyrt]

You said it, not me :D

[Nantonos]

Gummy Worms fanlisting (http://www.daisykitten.net/gummy/)

[mucgwyrt]

Gummy Worms fanlisting (http://www.daisykitten.net/gummy/)

Wwwwoooow :steppy:

[mucgwyrt]

Anyway! We're hyjacking my carefully positioned Anglo-Saxon thread!!! :wah:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

We're sowwy. Will you forgive us?

[mucgwyrt]

:hmmmmm:

[mucgwyrt]

OK.
But only because if I say "ok" it will bump Anglo-Saxon Recon up to the top of the list again, right where it belongs :D

[mucgwyrt]

Back on topic - I've recently purchased a website which I'm going to use to "spread the good word" on Anglo-Saxon magic and so forth. Email or PM me with any content suggestions :smile:
http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk

[Calyx]

I still want your article.

Morag, give! :dancy:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I can't find it!!!!! :sadeyes: I'll try and locate it this weekend. I'll have to do a thorough search of my comp at home.

[Calyx]

OOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :jawdrop: :wah2:

[FeatherGoblinglimmer]

* tickles macha for the fun of it*

[Seren_]

Back on topic - I've recently purchased a website which I'm going to use to "spread the good word" on Anglo-Saxon magic and so forth. Email or PM me with any content suggestions :smile:
http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk

Hurrah! I look forward to it. :smile:

[mucgwyrt]

PS, - I'm gonna stick my article on it this weekend sometime :)

[mothwench]

Back on topic - I've recently purchased a website which I'm going to use to "spread the good word" on Anglo-Saxon magic and so forth. Email or PM me with any content suggestions :smile:
http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk

:boquet: neat!!! :boing: are you going to do any rune pages?

[Sibylle]

PS, - I'm gonna stick my article on it this weekend sometime :)
One word: WHEN???

P.S. Sorry, you don't even know me - I've only just joined this forum :bouncysmi But I'd really like to read this article. Please? Pretty please?

[mucgwyrt]

Righty-ho, the article is now online for your perusal. There are a few minor errors, but I'm not gonna fix em, as I'm going to expand the essay and submit it to a pagan magazine :D

Link (http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk)
(please excuse any bugs, it's a work in progress...)

[wyndrazor]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it or not, but has anyone seen the book(s) Teutonic Mythology by Grimm?

[Sibylle]

Woot!

That's an awesome article. I'm not through yet, but then you don't need to finish a bowl of soup to know whether there's enough salt in it ;)

Going back to reading now...

Hugs!!

[Nantonos]

Righty-ho, the article is now online for your perusal. There are a few minor errors, but I'm not gonna fix em, as I'm going to expand the essay and submit it to a pagan magazine :D

Yay!

Very nice site design, clear and easy on the eye, good design sense (as we would expect from you).


Link (http://www.wiccecraeft.co.uk)
(please excuse any bugs, it's a work in progress...)

A couple of comments if I may:

Stone (1997) is cited but does not seem to occur in the list of references.

The author and title of each online reference should also be given, if the page itself gives them, as well as the actual URI (web address).

I recommend saving locally a copy of each of those online references, because experience shows that 30% of them will not be around in a years time. This is not so you can put them online yourself its just as a personal record of what you were referring to.

The online references are not clickable. If you are worried about having people move off your site, make them open in a separate window. (put target="refs" on the a element).

http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html does not appear directly on your list of references, and should; it seems in fact to be Stone (1997).

You don't say which edition of Bede's works you are citing or who the editor or translator was. This bibliography might prove useful:
http://www.geocities.com/~jarrow/bib/bib.html
and a useful and citable bio is at
http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/bede.htm


Under Roodmas, a brief discussion of the term 'rood screen' in the context of English churches might be appropriate.

http://www.Bædasworld.co.uk is almost certainly wrong, since the machinery to do non-ASCII domain names is very new and primarily used in Korea; I don't see a whois entry for Baedasworld.co.uk either, so please check.

Corpus Scriptorum Latinorum has a small portion of De temporum ratione online:
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/bedex.html

I couldn't find a full copy of the relevant work online, sorry. A table of contents, at least, is here:
http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chronologia/Lspost08/Bede/bed_ra00.html

[Nantonos]

http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/exhibns/month/jan2001.html

University of Glasgow library, Book of the Month for January 2001

Bede
Writings on the Calendar
Durham: twelfth century
Sp Coll MS Hunter 85 (T.4.2)

Apparently at Glasgow Uni library you can also view a 16th century copy!
http://eleanor.lib.gla.ac.uk/record=b1670494

they also have an interesting and relevant sounding modern work:

Author Aelfric, fl.955-1010.
Unif title De temporibus anni. Anglo-Saxon & Latin
Title Aelfric's De temporibus anni / edited from all the known MSS. and fragments, with an introduction, sources, parallels, and notes by Heinrich Henel.
Publ. info. London : Oxford University Press, 1942.
http://eleanor.lib.gla.ac.uk/search/tDe+temporum+ratione./tde+temporum+ratione/-5,-1,0,B/frameset&FF=tde+temporibus+anni+anglo+saxon+and+latin&1,1,

St. John's library, Cambridge also has two copies

"BEDA DE TEMPORIBUS, ETC. A.22
Vellum, 11.25 x 7.75, ff. 120 + 2, 33 lines to a page. 12th century (1132?), in a beautiful upright hand."
http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/Library/special%20collections/Medman/A.22.html

"BEDA DE TEMPORIBUS, ETC. I. 15
Vellum, 9.75 x 6.5, ff. 200 + 5, text mostly in double columns of 32 lines. 12th cent., very beautifully written."
http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/Library/special%20collections/Medman/I.15.html

There must, surely, be a published critical translation somewhere.

[Nantonos]

From an essay entitled Aelfric ( Ælfric ). (955 (?) - 1010 (?)) by Stuart Lee, University of Oxford

http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=39


Therefore it is not surprising to see that the Ælfrician Canon contains many 'teaching texts' such as his Colloquy (originally in Latin and translated into Old English at a later stage by one of his pupils, Ælfric Bata), a Latin Grammar and Glossary, and a version of De Temporibus Anni.

Sounds like there might be useful calendar stuff in De Temporibus Anni.


Ælfric is generally considered to be one of the main writers of Old English prose, yet a quick glance at such editions as W. Skeat's Lives of Saints would seem to indicate that he also wrote verse (Skeat chooses to lay out the text in verse). The reason for this is the development of his 'rhythmical prose' style of writing. In this Ælfric draws on the traditional form of Old English verse, by writing fairly standard 'half-lines' (usually four syllables, with two main stresses) and linking the half-lines of each whole line by alliteration, a device that is ever present in Anglo-Saxon poetry. Therefore many editors have chosen to illustrate this by presenting his text as verse, as opposed to running prose. However to do so is misguiding and ill-informed.

Interesting comment on AS 'rhythmical prose', sounds like something to preserve in AS reconstructionism (whether using AS or modern English).

While I am on the subject,
http://labyrinth.georgetown.edu/display.cfm?Action=View&Category=English,%20Old

includes such things as "Anglo-Saxon Chronicle" and "Anglo-Saxon Plant-Name Survey".

[mucgwyrt]

Yes, unfortunately Aelfric's one of those books which I mentioned, with prices beginning at £150+ :wah:

[mucgwyrt]

Yay!

Very nice site design, clear and easy on the eye, good design sense (as we would expect from you).


I should hope so, what with me being a Graphic Designer and all ;)
There are a few bugs (like the corners at the top) but I shall have to fix that later in the week.



A couple of comments if I may:

Stone (1997) is cited but does not seem to occur in the list of references.


Yeah, my references are quote sloppy because it was originally written just for my person interest and bos, until you bullied me into posting it ;)
The Stone reference is in a different website, listed at the bottom.



The author and title of each online reference should also be given, if the page itself gives them, as well as the actual URI (web address).

I recommend saving locally a copy of each of those online references, because experience shows that 30% of them will not be around in a years time. This is not so you can put them online yourself its just as a personal record of what you were referring to.


Good idea.



The online references are not clickable. If you are worried about having people move off your site, make them open in a separate window. (put target="refs" on the a element).


No, I was just in a hurry at the time :D
Will get to it at some point...



http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html does not appear directly on your list of references, and should; it seems in fact to be Stone (1997).

You don't say which edition of Bede's works you are citing or who the editor or translator was. This bibliography might prove useful:


Yes, because it's all net references. I have bought a few copies of bede's work (books) in the meantime, and will research them "properly" and reference them proprely too for "The 2nd Edition of Cat's Smashing Essay" :)



http://www.geocities.com/~jarrow/bib/bib.html
and a useful and citable bio is at
http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/bede.htm


Under Roodmas, a brief discussion of the term 'rood screen' in the context of English churches might be appropriate.


Okaly Dokaly :D



http://www.Bædasworld.co.uk is almost certainly wrong, since the machinery to do non-ASCII domain names is very new and primarily used in Korea; I don't see a whois entry for Baedasworld.co.uk either, so please check.


Ah, yeah, that'll be my text-editor (long story) - it's bedesworld.co.uk. Will get it changed.



Corpus Scriptorum Latinorum has a small portion of De temporum ratione online:
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/bedex.html

I couldn't find a full copy of the relevant work online, sorry. A table of contents, at least, is here:
http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chronologia/Lspost08/Bede/bed_ra00.html

Have bought a copy :D

[mucgwyrt]

Ps -http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html isn't the source I used. I shall dig it up and reference it better when I get a free 5 minutes ;)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

We didn't bully hon, we bribed you with gummy worms! :razz:

But yay!!!! Glad it's back up, in a new and improved form. :dancy:

[Seren_]

Macha,

It occurred to me that you might find this relevant, if you haven't seen it already. It's from an 11th century Anglo-Saxon, concerning the import of dreams according to the phase of the moon (full moon having least impact) - there's no entry for the tenth or eleventh night:

The Importance of Dreams according to the Phase of the Moon

On the first night when the new moon is come, whatever one sees in a dream will turn out well.
On the second and third night, it will (mean) neither good nor evil.
On the fourth and fifth nights, she presages good outcome.
On the sixth night, whatever you see will come about, and you will be shielded from any bad consequence.
On the seventh night, what you see will come about, and after a long time will occur.
On the eighth night and the ninth, as soon as you see the dream, it will mean illness or misfortune.
On the twelfth and thirteenth night, within three days you will see your dream come about.
On the fourteenth night, it has no effect.
On the fifteenth night it has little effect.
On the sixteenth night, after a long time your dream will come about.
On the seventeenth, eighteenth and nineteenth, within 103 days’ time the dream will make good.
When the moon is twenty or twenty-one nights old, what you see in the dream will affect your position or possessions.
When she is twenty-two nights old, what you see will result in great joy.
When she is twenthy-three nights old, what you see will mean strife and contention.
When she is twenty-four nights old, and twenty-five and twenty-six nights old, what you dream is worthy of serious alarm: within nine or ten days your dream will come about.
When she is twenty-seven and twenty-eight nights old, it signifies complete happiness.

I got it from Bill Griffiths' Aspects of Anglo-Saxon Magic; it gives the old English as well if you want it.

[Seren_]

The import of New Year's Day

When the first day of the New Year is a Sunday, it will be a clement winter, and a windy spring, a dry summer, a good harvest, and it will favour sheep, and there will be peace and a good return on crops.

When it falls on a Monday, it will be a rainy winter and a fine spring and a windy summer and a stormy and arduous harvest.

When it falls on a Tuesday, it will be a wet winter and a windy spring and a wet summer and women will perish and ships miscarry and kings die.

When it falls on a Wednesday, it will be a hard winter and a bad spring, a good summer and an arduous harvest, and honey will be lacking.

When it falls on a Thursday, it will be a clement winter, and a windy spring, and a good summer, and a good harvest.

When it falls on a Friday, it will be a variable winter, and a good spring, and a good summer and a good harvest.

When it falls on a Saturday, it will be a rainy winter, and a windy spring, and all crops turned bad; sheep will die and so will old people.

Edit: same source as above...

[mucgwyrt]

Fantastic Seren! I'll karma poke you to death for this!! :D :D :D

PS - On the strength of that, I'll go buy the book ;)
Does he say what his source is for that? Doesnt sound like the Lacnunga or Leechbook... :huh:

[Seren_]

The first is from a Bodleian library manuscript, and the second says it's from "BL Cotton MS Vespasian", 12th century. No more specific than that, I'm afraid.

[mucgwyrt]

Thanks :)

[Calyx]

hey!!!!!
I tried to pull up your article and it gave the the dreaded 404 not found! :blushake:

what's up with that? :hmmmmm:

[mucgwyrt]

server was down - it's back now :)
http://www.artgazm.com/wiccecraeft/calendar.html

[Seren_]

Fantastic Seren! I'll karma poke you to death for this!! :D :D :D


PS :bigredgri

Thanks, no probs.

[Calyx]

server was down - it's back now :)
http://www.artgazm.com/wiccecraeft/calendar.html


Ooooh! very cool! :yourock:
I just printed it so I can read it at lunch time! :)

[mothwench]

The import of New Year's Day

When the first day of the New Year is a Sunday, it will be a clement winter, and a windy spring, a dry summer, a good harvest, and it will favour sheep, and there will be peace and a good return on crops.

When it falls on a Monday, it will be a rainy winter and a fine spring and a windy summer and a stormy and arduous harvest.

When it falls on a Tuesday, it will be a wet winter and a windy spring and a wet summer and women will perish and ships miscarry and kings die.

When it falls on a Wednesday, it will be a hard winter and a bad spring, a good summer and an arduous harvest, and honey will be lacking.

When it falls on a Thursday, it will be a clement winter, and a windy spring, and a good summer, and a good harvest.

When it falls on a Friday, it will be a variable winter, and a good spring, and a good summer and a good harvest.

When it falls on a Saturday, it will be a rainy winter, and a windy spring, and all crops turned bad; sheep will die and so will old people.

Edit: same source as above...

hey, cool! that book has gone on my list, too. :floating:
one question: which new year is the author referring to? january 1st or the day after the solstice?

[mucgwyrt]

Originally it would have been the solstice as the text is obviously pagan (officially the church forbade divination), however it was undoubtedly applied to the christian new year later on, as that is when it was written down (so it was obviously still in use)

[mothwench]

Originally it would have been the solstice as the text is obviously pagan (officially the church forbade divination), however it was undoubtedly applied to the christian new year later on, as that is when it was written down (so it was obviously still in use)
yeah, that's a funny thing about the church and divination practices. yesterday i was searching the net and landed on a christian site about old farmer's calendars. (in german, sorry.) i saw there something very similar to those two practices seren talked about, it was about the twelve days after solstice (the raunächt) only working with the sun:

example: sunshine on the first day means three chickens will turn purple and explode
sunshine on the second day means your children will all become shoesalesman, etc...

i'll see if i can find the site again, and i'll link you to it, and translate that bit for you.

[mucgwyrt]

sunshine on the first day means three chickens will turn purple and explode

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I think there's something similar in that book by Griffiths. Would be interesting to compare them :smile:

[mothwench]

okay i found it. from the very christian http://www.kirchenweb.at/bauernkalender/ ( :woah: they have a crucifix in the corner of the page. i feel funny just being there. silly me :durrrr: ) they are referring to the raunächte, that same as the article we were pm-ing each other about. the one difference is that here they start on the 25th, the other article stated the eve of st. thomas, the 21st.

sunshine on:
-the first day (dec. 25)------ it will be a good new year
-the second day (dec. 26)-- prices will go up
-the third day (dec. 27)----- arguments will arise
-the fourth day (dec. 28)--- family members will be plagued by fever dreams (nightmares?)
-the fifth day (dec. 29)----- fruit crops will be good
-the sixth day (dec. 30)---- all other fruits will do well too (... :foh: wut? :wtf: ...)
-the seventh day (jan. 1)-- the grazing fields for cattle will be lush and abundant
-the eighth day (jan. 2)---- of fish and birds there will be plenty
-the ninth day (jan. 3) ----- business deals will come out well
-the tenth day (jan. 4) ----- many storms
-the eleventh day (jan. 5)-- much fog
-the twelvth day (jan. 6) -- hardship is afoot

[mucgwyrt]

About what date is this?

Eve of St Thomas my bum - Eve o' the Solstice! :fpompoms

[mothwench]

:lol:
ya know... it would be interesting to know where and how christianity draws the line between apparently acceptable divination practices like these and the ole proverbial pact with the devil kind of thing. this has been puzzling me for quite some time. :huh:

btw, it doesn't say what date.

[mucgwyrt]

They didn't even (officially) tolerate this kind of thing - there are loads of laws against it!

[Nantonos]

This page about 'Holy Tides' seems to mix Amglo Saxon heathenry with more modern neo-Asatru beliefs. Still interesting though:
http://www.ealdriht.org/tides.html

There is also a "History of Anglo-Saxon Heathenry"
http://www.ealdriht.org/history.html
The history is incredibly short (one sentence) for the entire Roman period though. They have a useful summary of their tradition at the end of that page;


Modern Anglo-Saxon Heathenry is not and cannot claim to be an authentic reconstruction of the ancient religion. The myths of its Gods it owes in a large part to the Norse Eddas and the Dane Saxo. Other beliefs have been reconstructed from comparison to the Icelandic sagas, and many of its traditions are drawn from later English folklore. Modern Anglo-Saxon Heathenry is therefore a synthesis of many Germanic traditions and beliefs that have been interpreted using the best scholarship in modern Germanic Heathenry. Despite this, it never can or will be the ancient religion. Still, what survived of the Anglo-Saxon Heathen beliefs is being followed by many in the Americas and Great Britain. And while it is not exactly as the ancient religion of the Jutes, Saxons, and Angles was, it captures the spirit and soul none the less.

[mothwench]

This page about 'Holy Tides' seems to mix Amglo Saxon heathenry with more modern neo-Asatru beliefs. Still interesting though:
http://www.ealdriht.org/tides.html

wow, interesting article, thanks for posting.



yule:

...The bringing in and burning of the Yule log...
i wish they'd be more specific here. but all the websites do that, i'd love to know exactly how it was done, though. anyone?




ewemeoluc:
sees particularly reminiscent of imbolc. does imbolc mean "ewe's milk" too? i seem to remember milk being part of many imbolc rituals...





walburgis (may day):

The next morning with t he rising of the sun, a procession with the May Queen, hobby horse, and other characters would proceed to the May pole. On the way, the Winter Hag would confront the procession and do battle with the Queen and her men. The Hag would ultimately lose the b attle, and the procession would proceed.
:foh: is that actually true? the may queen, hobby horse and other characters, hmmmm... it reminds me of the wicker man (film) in a strange way. and the hag of winter, who could this be? :huh: again, i'm reminded of berchta, but then i'm biased.

will comment more later. :ghostie:

[mucgwyrt]

The horse thing - I've heard that elsewhere I think. When I remember what they call it I'll get back to you :toofless:

I find you do need to be careful with this website though. I forget if its this one or one of its sister sites which list "traditional anglo-saxon recipes" which include sugar :doh2:

[mothwench]

do you mean the hobby horse thingy?

anyway, didn't they have sugar beets? :huh: but i know exactly what you mean, cause i've just linked to a wassail recipe from that site and it called for frozen strawberries. and may wine. :wtf:
edited to add: it's the last one on this page. http://haligwaerstow.ealdriht.org/wassail2.html

speaking of which: any good wassail recipes around? :drinking:

[mucgwyrt]

"1 1/4 c Brown sugar "

:lol:
I dont know any good recipes I'm afriad, but if you find one let me know :)

I haven't heard of sugar-beets being used; most anglo-saxon cookery books I've read say they used honey as a substitute.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

The most common given etymology for Imbolc/Oìmelc is as you stated above related to the lactation of the ewes at this time. However there are some other suggestions.


Scholars have suggested several possible meanings for the word Imbolc, and all the suggestions correspond to aspects of the festival.

Hamp argues that the best meaning is "milking" (Ó Catháin, p. 7), but he also supports Vendryes’ suggestion that Imbolc comes from the Celtic verb folcaim, "I wash" and was related to ritual purification at the festival. This would also relate to the house cleaning, house blessing, and well devotions associated with Imbolc in recent folk practices.

Another possible explanation is "in the belly" which may relate to the processions held around the fields, often seen as th body of goddesses in which the grain and other crops would grow. This would also reflect the general association with rebirth of nature that was beginning at the time of Imbolc. (Berger, p. 70)

It may be worth noting that the Irish verb imbolgaid means to blow a bellows. Smithing was another aspect of Brigid, the goddess and saint often associated with Imbolc. One could visualize a ritual image of blowing the bellows to increase the fire that would warm the cold earth.

Source: http://www.geocities.com/celticwell/ejournal/imbolc/about_imbolc.htm

If I remember correctly, Alexie Kondratiev in his book The Apple Branch goes deeper into the "I wash" lustration aspect of the feast, and that there might be evidence to suggest that lustration in milk occured at this time. I'll try to remember to look that up tonight and let you know.

[Seren_]

yule:

i wish they'd be more specific here. but all the websites do that, i'd love to know exactly how it was done, though. anyone?

Hutton's Stations of the Sun traces the Yule log traditions back to the seventeenth century in recorded history, no earlier. It was a fairly widespread tradition though, with many local names like The Yule log, Yule Clog, Mock, Stock, Yule Block, Yeel Carline (Christmas Old Wife, Scottish), Y Bloccon Gwylian (the Festival Block, Welsh), or Bloc na Nollaig (Christmas Block, in Irish).

The Yule log was a large log (the biggest someone could find, or could fit in the stove or on the fire), which was intended to be burnt throughout the whole festival period. Traditionally, a little of the old log was kept to light the log of the following year, and neighbours would have a competition to see who could get the biggest Yule log. The log was intended to not just provide the convenience of a permanent fire during the festivities, but it was also believed to provide protection (against witches or faeries), ensure prosperity for the coming year, or guard against misfortune in the coming year. In the Highlands, the log - the Yeel Carline - was traditionally carved in the shape of a woman, perhaps to represent one of the many common old hags that feature so much in Scottish folklore.

There was often an element of friendly competition in who could get the biggest log for the household; there doesn't seem to have been any particular wood that was important for the log, except one that would burn well...The modern associations of the Yule log being of some ancient pagan origin stems from Frazer's interpretation of its magical associations obviously indicating pagan roots; these are now considered to have been roundly debunked, since there is no evidence of the tradition before the seventeenth century. Its consistent appearance in times after the seventeenth century might indicate that we could project the practice back a little further, assuming that the first mention of it indicates its establishment as a tradition.

Feasting and making merry were all part of the course for the midwinter celebrations, and from the middle ages it seems to have been traditional for a wassail cup to be passed around among friends with the Old English toast "Wassail" - "Your Health!" - cried out before being passed to the next person. The recipient would then reply "Drinkhail", take a drink and pass it on to the next person with a kiss and another toast as before. Wassailing has also crossed over into a kind of first footing associated with the New Year as well.

One of the midwinter traditions that can be traced with some certainty back to pagan origin (so Hutton thinks) - and again, particularly Scandinavian origin - is the decoration of houses with midwinter greenery. Holly and ivy have long been associated with midwinter, being some of the most readily available foliage and colour around at this time of year, and yew and box are also mentioned from the medieval period onwards. The holly was considered to be male, and ivy female.

In the Highlands, holly seems to have been hung in the house, in order to keep the faeries out, and elsewhere, it seems that holly tended to be taken into the house, whereas ivy was hung outside the house, as one fifteenth century poem describes:

Nay, ivy, nay, it shall not be, I wys,
Let holly have the master as the manner is,
Holly stood in the hall, fair to behold,
Ivy stood without the door, she is full sore a-cold.


walburgis (may day):

:foh: is that actually true? the may queen, hobby horse and other characters, hmmmm... it reminds me of the wicker man (film) in a strange way. and the hag of winter, who could this be? :huh: again, i'm reminded of berchta, but then i'm biased.

will comment more later. :ghostie:

Hutton has a chapter on hobby horses in Stations of the Sun. He says early Christian writers from the fourth to the eleventh century quite often condemned practices incorporating the Old Woman and dressing up in animal skins for winter festivities, but there seems to be some disagreement about how accurate these early sources are, or whether it indicates actual pagan practise.

EDA: Horsey associations with May Day can be seen in various parts of Britain, but it's been suggested that the tradition has actually been transplanted from midwinter festivities. At Christmas/winter time in parts of Wales, there is the Mari Lwyd (Grey Mare) - a horses skull on a pole decorated with ribbons and so forth, which is paraded around by a man. The skull is often partially covered by a white sheet, and the skull might have glass eyes stuck into the sockets. The mari would then "sing" outside a house for admittance, and the householders would sing back a refusal. They'd sing back and forth until one side cracked, but then they'd eventually let the horse in for drinks and fun. On leaving, the mari would bless the house. Other names for the horse are Y Pen Ceffyl - The Horse's Head, or Y Wassail.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Here's some more info about the etymology of Imbolc for you mothwench:


Professor Hamp has argued that the Indo-European root for Imbolc was *uts-molgo, meaning purification, and that it eventually became *ommolg, meaning milking, which would have appeared similar to Oímelc, another term in Cormac's Glossary for Imbolc (Hamp 1979/80: 109-11). Because of this, there may be grounds to suspect a link between purity, milk, and the holiday of Imbolc. According to Cormac's Glossary, Imbolc was "the time the sheep's milk comes. milking i.e. the milk that is milked" (Stokes 1868, 127). However, other scholars have rejected this explanation, instead choosing to argue that this may be a false etymology based on oí, meaning 'sheep', and melg, meaning 'milk' (Ó Catháin 1995, 7; Hamp 1979/80, 106-07).

Source: http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/7/torma.html

And this:


Emer tells Cú Chulaind that "Oimell, the beginning of spring...is the time when the sheep come out and are milked"; "For Oi, in the language of poetry, is the name for sheep" (1, 1a).


The nineth century source (2), Cormac's Glossary, tells us a similar story: "p.27, 'ói', where it is derived from ói, a sheep, and melc or melg, milk: "ói-melg 'ewe-milk', for that is the time the sheep's milk comes" (3). Oimelc is considered to be the folk name for the festival: another name recorded for this cross-quarter was Imbolg with a meaning of "washing"(3, 3a). In the Brehon Laws, the end of February marked the end of the seven months of wintertime in pastoral law, and the fines and prohibitions placed on the owners of animals that had not been penned up correctly and had caused damage were lifted now it was "at the end of the year" (13).

From this site: http://bonrhys.idx.com.au/CA/id5.htm

[Seren_]

BTW, I found a copy of that Importance of New Year's Day poem is in a Welsh text, The White Book of Rhydderch which dates to around the fourteenth century. Seems it was quite popular.

[Nantonos]

with more lack of references, but still

http://www.fyrnsede.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=20&POSTNUKESID=4ea8a06d7e6add4d772971af7f00abd1

linked from

http://www.fyrnsede.org/

[Ceffyl]

Hutton has a chapter on hobby horses in Stations of the Sun. He says early Christian writers from the fourth to the eleventh century quite often condemned practices incorporating the Old Woman and dressing up in animal skins for winter festivities, but there seems to be some disagreement about how accurate these early sources are, or whether it indicates actual pagan practise.
Interesting! Sounds like another Amazon order for his book...


EDA: Horsey associations with May Day can be seen in various parts of Britain, but it's been suggested that the tradition has actually been transplanted from midwinter festivities. At Christmas/winter time in parts of Wales, there is the Mari Lwyd (Grey Mare) - a horses skull on a pole decorated with ribbons and so forth, which is paraded around by a man. The skull is often partially covered by a white sheet, and the skull might have glass eyes stuck into the sockets. The mari would then "sing" outside a house for admittance, and the householders would sing back a refusal. They'd sing back and forth until one side cracked, but then they'd eventually let the horse in for drinks and fun. On leaving, the mari would bless the house. Other names for the horse are Y Pen Ceffyl - The Horse's Head, or Y Wassail.

Song #69 in Folksongs of Britain and Ireland is "Y Feri Lwyd" (also Y Fari Lwyd) or "The Grey Mari." There are 14 verses to the song, available in both English and Welsh, with sheet music. The group five or so people -- included possibly Punch and Judy, as well as someone dressed as the Fari holding the horse's skull (which could move it's jaws). When the group came upon a house, verses were sung as challenge and the people in the house responded -- and the battle of wits began and lasted until one group outwitted the other. This battle of wits was called a pwnco. It was considered bad luck for the people inside the house to win.

Folksongs also has a brief history and additional citations available on this Welsh tradition.

Kennedy has an interesting note about the meaning of 'Mari lwyd':


Willima Roberts (1852) suggests that this Christmas custom is a relic of the ancient festival of Balaam's Ass, the flight of Mary into Egypt (hence "Mari lwyd' meaning 'blessed Mary.') It is now thought, less romantically, to mean only 'grey mare' and to be related to the similar Hooden Horse and Old Tup ceremonies found in parts of England.

Two places in Wales with the longest-running Mari Lwyd traditions, Llangynwyd and Llantrisant in South Wales, have excellent online articles by the Llantrisant Folk Club. All three of the recordings listed in Folksongs are from Llangywyd, in Glamorgan, South Wales, recorded in 1956 (2) and 1947.


Magic of the Mari (http://www.folkwales.org.uk/mari.html)
Mari Lwyd: Llantrisant (http://www.folkwales.org.uk/arctd9.html"Mari Lwyd: Llangynwyd[/url] (song verses)
[url="http://www.folkwales.org.uk/arctd9a.html) (pictures!)
Mari Lwyd culture at the 1998 National Eisteddfod (http://www.folkwales.org.uk/arctd9b.html) at Pencoed, by Mick Tems, Taplas, December 1998


Sioned Davies and Nerys Ann Jones (eds.) have an excellent book called The Horse in Celtic Culture with a good chapter on the tradition of the horse in Welsh folklore. This chapter, written by Juliette Wood, relates the role of the horse in Welsh folklore, including Mari Lwyd, Rhiannon in the Mabinogion (and her relationship to the horse), as well as Rhiannon's relationship with Epona, and spectral horses.

Wood points out that the tradition of the Mari Lwyd was associated with Christmas, Twelfth Night, and Candlemas. The aim of the pwnco is to "getting across a threshold," the tension created by the verbal battle dissolves with the resolution of the rhyme. Wood also hints that the tradition may have aspects of a rite of passage, where this boundary created by the song sets the 'others' (those inside the house) against those within the group (the Mari Lwyd party). When the Mari Lwyd party is finally invited into the house, the boundary is dissolved. "In the Mari Lwyd, conventional names mask the revellers' identities, while the white/grey colour spectrum indicates the supernatural. Crossing the boundary is marked by celebration...This paradoxically reaffirms the integrity of the boundary and the safety of the group shielded by it. THe horse appears to be the agent which can cross the interstice."

The article doesn't focus on the ancient origins of the tradition, rather it points out that modern scholars focus on those origins without taking other modern factors into consideration:


A folklorist setting out to study the horse in Welsh folklore might consider Wirt Sikes's ecnomical entry in his British Goblins: Welsh Folk-lore, Fairy Mythology, Legends and Traditions, which includes general comment, a reference to the Mari Lwyd and sightings of fairy horses (Sikes 1880, 107). Its very shortcomings illustrate the problems inherent in the topic. The range of material, as to both period and genre, makes it difficult to establish the cultural links and meaningful interpretations, particularly when these links are sought in distant cultural origins.

...So prevalent is the assumption that recent folk traditions and narratives can be traced back to Celtic mythology and social practise that scholars are apt to overlook the relative modernity of this theoretical approach. Interest in links between ancient and modern Celts, at least in relation to their folklore, developed in parallel with more generalized concepts of cultural evolution and universal prerational consciouness...

...The links between Celtic antiquity and modern Celtic cultures are now usually expressed as continuity of structure and symbolic meaning. A feature common to these approaches is the assumption that correlations between past and present are the result of cultural continuity.
Any way... Good food for thought.


Additional information

J Wood, "The Horse in Welsh Folkdlore," in Davies, S. and N. A. Jones, Eds. (1997). The Horse in Celtic Culture. Cardiff, University of Wales Press.

Interview at BBC Online discusses some of the background of the Mari Lwyd custom in Wales, linking it to pre-Christian rites and fertility festivals that happen around mid-winter: BBC Online interview by Colin Davies with Emma Lyle from the Museum of Welsh Life (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/nadolig/audio.shtml)

Peter Kennedy, ed. Folksongs of Britain and Ireland. c1975, 1984. Oak Publications, London. ISBN 0.7119.0283.6 Song #69, p. 158; Notes on Song 69, p. 172.

(Don't have a complete copy of the following book, but it might have additional information.)
Goodall, D. M. and A. Dent (1998). A history of British native ponies: from the Bronze Age to the present day. London, J.A. Allen.

[Ceffyl]

PM me if you would like additional information and other sources on the Mari Lwyd. I relalized my post was already pretty long.

~Ceffyl
(as in horse as in Y Pen Ceffyl)

[Nantonos]

PM me if you would like additional information and other sources on the Mari Lwyd. I relalized my post was already pretty long.

~Ceffyl
(as in horse as in Y Pen Ceffyl)

Long is fine if its also richly detailed, on topic and well referenced.

So does Ceffyl mean horse, or pony, or ....

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

<snip>In the Highlands, the log - the Yeel Carline - was traditionally carved in the shape of a woman, perhaps to represent one of the many common old hags that feature so much in Scottish folklore.

Seren, I'm curious about this. The word cailleach is usually used for old mother/wife or hag in Scots Gaelic. I can't say I've heard carline. And a search of a Scots Gaelic dictionary doesn't turn it up. So I'm assuming this isn't from Scots Gaelic. Is the name then not Scots Gaelic but instead Anglo-Saxon?

[Seren_]

Seren, I'm curious about this. The word cailleach is usually used for old mother/wife or hag in Scots Gaelic. I can't say I've heard carline. And a search of a Scots Gaelic dictionary doesn't turn it up. So I'm assuming this isn't from Scots Gaelic. Is the name then not Scots Gaelic but instead Anglo-Saxon?

I'm guessing its a Scots (as in Scots, not Gaelic...) corruption...I was actually hoping to ask you about it! I will dig out my Scottish Folklore book and post anything info I find on your Scottish thread, seeing as it's more appropriate there. I think there might be some stuff about the Cailleach as well.

[Seren_]

A folklorist setting out to study the horse in Welsh folklore might consider Wirt Sikes's ecnomical entry in his British Goblins: Welsh Folk-lore, Fairy Mythology, Legends and Traditions, which includes general comment, a reference to the Mari Lwyd and sightings of fairy horses (Sikes 1880, 107). Its very shortcomings illustrate the problems inherent in the topic. The range of material, as to both period and genre, makes it difficult to establish the cultural links and meaningful interpretations, particularly when these links are sought in distant cultural origins.


British Goblins: Welsh Folk-lore, Fairy Mythology, Legends and Traditions (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/wfl/index.htm)

Where would we be without sacred-texts? I noticed this yesterday.

[mucgwyrt]

I'm guessing its a Scots (as in Scots, not Gaelic...) corruption...I was actually hoping to ask you about it! I will dig out my Scottish Folklore book and post anything info I find on your Scottish thread, seeing as it's more appropriate there. I think there might be some stuff about the Cailleach as well.
Yeah, dammit! You two stop polluting my nice shiney anglo-saxon thread! *sniff* :spinner:

[Seren_]

Yeah, dammit! You two stop polluting my nice shiney anglo-saxon thread! *sniff*


:deviltail Sorry

Have an Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Anglo/)

[mucgwyrt]

:deviltail Sorry

Have an Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Anglo/)
Oooo a SHINEY!

[Ceffyl]

Long is fine if its also richly detailed, on topic and well referenced.

So does Ceffyl mean horse, or pony, or ....

Ceffyl means horse. I picked up the word from a song title (from the same Folksongs book mentioned earlier) "Y Ceffyl Du," the black horse. A cute song about a horse that gives his owner all kinds of mischief.
What I didn't realize later was that the word ceffyl has a masculine gender association. :lol:

The little Hypocrene Welsh-English dictionary I have only lists Welsh to English words, not actual definitions. Horse entry list ceffyl, hors, and march (without giving gender for any of those words). Mare is caseg.

[Ceffyl]

British Goblins: Welsh Folk-lore, Fairy Mythology, Legends and Traditions (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/wfl/index.htm)

Where would we be without sacred-texts? I noticed this yesterday.

Excellent find! Thank you! _twohorns_

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Yeah, dammit! You two stop polluting my nice shiney anglo-saxon thread! *sniff* :spinner:

Does this appease you:

The Complete Corpus of Anglo-Saxon Poetry (http://sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/index.htm)

[mucgwyrt]

Does this appease you:

The Complete Corpus of Anglo-Saxon Poetry (http://sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/index.htm)
no, its in old english :wah:

[mothwench]

wow at all this horsey stuff. if the tradition (the grey mare) is from wales, then does that mean it's more of a celtic custom? the more i read about anglo-saxon heathen customs, the more i see that it's heavily influenced by celtic culture. and it's strange, the resemblence to the norse nidstang, practised on the continent. one man's curse is another man's blessing, so it seems in this case.

thanks for all the links to some really interesting articles, all of you. :woot:

[mucgwyrt]

Yeah, it did make me think of the nydstang, too :huh:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

no, its in old english :wah:

Sorry can't translate that for you.

[Ceffyl]

wow at all this horsey stuff. if the tradition (the grey mare) is from wales, then does that mean it's more of a celtic custom? the more i read about anglo-saxon heathen customs, the more i see that it's heavily influenced by celtic culture. and it's strange, the resemblence to the norse nidstang, practised on the continent. one man's curse is another man's blessing, so it seems in this case.

Hm... maybe (in terms of the nidstang) it was the sacrifice of something very precious that made the curse so powerful? (Ack. Wishing I had my books now that I'm at work!)

Verses of a curse involving the Nidstang are avaliable at Heithingi (http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=nidstang.html), chronicles of the Kings of Norwya.

Hmm... This is interesting, from a Web site (http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/nidstang.html) on runes quoting Nigel Pennicks' book on Rune Magic, "On the Niding Pole, the horse skull invokes the horse rune Ehwaz, using the linking and transmissive power of the rune for the magical working. The horse is sacred to Odin, god of runes and magic..."


------------

Rune Magic: The History and Practice of Ancient Runic Traditions,
by Nigel Pennick. Harper Collins, 1993, ISBN=1855381052

[Nantonos]

no, its in old english :wah:

Hence my point about learning the actual language and not some random later modern development of it. AS recons need to learn Anglo Saxon, not modern English or modern German; mediaeval Irish recons learn Old Irish not modern Irish, Religio Romana learn Latin not, say, Italian or French or Rumanian.

[Nantonos]

But I am curious about the charm For the Water-Elf Disease

http://sacred-texts.com/neu/ascp/a43_07.htm

[mothwench]

Hm... maybe (in terms of the nidstang) it was the sacrifice of something very precious that made the curse so powerful? (Ack. Wishing I had my books now that I'm at work!)
i'm not sure. i found lots of resources about nidstangs, what they are and examples of where they were put up, but never any information reguarding how it actually works, and why.

[Wodening]

wow at all this horsey stuff. if the tradition (the grey mare) is from wales, then does that mean it's more of a celtic custom? the more i read about anglo-saxon heathen customs, the more i see that it's heavily influenced by celtic culture. and it's strange, the resemblence to the norse nidstang, practised on the continent. one man's curse is another man's blessing, so it seems in this case.

thanks for all the links to some really interesting articles, all of you. :woot:

Actually, if you look deep enough, you will find it is not that much influenced by Celtic culture. Imbolec for example is not known to have been celebarated by the Anglo-Saxons until after the Conversion. Anyway, a better article on tides than on the main ealdriht site is the one on its priest guild at: http://haligwaerstow.ealdriht.org/holiday.html

Do not forget you can also do comparative studies with the Norse, and with the Saxons that remained on the continent. This is largely what we of the Ealdriht did.

Welga!
Swain

[mucgwyrt]

Actually, if you look deep enough, you will find it is not that much influenced by Celtic culture. Imbolec for example is not known to have been celebarated by the Anglo-Saxons until after the Conversion. Anyway, a better article on tides than on the main ealdriht site is the one on its priest guild at: http://haligwaerstow.ealdriht.org/holiday.html

Do not forget you can also do comparative studies with the Norse, and with the Saxons that remained on the continent. This is largely what we of the Ealdriht did.

Welga!
Swain
Yeah, but you didn't reference anything which is a PAIN! :rolleyes: :lol:

If you have time and are willing, I'd love to pull apart your festivals pages and ask you where you found such-and-such out? :)

[Wodening]

Yeah, but you didn't reference anything which is a PAIN! :rolleyes: :lol:

If you have time and are willing, I'd love to pull apart your festivals pages and ask you where you found such-and-such out? :)

Yeah, that is a problem. But at the time we just wanted to get it online! Most of the information was gotten from folklore books on customs that survived into the Middle Ages and modern times. I will try to locate the list and get post it here. Other information was gotten from academic books such as Chaney's The Cult of Kingship....

Welga!
Swain

[mucgwyrt]

Yeah, that is a problem. But at the time we just wanted to get it online! Most of the information was gotten from folklore books on customs that survived into the Middle Ages and modern times. I will try to locate the list and get post it here. Other information was gotten from academic books such as Chaney's The Cult of Kingship....

Welga!
Swain
That would be fantastic, if you could :D :hugz:

[Wodening]

Okay macha, as promised, here are the sources for the tides:

Teutonic Mythology Stallbrass translation, by Jacob Grimm
Germanisches Heidentum bei den Angelsachsen by Ernst Philippson (available online at http://www.literature.at/webinterface/library/ALO-
BOOK_V01?objid=13200&zoom=6
Funk and Wagnall's Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
The Cult of Anglo-Saxon Kingship by Chaney
Heimskringla by Snorri Sturloson (several different translations)
History of the Danes by Saxo Gramaticus (again several different translations)
Medieval Folklore: An Encyclopedia of Myths, Ledgends, Tales, Beliefs, and Customs.
The Customs and Ceremonies of Britain: An Encyclopedia of Living Traditions
The Lost Gods of England by Brian Branston

as well as many of the books sold by Anglo-Saxon Books (available at http://www.asbooks.co.uk/ )

I hope that helps!

Welga!
Swain

[mucgwyrt]

Okay macha, as promised, here are the sources for the tides:

Teutonic Mythology Stallbrass translation, by Jacob Grimm
Germanisches Heidentum bei den Angelsachsen by Ernst Philippson (available online at http://www.literature.at/webinterface/library/ALO-
BOOK_V01?objid=13200&zoom=6
Funk and Wagnall's Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
The Cult of Anglo-Saxon Kingship by Chaney
Heimskringla by Snorri Sturloson (several different translations)
History of the Danes by Saxo Gramaticus (again several different translations)
Medieval Folklore: An Encyclopedia of Myths, Ledgends, Tales, Beliefs, and Customs.
The Customs and Ceremonies of Britain: An Encyclopedia of Living Traditions
The Lost Gods of England by Brian Branston

as well as many of the books sold by Anglo-Saxon Books (available at http://www.asbooks.co.uk/ )

I hope that helps!

Welga!
Swain
Thankyou thankyou thankyou :hugz: :smoochypoo

[Nantonos]

Okay macha, as promised, here are the sources for the tides:

Teutonic Mythology Stallbrass translation, by Jacob Grimm
Germanisches Heidentum bei den Angelsachsen by Ernst Philippson (available online at http://www.literature.at/webinterface/library/ALO-
BOOK_V01?objid=13200&zoom=6
Funk and Wagnall's Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
The Cult of Anglo-Saxon Kingship by Chaney
Heimskringla by Snorri Sturloson (several different translations)
History of the Danes by Saxo Gramaticus (again several different translations)
Medieval Folklore: An Encyclopedia of Myths, Ledgends, Tales, Beliefs, and Customs.
The Customs and Ceremonies of Britain: An Encyclopedia of Living Traditions
The Lost Gods of England by Brian Branston

Its good to have a bibliography of sources used to create the page. Could it be added to the page?

Even better is to have references rather than a bibliography. So, instead of 'the facts here probably came from one of the following books' its 'this fact came from this book p. 123'.


as well as many of the books sold by Anglo-Saxon Books (available at http://www.asbooks.co.uk/ )

Thats a good lead, and helpful for a recommended further reading list, but is actually dangerous as a bibliography addition. It converts a finite list of sources into a... well, much larger one. It effectively says 'well it was in some book someplace' which does not actually increase the value of the bibliography.

[Wodening]

Thanks Nantotos! I was already aware of all of that. However, as that section was researched many years ago, it would be a feat to relocate the exact instances. Instead what is being done is the holy tides are being reresearched and documented so we can have footnotes.

Welga!
Swain

[Nantonos]

Thanks Nantotos! I was already aware of all of that. However, as that section was researched many years ago, it would be a feat to relocate the exact instances. Instead what is being done is the holy tides are being reresearched and documented so we can have footnotes.

Welga!
Swain

Certainly if it is old material then its hard to do. Really only the original author can do it, and then only a certasin number of years from having written it.

Re-researching it and better documenting a new improved writeup is a great way forward. I look forward to reading it.