Interested in Mexican and Voodoo craft

[Crystal_Raye]

I've been watching several documentaries on the Discovery, Science, and National Geographic Channels about Mexican and Voodoo magick and have become very curious about them. Does anyone know a good site or book I could use to find out more?

PS- I know that "Voodoo" isn't the right spelling/pronounciation but I can't remember the correct way. Please don't flame at me.

[fireswimmer]

I was nto aware that Mexico had a large voodoo culture. I know that the National Geographic show Taboo had a portion of it set in Mexico. I thought that the bazzaar they were in was interesting and disturbing. There are always going to be people with superstitions but I never associated voodoo with Mexico. My path is mainly Modern Day Mayan and they are completely unrelated When I think of Mexico I think of its roots being in the Mayan, Aztec, Incan and Toltec cultures.

[TYRRHENUS]

Yeah, also don't know if Voodoo can be found indigenously in Mexico. I think it is usually found in former French colonies, and probably has something to do with particular African ethnic groups which were enslaved. Plenty of brujería though.

[SylverStar]

I think Santeria is the big Mexican path (as far as occult). Yes Voodun was I believe started by slaves of African decent. Though I do think little patches can be found in tribes around the world. As far as finding info I'm sure pulling up Voodun or Voodoo on google will pull up quite a few sites it's just weeding through them. It is very intresting but it can also be dangerous (but I guess so can most magick).

[Felidae]

http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html (http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html)


Though it's very Hoodoo-centric, there is a lot of info on this site, as well as an online catalog and a few other informational areas. It's very big.

[teishabee]

That site on hoodoo is amazing , But I do indeed think that this is not to be messed with. :shaker:

[mexicomagic]

I grew up very close to Mexico. In fact my parents are Mexican. My grandmother practiced a lot of Mexico folk magic. It is a very big mix of traditional Mexican Indian magic and Catholicism. A lot of work is done with the Goddess Mary. I do have a few books to recommend.

Magic from Mexico by Mary Virginia Devine

Magic and Mysteries of Mexico by Lewis Spence

The Magic and Mysteries of Mexico; The Arcane Secrets and Occult Lore of the Ancient Mexicans by Lewis Spence

Magic from Mexico: Folk Magic, Prayers, Spells & Recipes As Taught by the Wise Women of Guadalupe (Llewellyn's World Magic Series) by Mary Virginia Devine

All these are available on amazon.com
Hope this help you as you search you path.

:hugz:

[mexicomagic]

The other nifty thing about where I grew up in Texas is that it is not unusual to see a healers shop in the middle of town. It wasn't necessarily taboo to go there, and many people of importance go to them. I was very excited when I saw that National Geographic did a feature on Mexican healers.

[semi]

I almost wet myself when I read that someone was interested in what I do. I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. Too much time in Just Silly, I guess.

Anyway, I have practiced an African religion called Ifa for a little over ten years. It originated in the Nigeria region with the Yoruba people. It is a beautiful belief system that focuses on building good character and the transformation of your spirit to a more pure and whole being. They believe in one creator who spawned the other orisha (deities or elemental spirits). Each orisha is a facet of the creator. So, for example, Yemeja is the Mother of Oceans, Ogun is the Spirit of Iron, etc. The Ancestors are also very important in this belief system. By interacting with these spirits a person gains wisdom and understanding about the world, the universe, and themselves.

During the slave trade the Yoruba nation was hit hard. As they were scattered through other lands they tried to hold onto their tradition. Unlike many religions, the African path is inclusive rather than exclusive so rather than try to keep other belief systems from "corrupting" their own they incorporated other religions into theirs. Santeria is a syncretization with Christianity. They found similarities between certain saints and certain orisha and made them one being. So now if a person who practices Santeria prays to St. Barbara, they are actually calling upon the orisha Shango. But it still works. By putting a Christian face on their religion, they Africans were able to avoid persecution for not converting. Santeria kept Ifa strong in places like Florida, Cuba, and Mexico. In Brazil it's called Macumbe but it's the same thing.

Voodoo is what Ifa evolved into in places like Haiti and New Orleans. By the way, every single person that I know in the Voodoo community, here in the states and other places, uses the word "voodoo", not voodoun or anything like that. Voodoun and similar versions of the word "voodoo" relate to an aspect of the loa that I won't go into here. No one in the Voodoo community should be offended if you call it Voodoo cuz that's its name. Anyway, loa is the Voodoo word for orisha, spirits, deities, that comes from the Congo people, close neighbors of the Yoruba and also followers of Ifa. Rather than put a Christain face on thay're religion they just absorbed many aspects of other faiths. Voodoo in New Orleans, for example, was not just an African thing but was greatly strengthened and maintained by Native Americans and Irish immigrants(who were also basically slaves). Everyone was welcome and everyone had something to contribute. It also incorporated a lot of French culture because that's who the dominating force in the area was at the time.

Voodoo and Santeria are usually grossly misrepresented on tv and in movies. I have been enraged and offended by so-called documentaries that I've seen for their demeaning, belittling, racist, and ignorant portrayals of this path. It is difficult sometimes for an outside observer to understand what's happening in ceremonies so they document what they think is happening rather than the truth. If you want to learn the reality behind this path, learn from people that practice it. One author to reference is Migene Gonzalez-Whippler though I disagree with some of her ideas. Raul Canizares is another good source. Louis Martinie is a great resource and has created a New Orleans Voodoo tarot deck. An author named Awo Fa'lokun Fatunmbi has written a series of little books on individual orisha that are excellent. There are many things to read, just remember who it's coming from and don't believe everything. Sometimes practitioners will purposely make mistakes or lie just to keep some knowledge secret and safe.

When people think of Voodoo or Santeria it always comes to animal sacrifice. Yes, a lot of people do this because the life force energy is a powerful tool and they believe that by using the animals life in a sacred manner, the animals' spirit becomes sacred and it evolves to a higher state of being. I have never used animal sacrifice because I believe the animal is already sacred so I don't have the right to kill it, even for sacred purposes. And I get the same results as if I had used an animal. If blood is called for in ritual, red palm oil is an acceptable substitute and gaining popularity in the community. It gets the job done same as blood. The only time I've ever offered blood in ritual is when it was my own because I had been drumming for so long and so hard that my hands were bleeding. Also, when they sacrifice an animal it is in a much more painless way than an animal gets slaughtered for the grocery store and the animal is almost always used as a meal afterwards. Someone recently verbally attacked me because she thought I killed animals as part of my religion but she pays to have animals painfully killed every day when she buys meat at the store. Most people just don't see it this way.

And that is my Voodoo/Santeria rant. I would be very very very happy to answer any question about this path either on the threads, Pm, or Chat. Any time, ask me anything. I never try to convert people, I just want to inform people. Thanks for asking and thanks for listening.

[grnpuffer]

thanks for a great post semicivilizedman
And also thanks to mexicomagic for the great book recomendations- I've been looking for some good books in that area.

If you're into this sort of thing, there's a thread in the ceremonial magic section on www.occultforums.com on necromancy by kirk88. It's an attempt to repost the thread from the top again because the site was hacked and all the files were erased. The pictures that he has posted (I think) are from Cuba. I've spent a lot of time in the Caribbean and Central America and can vouch that the Orishas and spirits are very much alive there. To a degree, what he has/will post is similar to some of the things I encountered in my travels. That's not surprising, since much of the material was origianally African.

I like the way that Kirk88 is presenting the information in blocks- it gives me a chance to digest the ideas (as sometimes I'm a bit slow on the uptake : ).
Would you consider doing something similar with your experiences in Ifa?

[semi]

Uh,maybe. I thought I might do a class someday or just start a thread where people can ask questions.

[grnpuffer]

Uh,maybe. I thought I might do a class someday or just start a thread where people can ask questions.

If you're worried about folks being....uh... distressed about the information (e.g., animal work), you might want to host the thread on the occultforums.com site (after you announce it here of course). The people at OF seem to be the sorts who are OK with controversial ideas (and the moderators weed out rif-raff with an iron fist)

best wishes

[misschief]

no wayyyyyyyyyyy. you should do it here. this is a diverse place full of adults (for the most part) they can handle it.

[LizzM26]

http:/www.luckymojo.com offers spells and supplies.

[Merrick]

if you want to read some fiction on Voodoo, read 'Merrick' by Anne Rice. It explains the Voodoo God Papa Legba (sorry if it's not spelt right) and its a most exciting read :hearthear

[semi]

That is spelled right. I've been working a lot with Legba recently and he pops up everywhere lately. Now, here is another place. He's cool.

Yeah, I'll open a Q & A thread on this stuff soon. I moved recently and I'm still getting set up. Soon.

[Verthandi]

Try this: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5319/ayibobo.htm
or this: http://members.aol.com/porchfour/beliefs/vodoun.htm

And one on Santeria for good measure: http://w3.iac.net/~moonweb/Santeria/TOC.html

[ancestral_lee]

a good book ive been leant by a friend is 'the complete idiots guide to voodoo' by shannon r turlington.

it is a very good and simple introduction inot what voodoo is, its history and beleifs etc from a non-insider point of view.

a very good frind of mine is inot voodoo/voodoun (!) and since visiting her baron Samedi followed me home and has set up home in my room where i honour him alongside my own household gods and ancestors.

something i would say is that voodoo isnt a revival thing like many other pagan paths, it has been running for many 1000's of years and is very...um...powerful (for want of a better word) it isnt something to play at and requires serious action. at the moment im not in a position for that which is why iam not too involved and have a simple relationship with the baron 9we both know where we stand and as long as he gets rum and cigars and the occassinal feed he seems happy.

good luck and tread carefully. oh and a new verb you might want to consider using is 'baronise' as in...oops, the car has been baronised (something has bust)

:)

lee

[semi]

Ancestral lee, very cool that you do that with the Baron. The African spirits are so easy to get along with. Some rum, cigars, a little candy sometimes, a knick-knack here and there, and everyone's happy. A word about blood sacrifice though. I have had the orisha and loa ask me for an animal now and then. I told them I can't cuz I won't kill an animal. And they're okay with that. If blood is required for something, red palm oil is an acceptable substitute.

[semi]

I should clarify that when I say "easy to get along with" I mean they're very negotiable as long as you honor them. If you offend them or take them for granted, you'll learn not to. They are immensely powerful and old.

[ancestral_lee]

Ancestral lee, very cool that you do that with the Baron. The African spirits are so easy to get along with. Some rum, cigars, a little candy sometimes, a knick-knack here and there, and everyone's happy. A word about blood sacrifice though. I have had the orisha and loa ask me for an animal now and then. I told them I can't cuz I won't kill an animal. And they're okay with that. If blood is required for something, red palm oil is an acceptable substitute.


ta mate :)

the closest i can get to blood at the moment is a good steak. im aware of the various favorites of the lwa (as one should be) and perhaps inthe future when im able to devote more time i will do more study and may offer blood for them - at the moment its impractical as i live in a shared house in a terrace RSPCA here we come !

with the baron and more recently some other gede, its more of a friendly aquaintance thing - they get pressies and feeding, and very occassionally i ask of them - i guess its squatters rights that keep them here - oh i do alloq the baron to ride me a little at appropriate times, but only after the ground rules are laid ;) last time he seemed rather chuffed and left me a present and made a proper appearance in the mirror - though he did take blood from me in exchange - ho hum

lee

[semi]

But my point is that you don't have to offer blood. If you want to, okay, but you don't have to. And offering your own blood is going a little bit beyond animal sacrifice and giving them a taste of human. I have been told by people more experienced than me that this is not a good idea. The only time I've ever done this was not on purpose but I was drumming in a ritual and played so hard for so long that my hand bled. In this case I fed blood to the drum. It liked it a lot. And that is the problem. If you feed blood to a spirit, they develop a taste for it and ask for it more and more. Please be careful.

[ancestral_lee]

But my point is that you don't have to offer blood. If you want to, okay, but you don't have to. And offering your own blood is going a little bit beyond animal sacrifice and giving them a taste of human. I have been told by people more experienced than me that this is not a good idea. The only time I've ever done this was not on purpose but I was drumming in a ritual and played so hard for so long that my hand bled. In this case I fed blood to the drum. It liked it a lot. And that is the problem. If you feed blood to a spirit, they develop a taste for it and ask for it more and more. Please be careful.


i get you :)

it wasnt that i offerred blood, he took it. it was a small amount and he hast asked for anything more in nearly a year.

its a long story and i dont feel there was anything to be worried about - it was merely a suitable exchange at the time.