Christianity and Witchcraft

[Sabrina]

Greetings friends:

I've been struggling with this concept for a long time now -
the blending of Christianity and witchcraft.
To date only one lady whom I requested an answer as to "how do you accomplish this?" has answered in a way that made some sense to me.

I'm not going to go into the theoretical differences - I think everyone knows what they are...

But has anyone else heard of this combination? And if so - was it explained to you in a way that made sense? Can you see the possibility of this union of belief systems? And if so...how?

I realize that everyone has their own "core" beliefs and I believe that those individual core beliefs is what makes for the individual witchcraft or Pagan practice possible. I don't argue (as some do) that everyone must practice the same thing in order to carry the same *title* (bad word - I know) ...of *witch* or *Wiccan* or *pagan*
but...
The combo of these these particular theories- witchcraft & Christianity seems a bit more than my brain pan can stretch to.....

thoughts on this?
I guess the reason I want to pursue this is simple:
I'm sure some of you have run into this before and I'd like to recieve what answers you've arrived at from a fundamental standpoint.

to me...it's a riddle...and one I've not solved as of yet.

thanks in advance for your help should you choose to tackle this tough topic - eh?

And If this has already been discussed here at Mystic Wicks - Sorry I missed it and please direct me to the archives and I'll catch up.
thanks

[Aelfoak]

Uh oh! I can see a heated discussion coming on!

[barlitone]

It's very possible to combine them, and you'll find some hints and ideas (and testimonials) on the Pagan forum.

I think there is a very basic way that a friend of mine did for awhile. She was working with mostly Celtic dieties, but for a little while, decided to keep much of the ritual but work with Mary (Jesus's mom) every now and then. Even had a small statue on her altar for awhile.

That's a pretty basic blending; there are undoubtedly more ways to do it.

[Aelfoak]

I think Aine of the Fae is the best person to talk to about this.

[Sabrina]

Uh oh! I can see a heated discussion coming on!

Have I posted a *bad* question?
If so............sorry!

oops
Sabrina

[Aelfoak]

Have I posted a *bad* question?
If so............sorry!

oops
Sabrina
No its ok, there's nothing bad about your post but there have been several discussions on this topic and they can get abit heated, i think that there's some threads on this in the 'Paths' section or try using the search for this.

[Aelfoak]

Sabrina

Here's one thread for you to look at:

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=60616

[Vetteman]

*opens bag of popcorn, gets comfortable for this one*

No, I dont think there is such a thing as a 'bad' question. I too wonder about the possibility of believing in God, and also believing in witches, wiccan, and witchcraft. I dont see why you cannot believe that there is one god, and believe that the trees, for example are alive. I am a bit screwed up in the head anyway, but tend to believe everything, animate or not has a reason to be here, and to some extent, has feelings. Isnt that maybe, part of a pagan belief, but I also believe that there is a God who looks over us all.

Cheers (thoughtfully)

Richard :fpipesmok

[Sabrina]

thanks for the help...
I'm gonna go read more and try some search engines, too.

Cheers!

[Zoritsa_Nepenthe]

Ambrose Hawk has some books and articles on combining the two.I just did a quick google search and came up with a big list.Two of the books are something like."Am I Damned?"and "Am I Damned II?".I haven't read any of them,and when I first came upon this spiritual path,tried to merge the two...it didn't last long enough to read much about it...so I can't really say if I'd recommend the books or not.

[Xentor]

I suggest talking to Aine of the Fae.

[BlackMadonna]

A fundamental Christian would say that there is no way to practice witchcraft in Christianity, that Jesus requires you to give up all ways and to follow only him using the bible as your guide, that you can't have it both ways.
I think it is possible to practice certain aspects of witchcraft that don't involve using any form of divination or deity worship (other than Jesus) and still be able to follow the teachings of the bible and still satisfy somewhat the fundamentalist view. Of course you wouldn't call yourself a witch.
Ultimately, does it really matter what you call yourself? Isn't it more important to focus on who you are not what you are?

[Temptation]

Catholics are Christians. Aren't they?
Well the practice of and belief in Witchcraft is very common in countries like
Italy , Spain, France, Ireland. All of them Catholic countries.
People believe in God, Jesus, Mary etc...but at the same time they hold on to
the local superstitions of old. And in many small villages, still today, the local
"witch" is feared, ostracized and used whenever the need arises.

[Kalika]

Greetings friends:

I've been struggling with this concept for a long time now -
the blending of Christianity and witchcraft.
To date only one lady whom I requested an answer as to "how do you accomplish this?" has answered in a way that made some sense to me.

I'm not going to go into the theoretical differences - I think everyone knows what they are...

But has anyone else heard of this combination? And if so - was it explained to you in a way that made sense? Can you see the possibility of this union of belief systems? And if so...how?

I realize that everyone has their own "core" beliefs and I believe that those individual core beliefs is what makes for the individual witchcraft or People practice possible. I don't argue (as some do) that everyone must practice the same thing in order to carry the same *title* (bad word - I know) ...of *witch* or *Wiccan* or *People*
but...
The combo of these these particular theories- witchcraft & Christianity seems a bit more than my brain pan can stretch to.....

thoughts on this?
I guess the reason I want to pursue this is simple:
I'm sure some of you have run into this before and I'd like to recieve what answers you've arrived at from a fundamental standpoint.

to me...it's a riddle...and one I've not solved as of yet.

thanks in advance for your help should you choose to tackle this tough topic - eh?

And If this has already been discussed here at Mystic Wicks - Sorry I missed it and please direct me to the archives and I'll catch up.
thanks


I would STRONGLY recommend that you talk to Aine of the Fae and Morr - they are 2 of the most prominent here on MW that are highly involved with this subject. :)

[Mab]

Have I posted a *bad* question?
If so............sorry!

oops
Sabrina
no, honey, you haven't. It's just a topic of rather heated discussion around here.

*points to self* Christian Witch here, Darling.

There are lots of us floating around. If you do a search, you'll find a lot of threads on the subject, and Aine of the Fae is teaching a class on it in the Circle of Teaching forum.

[Pandoras]

My opinion is that there are different ways to approach this.

I think one can be a Christian and a witch with some success. Witchcraft is not exclusive to paganism. Almost every religion believes in and/or practices in some sort of magic, miracles, etc.

I think one can be Pagan and incorporate Christian figures (i.e. Jesus, Mary, saints, etc.) as a pantheon as one might use any other pantheon (i.e. Greek, Egyptian, etc.)

I don't believe one can be Christian and Pagan because of inherently different theologies. I know many will disagree, but I've read (and studied) the Bible too. This is my opinion and I stand by it. I realize that some groups like practitioners of Santeria, blend Catholicism and paganism, but they don't identify as pagans. They identify as Santeros (and sometimes even just plain Catholic). They have other terms for their beliefs and practices.

Having said what I just said, there are many types of Pagans and many types of Christians. If someone identifies as a Christo-Pagan and has some difficulties with keeping some of the laws of Christianity, he/she is not alone. Christians have similar problems (most don't worship on Saturday; many have statues of the Virgin Mary and crucifixes, etc.) yet they still consider themselves to be Christian.

[Shidge.]

This is how I had always thought of it:

God created us in his image, thus we have a "spark of the divine".

Witchcraft (or whatever you want to call it) is just us using that God-given power in a more conscious way. It is an extentsion of our free will, that we can use for either good or evil. We are not "on Gods level" with these energies, but we can effect change in the world around us by will and faith. I think praying, hoping, fearing, etc are all using this innate power.

I have always had crosses on my altars, and invoked the elements along with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit (not other Gods though).

I think that as long as you dont deify any other Gods or the Elements. For instance, I viewed the elements and other gods as representations that hone and concrete my "will" into what I want it to be/do.

I have moved outside of these "purely Christian" practices since then, but I still say that Christ-Craft is possible and just as effective as any other magic.

[Tobias]

A decent size portion of Christianity is turning more lately to the mystical/magickal roots of their religion. They still hold on quite a bit to fundimentalism, yet are making great strides into accepting divine guidance and assistance.

As one such Christian I learned how to listen for and follow the voice of God. I also learned how to rely on him for many things in my life. Now, well... He's having me learn paganism and study magick from your point of view over here.

Have I stopped being a Christian? Most of the faithful would probably think so if they knew the whole truth about me. I don't go to church anymore, so it doesn't really matter. However, I still follow with all ferverency the same God who I learned about as a Christian.

My concept of who God is has changed a bit though. I think that Diety show itself to us in whatever form we can best understand. I'm not sure if Diety is "One God", or many likeminded spirits who all work toward the same end. Regardless, the aspect of Diety I know very personally is the God of Christianity.

People have argued endlessly as to whether someone can be both pagan and christian. I think my view of Diety qualifies me as Pagan, but really I give up trying to label myself. If I knew Diety as Thor or Odin, no one would have the slightest problem with me bing both Pagan and Asatru, would they? But alas, the definition of "Pagan" is somene who "isn't Christian"...

On the Christian end of things, "God" keeps showing me how he is indeed still the God of the Bible; citing many verses to back up some of these strange new things about him he's teaching me. I can and do still go over to Fundimental Christian sites and blend in, sharing what I can about the nature of God and what it means to follow Him.

Afterall, what is there that God can show me about Himself that causes me to no longer qualify as one of His followers? A deeper knowlage of Him does not make one loose their Christianity -- or, at least it shouldn't. Just because most Christians don't know their God very personally doesn't mean I have to quite calling myself one, does it?

[Rudas Starblaze]

i was raised christian, witchcraft came natural to me at a very young age. im still a christian. in christianity, there's only good, or bad, there's no "in between". if one wants to look for the oldest history book ever written, they need not look any farther then the holy bible. but this i will tell you, it is written that "thou shall have no other gods before me" in the 10 commandments. if one really thinks about it,,,,, Jesus was the greatest witch of all, he preformed miracles that no other has ever done or can ever do. remember this, it was never said that there isnt any other gods, but the God of all gods is the greatest (most powerful for those who dont understand), so really on all this is where we draw our power,,, are we good,,, or are we evil????? all have sinned and fallen short of the glory, but we must try to better ourselves in order to reach a higher standard. so ask yourself, do you use your gift for good or evil? that is the real question.

Rudas Starblaze

[Rudas Starblaze]

and if any of you are wondering, which i know in the far reaches of your minds you are,,,,,yes, i bare the penticale as well as the cross...........................................


Rudas Starblaze

[Lady Avalon]

I run into this all of the time. When you think of what a Christian and a Witch are, there is no way it can be combined.

The Bible teaches, "do not suffer a witch to live".

Those who claim to be "Christian Witches" have a spiritual conflict. To me, a witch is one who walks a particular spiritual path. If the spiritual path is not there, then that person is not a witch. He or she is just a magician.

[Xentor]

I run into this all of the time. When you think of what a Christian and a Witch are, there is no way it can be combined.

The Bible teaches, "do not suffer a witch to live".

Those who claim to be "Christian Witches" have a spiritual conflict. To me, a witch is one who walks a particular spiritual path. If the spiritual path is not there, then that person is not a witch. He or she is just a magician.

I could probably disagree more, but right now I'm not going to try ;)

I'd say witchcraft is just that: a craft. A magician is someone who performs magic. Religion has little to do with either... unless you're talking about Ceremonial Magic, which is quite religious (magic but not witchcraft) and unless you're talking about the first followers of Gardner, who pretty much sought to mix Wicca and witchcraft.

To me the distinction is quite clear: Wicca is a religion, like Catholicism. Witchcraft is a craft which takes knowledge and experimentation, like medicine and herbology. There are christian doctors too, that defy God's power to heal people by healing those people themselves. Why couldn't there be christian witches on the same premise?

[Rudas Starblaze]

THANK YOU XENTOR!!!!!! finally someone besides for my witchy freinds who understands that its more then possible to be a christian and a witch. remember, its all in how you believe, not what you believe. there are what can be called "christian witches" all through out the bible. everyone who has done a miracle in Gods name in the bible is a witch. a witch is a widely used term for anyone who can "do the unimaginable" thats all there is to it. the witch that is spoken of to be killed in the bible are those who do not work for the glory of God or good.

Rudas

[IvyWitch]

I run into this all of the time. When you think of what a Christian and a Witch are, there is no way it can be combined.

The Bible teaches, "do not suffer a witch to live".

Those who claim to be "Christian Witches" have a spiritual conflict. To me, a witch is one who walks a particular spiritual path. If the spiritual path is not there, then that person is not a witch. He or she is just a magician.

Ah, yes, but if one actually studies the bible and doesn't just read it, they would discover that first of all the OT laws and regulations are no longer for Christians, and the admonitions against witchcraft and even homosexuality are simply gross mistranslations, that verse included.

[Rudas Starblaze]

my brother works at AIG (answeres in genesis) and is married to his bosses daughter,,,,,, do you read the bible or study it??????????????????????????? i have studied it and am still doing so because there is much more to it then what is read.

[Xentor]

I read it... 2 or 3 times. Both OT and NT. Not the King James version though. A quite old Dutch translation instead.

[Rudas Starblaze]

yeah, the "queen jimmy" version is the worst version ever written,,, but,,,, it is "pretty" with all the rhymes and stuff!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

[DarkHeart13]

Hey there! Ya know, I used to call myself a Christian Witch but that really clashes. I also have views from Judaism and I belive in The Goddess as well as the Christian God and Jesus. A lot of Christians are judgmental and Wiccans seem more open-minded and kind. Don't get me wrong, I've met a lot of nice Christians, but because I have beliefs other than Christianity I've decided to call myself an Eclectic Wiccan. I believe some people even call themselves Eclectic Christians. If you'd like, check out the Eclectic Teen Wiccans page on my links list and click on the Jada Raine part if you wanna know my "in-depth" Christian/Wicca beliefs.
Blessed Be,
Jada Raine

[Rudas Starblaze]

Jada, i couldnt help but check out your site, curiosity killed my fish (literally!!). well, i must say i am open to all of ones personal beliefs, i do not degrade anyone. *gives you a pat on the back for your creativeness* however, there are things that do contredict each other in your personal discription of your beliefs. just keep in mind that christians didnt apear on the scene until after Jesus, before hand there were only jews, christians use the O T as a history book of sorts while jews dont believe in the N T because they dont believe that Jesus exsisted. your website is very interesting though, i do commend you and suggest that others should atleast look at it!!!!
in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas

[DarkHeart13]

Well thank you for taking the time to look at it. I only created it like 2 days ago....Yeah, I kinda figured the way I posted my beliefs that it would sound contradicting. I just believe in Christianity and because Christians choose to keep the OT in their Bibles I believe we should celebrate the Jewish holidays from the OT. That's pretty much all I get out of Judaism. But again, thanks for checking the site out!
Blessed Be,
Jada Raine

[Aine of the Fae]

*sheesh* I go away for awhile, come back, find this thread and my name is mentioned at least three times!

Yes, it can be done. No, it's not easy. The why and the how of it have to do with each individual.

My spirituality evolves, continually and now I wouldn't call myself a Christian Witch as much as a Christian Mystic, although I would still fall under the witchy umbrella at times, especially when I'm kneeling at an altar praying.....

If you have questions feel free to email me, and check out my Christian Witchcraft class in the Circle of Teaching, which I hope to start working on again soon.

[Pure Ahimsa]

I do not agree with Christian Wicca,
I understand Jewish Wicca, Roma Wicca, etc
But their are to many differeces between Wicca and Christianity. Though I respect everyone's beliefs and views.
Blessed Be

[Aine of the Fae]

I do not agree with Christian Wicca,
I understand Jewish Wicca, Roma Wicca, etc
But their are to many differeces between Wicca and Christianity. Though I respect everyone's beliefs and views.
Blessed Be

First you have to realize that Wicca and Witchcraft are two different things. A Wiccan might be a Witch, but not all Witches are Wiccans.

Secondly, if Christian Wicca is impossible, then so is Jewish Wicca. The Christian scriptures that denounce Witchcraft are drawn from the Jewish tradition, it is in the Jewish Tanakh that you find the most vehement condemnations of witchcraft in the Bible (although meaning and translation are debatable.)

Third, saying "I do not agree with Christian Wicca" contradicts your statement of "I respect everyone's beliefs and views." If you respect everyone's beliefs and views, then you must respect the belief of Christian Wiccans. You can't have it both ways.

And we have to get past this "every path is valid" kick. It causes so many arguments. I can't agree that every path is valid. Is a path that encourages ritual human sacrifice and child molestation valid? I certainly don't think so.

You can't expect everyone else to believe as you do. You don't have to agree with their beliefs. You can say "I don't believe that, and I don't like that you believe that, but I respect your right to believe that." It makes for some very interesting discussions, to say the least!

If I weren't so tired, I'd go on some more... but there are a LOT of threads here at MW about Christian Witchcraft, a good number of them by me. As I said, if you've got questions, ask them. But don't just say "I don't think it's possible" or "I don't agree with it...." Tell us WHY you don't think it's possible. Explain why you don't agree with it. You can disagree and still be civil. And perhaps if you explain why you don't agree or what you don't understand, someone can explain it in a way that changes your mind.

[DarkHeart13]

Hey there.
Uh, I don't remember saying I don't think Christian Witchcraft is possible. I just said it clashes, not the religions, but calling yourself that because it will start arguments. I used to consider myself Christo-Wiccan but I was tired of all the arguments people would start over it so I call myself Eclectic now. I think Christian Witchcraft is possible and for those out there who are stronger than me and who don't give a shit what people think of them, then I applaud them.
I already knew from the beginning Wicca and Witchcraft were two different things. I don't know where you got the idea that I didn't.
"Every path is valid?" I never said that. And I DO respect ALL beliefs, even those I don't agree with because what's right for me may not be right for someone else, but what's right for them may not be right for me.
I think your post was intended for someone else because I certainly did not say the things you're quoting that I did say. Sorry, but you're confusing me...lol
Blessed Be,
Jada Raine

[DarkHeart13]

Okay I see where this was meant for somebody else...lol. I got the email saying it was for me though.....

[WingedTigerChild]

Here's a link that may interest some of you: Click me (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_bibl.htm).

[Xentor]

Okay I see where this was meant for somebody else...lol. I got the email saying it was for me though.....

Off topic:

Yes.... When you create a thread or post in it, you normally are contacted when someone else posts in it as well, whether or not they addressed you specifically.

It's called a thread subscription (not to be confused with paid site subscriptions) and keeps you in touch with the posters in the thread.

You can set your thread subscription preference in your User CP options.
http://www.mysticwicks.com/profile.php?do=editoptions

[Pandoras]

Ah, yes, but if one actually studies the bible and doesn't just read it, they would discover that first of all the OT laws and regulations are no longer for Christians, and the admonitions against witchcraft and even homosexuality are simply gross mistranslations, that verse included.

Slightly :fofftopic

Does that include the Ten Commandments?

[Rudas Starblaze]

Well thank you for taking the time to look at it. I only created it like 2 days ago....Yeah, I kinda figured the way I posted my beliefs that it would sound contradicting. I just believe in Christianity and because Christians choose to keep the OT in their Bibles I believe we should celebrate the Jewish holidays from the OT. That's pretty much all I get out of Judaism. But again, thanks for checking the site out!
Blessed Be,
Jada Raine


hey, no problem!! everyone needs encouragement and critizism in order to become the person they are destined to be. i have high hopes for you, you are very creative. just be mindfull, dont be led into doing something you dont feel is right, and yes the the jorney of life gets harder each day. keep a strong mind and heart and both of them will not mislead you.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[IvyWitch]

Slightly :fofftopic

Does that include the Ten Commandments?

Technically yes.

[Aine of the Fae]

Technically yes.

Not just technically. The Old Testament doesn't apply to Christians, although many insist that the Ten Commandments do. Anyone that uses the Old Testament to argue about morality needs to have it pointed out that Christ died and fulfilled the law, replacing it with a new, better law, Love. Anyone who condemns gays or witches isn't showing love.

[Rudas Starblaze]

Not just technically. The Old Testament doesn't apply to Christians, although many insist that the Ten Commandments do. Anyone that uses the Old Testament to argue about morality needs to have it pointed out that Christ died and fulfilled the law, replacing it with a new, better law, Love. Anyone who condemns gays or witches isn't showing love.


i am impressed by your kowledge of the bible. you chould check out A I G (answeres in genesis) and get even more. they are the leading researchers of the bible, you would be impressed, i am.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[IvyWitch]

Not just technically. The Old Testament doesn't apply to Christians, although many insist that the Ten Commandments do. Anyone that uses the Old Testament to argue about morality needs to have it pointed out that Christ died and fulfilled the law, replacing it with a new, better law, Love. Anyone who condemns gays or witches isn't showing love.

Here's a question for you, how correct is the idea that in the original Hebrew text the Holy Spirit was supposed to be female gendered? I know it's slightly off topic but hey..

[Rudas Starblaze]

Here's a question for you, how correct is the idea that in the original Hebrew text the Holy Spirit was supposed to be female gendered? I know it's slightly off topic but hey..


well, im not the one you were expecting,,,, but who cares. i dont recall reading or hearing anything about the trinity being either sex,,, maybe you should check out A I G and get some correct answeres about the hebrewic text and translations,,,,, and stay away fro the queen jimmy version of the bible, its incorrect. and to those of you who said "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" have read the queen jimmy version, in real translations it "THOU SHALL NOT SUFFER A PRISONER TO LIVE" not witch,,, get it straight before you go making statements that are false.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze