Possession

[jinx1_2]

It's October and after watching a ton of scary movies I've begun to wonder....Do you think it's possible to be possessed? I mean, you see it all the time in horror flicks like Gothica, What Lies Beneath, The Exorcist etc. How many people think this kind of thing can really happen?

[number_the_dead]

I was going to say something about it happening to some one I know...........But I guess you know that already.................

[Tzhebee]

I believe that possesions can happen (happened to me once)...but I'm not sure that I believe them to happen to those extremes....so I'm really kind of on the fence about it.

[Shanti]

yes

[mara]

Possessed by what though..do you mean like spirits or ghost, or do you mean demons like in the exorcist? This subject has always kind of freaked me out...especially after seeing the exorcist when I was 13. Also because I used to go to a church that blamed demon possession for everything- it really used to scare me.

[jinx1_2]

Any kind of possession, be it demonic or ghostly or other. Meaning not being in control of your own body.

[Valnorran]

Well, theoretically anything's possible. Right now, my stance is maybe possession can happen, but I suspect it requires at least some token cooperation on the part of the possessee. I've wondered that what one gets isn't some malevolent spirit or demon from the nighted gulfs but the malevolence that is already inside, inherent to us all, software that came already installed. One could also allow possession by benevolent forces, could one not? Drawing down the moon and things like that.

[mara]

That is a really interesting theory Valnorran..it makes sense.

[semi]

Possession is common in the African path that I practice. It has happened to me twice. The point of it, in Voodoo, Santeria, etc., is to commune with the spirits, usually orisha or loa. The person possessed is generally called the "horse" because the spirit mounts them. It isn't at all frightening.

The first one I worked with is Shango, an orisha associated with fire, and when he arrived it felt like my whole body was on fire but it felt good. Then I stepped out and he mounted. The letting go of control seems to be the scariest part for some people. And it can often be scary for onlookers. The second time it happened to me, again with Shango, he did things while using my body that would have hurt me, such as chugging rum like it was water(I don't drink much liquor), eating the lit end of a cigar(he likes very hot food), and smoking about 12 cigars in a row (I don't smoke). But this happened during a group ritual so people knew what was happening.

It's an honor to be chosen to be a horse for the orisha or loa. It's a way of serving the community that allows the spirit to directly communicate with people, face to face.

[Secrets Flame]

Possession is common in the African path that I practice. It has happened to me twice. The point of it, in Voodoo, Santeria, etc., is to commune with the spirits, usually orisha or loa. The person possessed is generally called the "horse" because the spirit mounts them. It isn't at all frightening.

The first one I worked with is Shango, an orisha associated with fire, and when he arrived it felt like my whole body was on fire but it felt good. Then I stepped out and he mounted. The letting go of control seems to be the scariest part for some people. And it can often be scary for onlookers. The second time it happened to me, again with Shango, he did things while using my body that would have hurt me, such as chugging rum like it was water(I don't drink much liquor), eating the lit end of a cigar(he likes very hot food), and smoking about 12 cigars in a row (I don't smoke). But this happened during a group ritual so people knew what was happening.

It's an honor to be chosen to be a horse for the orisha or loa. It's a way of serving the community that allows the spirit to directly communicate with people, face to face.

And give you stomach, liver, kidney, throat and lung cancer all at the same time too it would seem *raises eyebrow*

[Pandoras]

Do you think it's possible to be possessed?

Honestly, I don't know. I did read The Exorcist when I was in high school and it's pretty scary. My family is Catholic and they generally believe in demonic possession. When I was a kid, my mom gave me a Ouija board one Christmas and my relatives freaked and offered all kinds of warnings about it. I remember as a kid when I first heard the Bloody Mary tale. I never did try it (still won't). I guess I respect the possibility. It's just not something I'm willing to mess with.

[FaerieGothMommy]

Yes, i believe.

[Serendipity]

I really just don't know. I'd prefer it not to happen to me, though. ugh

[cyber_fairie_king]

I have seen it people possessed and it isn't nice. But I have never been the one possessed

[Mouse]

Yes.. It deffently does happen.. Yikes!

[Djinn]

Possession is common in the African path that I practice. It has happened to me twice.

I've heard a lot about possession, but it's never happened to me or anyone I know. Semicivilizedman, would you be willing to share some more of your experiences? For example is it true that horses of the loa don't suffer harm from the things the loa do while they ride?

[Tzhebee]

And give you stomach, liver, kidney, throat and lung cancer all at the same time too it would seem *raises eyebrow*
That appears to be a fairly rude statement. If I am reading it wrong would you please elaborate and explain to me how it is not intended to be rude? :eyebrow:

[mara]

I was just wondering if people believe in possession by demons, and if you're pagan how that would fit in with your belief system. Are most of you saying that the spirits of the dead can possess you, or demons?

[kaosxmage]

Yes! Yes! Yes! I do think possession is a real and wonderful monkey wrench in our existense. K ...too excited, loved the movie by the way ....

--Kaos :woah:

[semi]

Angerona, yes, it is true that the horse suffers no ill effects from the possession. This, of course, is not scientifically possible, yet this is how it works. While riding in your body, the loa or orisha may do things that would normally kill you. For example, certain spirits like rum, lots of rum. A person possessed may chug literally gallons of rum and have no effects from it. No alcohol poisoning, no drunkeness, nothing. The spirit absorbs it all. Even though it's happening to your body it's the orisha or loa that is drinking the rum or eating the lit cigars or whatever. The worst thing I've personally seen that has happened is that the horse is sometimes very tired after possession so they take a nap.

I'd be happy to talk to you anytime, Angerona, if you want to PM me, but also feel free to ask open questions here.

Tz, thank you, but I'm used to people not understanding Santeria and Voodoo. It's very misunderstood. I don't take it personally. I'd like to help people understand it, if I can.

Mara, yes, I believe it is possible to be possessed by demons and the dead. But we would have to discuss what a demon is and what the dead are before I'm able to toss my two cents in. Ask here, if you want, or PM me. I am by no means an authority on this subject but I do have some exoerience.

[Valnorran]

My beliefs are that we carry all the negative/positive, malevolent/benevolent aspects of divinity within us. I think when possession occurs, it is by these interior forces rather than exterior ones.

[savannahrose44]

Yes possesion is very real and from personal experience I can tell you its scarry as all hell. Not a fun way to spend your saturday night. I was stupid enough to play around in matters I had no business playing in and I was reckless and did not take the proper precautions. _taparoo_

[semi]

I agree with Valnorran. The spirits or deities or whatever may exist outside of us in various ways, but I think the key to possession occurs inside of us. It is the opening of an internal door inside our psyche that allows the spirit to come through. In that respect it's a lot like the concept of Jungs' universal archetypes. A possession would be an archetype rising from your subconscious to take the place of your normal persona. This doesn't explain the lack of damage from a possession but it seems like a logical way to look at the possession itself.

I edited this because i originally said that I partially agree with Valnorran. After re-reading his post, I completely agree with him.

[savannahrose44]

And give you stomach, liver, kidney, throat and lung cancer all at the same time too it would seem *raises eyebrow*

What exactly is this supposed to mean? It sounded like you were being rather rude....correct me if i'm wrong. :twitch:

[Valnorran]

This doesn't explain the lack of damage from a possession
Yeah, now that you mention it... I saw an article in no less a source than National Geographic about the religion somewhere in West Africa (I can't remember where) in which the possessed pressed smoking hot knife blades to their tongues and were not burned or rubbed sand in their eyes and not a single tear was produced. The writer freely admitted he had no idea how they did this. My own experience with "possession" was very low-key. It was the the first time I tried a drawing down the moon ritual. I had a sword that was about four feet long and weighed about 6.5 pounds. That doesn't sound like much, but for a four foot sword 6.5 pouns is massive. Historically swords that length ran around 3 to 4.5 pounds. It was a facsimile of the sword used in the Conan movies. It definately requires two hands. After drawing down the moon I was able to swing and manuever that sword with one hand as easily as one would a fishing pole. Now, I'm strong, but I'm not THAT strong.

[Seren_]

I wouldn't discount the possibility...

But of the people I've known who've claimed to have been possessed, I can honestly say that there's nothing that a mental illness or basic attention seeking wouldn't explain away. One guy I knew became obsessed with a particular demon and went a bit crazy. I never knew him at this point, but people who did told me that he showed signs of being able to read people's minds, telekinesis, this kind of thing. He ended up on a psychiatric ward for two years, being treated for drug psychosis after he went at his family with a knife.

One of these same people who told me about this poor guy also claimed to have been possessed - on more than one occasion. On the last occasion, she told me that I had to exorcise her, in between the speaking in tongues, funny voices, expletives and insults a la the Exorcist (although thankfully no pea soup or disturbing episodes with crucifixes). I didn't know whether to humour her, or call an ambulance. She eventually admitted she was making it up.

[savannahrose44]

I wouldn't discount the possibility...

But of the people I've known who've claimed to have been possessed, I can honestly say that there's nothing that a mental illness or basic attention seeking wouldn't explain away. One guy I knew became obsessed with a particular demon and went a bit crazy. I never knew him at this point, but people who did told me that he showed signs of being able to read people's minds, telekinesis, this kind of thing. He ended up on a psychiatric ward for two years, being treated for drug psychosis after he went at his family with a knife.

One of these same people who told me about this poor guy also claimed to have been possessed - on more than one occasion. On the last occasion, she told me that I had to exorcise her, in between the speaking in tongues, funny voices, expletives and insults a la the Exorcist (although thankfully no pea soup or disturbing episodes with crucifixes). I didn't know whether to humour her, or call an ambulance. She eventually admitted she was making it up.

granted there are a lot of nut jobs in this world...I know that possession is possible from first hand experience and it's not something worth bragging about. It resulted from recklessness on my part and on the part of others. It was the coldest blackest time in my life and one I would rather like to forget. But please don't discount the possibility of it due to a few idiots who just wanted attention. In my opinion such a narrow view point is not only unwise, but dangerous. That's all I have to say on that one.

[Seren_]

Savannahrose, don't get me wrong, I don't discount the possibility at all, as I said in my post; I do believe it can happen - in good ways and bad ways (like divine possession in ritual for example, or something a lot more sinister).

Perhaps I should have made it a bit clearer that a lot of the time I think people (those I've known, that is, so based on my experience) are basic nut jobs in one form or another - and I hasten to add I don't include you in that category :). This is one of those things that makes cases of real possession (in the bad sense) so insidious. One common symptom that often goes hand in hand with possession is mental illness, like in the case of that guy I described. A doctor in a mental hospital is unlikely to diagnose possession...and maybe he really was suffering from drug psychosis. But then that could have been a side effect of possession? Or was his possession a delusion caused by the psychosis? :whatgives

[AuroraSilvermist]

No. I believe mental and/or physical abnormalities cause the behavior associated with possession--or the person believes so strongly in the idea of becomming possessed that they manifest the behavior unconsciously. Either that, or people who claim to be possessed are talented frauds. I'm just a hardened skeptic, I guess.

[semi]

I have no physical/mental abnormalities. I didn't strongly believe in the idea of possession until it happened to me. I am not a talented fraud.

If people exhibit possession-like behavior due to a physical/mental abnormality, they are not possessed. It is the result of a physical/mental abnormality.

Strong belief is one of the components of making magic work. For example, taking on a god-form in tantric activities. Strong belief can easily help facilitate possession.

A fraud would not be able to fool someone who has experience with energy work. When a person is genuinely possessed the energy quality COMPLETELY changes. The person possessed is clearly not there anymore and something else rides in the body. The air around the person can feel thicker. And there are sometimes temperature changes, the air becoming very cold or very hot, depending on what's in the person. When a person is possessed by a powerful spirit like an orisha or loa the energy output is massive. There are many frauds out there but there is no fraud talented enough to fake a genuine possession.

[mara]

Mara, yes, I believe it is possible to be possessed by demons and the dead. But we would have to discuss what a demon is and what the dead are before I'm able to toss my two cents in. Ask here, if you want, or PM me. I am by no means an authority on this subject but I do have some exoerience.
My understanding has always been that that demons are fallen angels..I would be interested in learning more about what your definition is.

[AuroraSilvermist]

It's just my opinion, Semi...didn't mean to offend anyone at all. I'm really a hardened skeptic when it comes to things I don't experience for myself or see with my own eyes. I didn't mean to imply that you were abnormal, or a fraud, or anything of the sort.

There are times when I hate being skeptical, too. I'd really like to be more open about the possibilities of certain phenomenon existing. I really DO wish I could see faeries in my garden with something other than my imagination.


Strong belief is one of the components of making magic work. For example, taking on a god-form in tantric activities. Strong belief can easily help facilitate possession.

That's sort of what I said. I do believe that if you believe in something strongly enough, you can manifest it in one form or another. But because I believe strongly that I am possessed, does that mean that there actually IS an entity in residence, or has my belief just made it real TO ME, and in the process invoked enough verisimilitude to make it appear real to others?

[~Elise~]

Possession work is also part of my path, Feri. I have both seen it and experienced it. In both good and bad circumstances. Now, I've not experienced the bad, but I've cleaned up the after effects of people messing with things they shouldn't.

As for the good, I've the different Gods and Goddesses possess a willing candidate in ritual and I have had that happen to me, as well. Very 'interesting' feeling. I'm there, but I'm not. I don't really hear the words I'm speaking, but know that it is not me talking.

Elise

[semi]

Aurora, no problem , I wasn't offended. I agree with you. Some possession-like behavior is attributable to illness or fraud. I just wanted to point out that not all of it can be attributed to these things.

Your second point is tricky. If you believe that you are possessed then you probably aren't because once the spirit enters, you aren't there anymore to believe anything. Your persona has checked out. If your mind is there enough to question whether you are possessed or not, you are probably not possessed. I think that belief can be powerful enough to trigger a possession, but once the possession occurs you are gone and something is in your place. It won't be real to you because you're not there. It should be apparent to others that you have gone and something else is there.

And I'm not argueing, I'm just stating the way I understand it to work. I wish I could state it more clearly. Please feel free to push the issue until I make sense.

Mara, I think demons are negative energy constructs. They may have originated as thought forms who were fed a lot of negativity or they may have originated any number of ways. Some of them have acquired sentience and some act very much on a parasitic-like mentality where they're only concerned with feeding. These energy constructs can attach to your energy and affect it by causing negative emotions like sorrow or rage, they may affect your behavior causing you to tend toward self-destructive activity. Those feelings and activities generate the energy that these constructs feed on. I'm not saying that these things are the ONLY cause for feeling sorrow or self-destructive or whatever, just that that's how they function. I don't believe that they are powerful enough to possess someone. They're just parasites, though some can be pretty nasty.

And again, not argueing with anyone, just saying what I believe.

[semi]

Pearls59 raises an interesting point. Historically, the person possessed is gone and they are completely unaware of what's happening with their body. But lately more and more people are able to maintain awareness while under possession. This is completely changing the rules of the game. I didn't mention it because I didn't want to go off on another topic. But...

A friend of mine who is a very knowledgeable Voodoo priest, been doing it forever, says that these people are turning up more often. They are highly valued because no one has ever been able to tell what it's like to be possessed because your persona is never there for the posession. These people who are able to maintain some awareness, sort of watching from the inside, are able to tell what it's like to be possessed. He thinks the reason for this phenomenon is so we are able to deepen our understanding of the spirits, to establish a closer conscious bond with them.

So, most people are completely gone when they are possessed. A rare few can sit in the back of their head and watch.

[~Elise~]

So, most people are completely gone when they are possessed. A rare few can sit in the back of their head and watch.

Wow--did NOT know I was a rarity. I just thought that was the way it was for everyone. I know of people who are gone when possessed, but that has not been my experience. My teacher at the time didn't say that I'd had a unique experience. He didn't really remark on that part at all.

All the friends I have that practice Voodoo or Santeria are completely gone, as Semicivilized described his experience. I thought because that was the way they were told it was going to -- that is why it happened that way for them. (make any sense?)

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[Pure Ahimsa]

Is it possible to be possessed by a "bad" spirit? Because sometimes I do a thing like "Sleep-walk", the doctors THINK they are night terrors. But it is the worst pain, I am half-asleep will the event is going on within myself. :ack:

[semi]

I didn't go into the maintaining awareness thing when I talked about my own possession cuz I didn't want to bring a new angle into this thread but since it's there now....

I was there a little bit during the first possession and there quite a bit for the second. I'm special, too. Heh heh. It was after the second possession, after a big Voodoo ceremony with a couple hundred people, that one of the priests took me aside and told me about the phenomenon of maintaining awareness during possession. It's popping up all over. Cool stuff.

[semi]

The only possession that I have direct experience with is two instances with one orisha from the Santeria/Ifa pantheon. I've been present at possession by other orisha and the Voodoo loa. Any other comments that I make about possession are just opinions based on what I've read or thought about. The mind is a deep vast place and I'm no expert on what it can do.

tigerlad, can you tell more about what happens to you?

[Pure Ahimsa]

K, the first time it happened, I was REALLY tired and went to sleep without saying my prayers and without my dreamcathcer (whenever I ahve those I never have bad dreams). I woke up several hours later remembering really horrible things that previously went on. I remember rotating, screaming, with the worst pain, I don't knopw why but I had this horrible pain, was looking into my moms eyes but kept on screaming that I wanted to be assured everyone was safe. I felt as if soemthign was inside me. My parents told me I ran into my old room and in a creepy voice said "Help me", then that I looked normal, though I seemed different. I guess I was half-asleep, but It was the worst emtional pain, as if soemone told me that nothing was real, and I kep on seeing numbers everywhere =/
Maybe a possession?
Also, a few days ago, I was not even half-asleep when I felt as if I was moving to my bathroom, though I wasn't moving, though nothing was pushing me, I looked into the mirror and I kept on seeing this "smoke" around me, looking into the mirro, having flashbacks of things and I slashed at the mirror, I think the spirit was in anger, I know it was my subconsious,but It coudl fo been a dream =/ lol
Blessed Be
Maybe I shoudl put away the ouija board? lol
I have contacted "good" spirits, but no bad...
weird

[Pure Ahimsa]

Though I havn't done a saeince in months...and the friends that do it with me aren't getting the samr thing

[savannahrose44]

Savannahrose, don't get me wrong, I don't discount the possibility at all, as I said in my post; I do believe it can happen - in good ways and bad ways (like divine possession in ritual for example, or something a lot more sinister).

Perhaps I should have made it a bit clearer that a lot of the time I think people (those I've known, that is, so based on my experience) are basic nut jobs in one form or another - and I hasten to add I don't include you in that category :). This is one of those things that makes cases of real possession (in the bad sense) so insidious. One common symptom that often goes hand in hand with possession is mental illness, like in the case of that guy I described. A doctor in a mental hospital is unlikely to diagnose possession...and maybe he really was suffering from drug psychosis. But then that could have been a side effect of possession? Or was his possession a delusion caused by the psychosis? :whatgives

I see what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification. And thanks for not including me in the "nutt job" category. :D

[semi]

tigerlad, like I said, I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound like possession to me. It sounds more like parts of you that exist in your subconsciousness are trying to integrate themselves into your consciousness. Everyone has many different facets to who and what they are and a lot of that never comes to the surface. Sometimes it does intrude into consciousness and it seems like a different personality is there for a short time.

If I were you, I'd research ways to identify these parts of myself and work toward incorporating them into my consciousness, finding the place they fit and plugging them in. Carl Jung called this "individuation". Many parts of you make up the whole you, but the parts can be organized to make a more unified you. Shamanic journey work is also good for this sort of thing.

Another thing I'd do is protect myself. Do some sort of cleansing or purification before you go to bed and when you get up in the morning. I like to use sage smudge sticks, but many other people here could offer many alternatives.

I'd also stop screwing with the ouija board. Never liked them.

[Jolixte]

I guess it's possible.

[misschief]

of course it is.. it's how i heal most of the time.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Thank you, Semicilizedman, I do need to get more Sage hehe, um...I havn't gone on any shamanic jounrey lately, maybe I should so an excersice, and find answers from one of my four guides of the otherworlds.
Blessed Be

[charmedkisses1]

In my area I have seen quite a few people. It hurt them more healthwise than anything..... the excorsisms were the most climatic.

[~Elise~]

Maybe I shoudl put away the ouija board? lol
I have contacted "good" spirits, but no bad...
weird

Ummmm. YES, you need to put away the ouija board.

ONLY use it in a formally cast circle if you do use it again. When it is put away--bind it in a black cord 9 times just to make damn good and sure that it is closed down and isn't acting like a portal and just letting any darn thing in.

I don't want to sound over-dramatic, but I have cleaned up too many entities that people brought through using a board thinking they were only 'good'.

My mate thinks I'm a bit paranoid on this count--but I don't think so. The worst one was I had an entity materialize out of smoke in my living room once. It been brought through by someone not knowing what they were doing and it had attached himself to her. It decided to stay behind at my house....BAD idea on its part.

I swear it was just like a darn Hollywood movie--scared the crap outta me, to be honest.

Get yourself to a shaman if you know one--or if not--smudge the heck outta yourself and send whatever is smoky around through the Western Gate and tell it that it can't come back until it has learned its lesson. Don't want to scare you, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

Rick, my mate, has a board that was made for him by Fighting Spirit and is similar to a ouija board. It is encircled by a Rune Circle which helps protect it immensely. Rick has promised to always cast circle before using it. He humors me in that respect, but I do appreciate the fact that he does do that for me. The board is absolutely gorgeous, here are some pics of it if anyone wants to see it : http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=42073&page=26&pp=10

I also have a permanent circle cast around it with a Guardian Dragon guarding it, as well. It is probably overkill, but this was an item that was on my list of Nevers. Never have a ouija board in the house. LOL. My list is getting smaller and smaller all the time. I've used it a couple of times and found it to be accurate.

The point of all this is...be VERY careful out there using a Ouija board--they are not just a toy. they can be a great tool, IF used with the proper precautions. And, after all, THIS is the best time of year to do this work.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[Aedyn]

I do not believe as much in possesion moreso then invoking or evoking. What I believe is that possesion is a term more associated with Christian and other such religions. Although, there are many facts that possesion is indeed true. I watched a documntary on the discovery channel tthis summer, and I believe it was called something along the lines of A HAUTING IN CONNETICUT (spelling) but, I believe that this documentary was pretty truthful, although some parts were infact exaggerated. But we never know! :tub: <-- I want a rubber ducky!

[Ron]

It can and does... just not so often in our concious minds.

[Tobias]

Great topic for Halloween!!


Ok, I've been around Christian exorcisms quite a bit in my life. I haven't had to deal with negative energies too much lately, and it's only been the past couple of years that I've been expanding my theology to include wisdom from other religions. So please excuse if this sounds overtly Christian... :)


I've mostly worked with what we called "demonic oppression". People open up themselves to "demonic influence" through some kind of trickery or victumization on the part of the "demons". This can be a real problem, and is with many people. They allow these demonic forces to drive them and persuade them to do certain things (like drinking, sex, murder...)

I have never thought of Possession as a positive thing that someone would rationally invite upon themself. I think though that we are just dealing with different opinions about the deffinition of the word. What Semicivilizedman has described fits more in the category of Chanelling/Invoking(?) to me. (It is invoking, right? I always get that confused with "evoking") When a person willingly allows a spirit to "use their body" for a period of time -- well, that's anouther mater altogether.

I think of possession as a forced entry and takeover by an unwelcomed spirit. I guess if we are blowing away the whole Xtian concept of good vs evil, then this could lead to some shades of grey. Because I also think there has to be a certain amount of willingness on the part of the possessee. The "demons" have to do a certain amount of convincing the victum that it is in his/her best interest to allow them in.

A good analogy of this is in the movie "The Hulk". Sometimes a meek or timid person might think it would be wothwhile to be able to turn themselves over to a strong spirit in times of need, or like in the movie, when they get angry. It is exactly this kind of "lie" that demons will use to get a foothold into your life. They have to use something to get past your personal defences, so concincing you of the "benefits" of their involvement in your life is one of the main ways.

The other main method used is victumization. Especially for children. When someone is violated by another, their personal defences are blown away and it sets them up as a target. 'Nough said.

As far as inviting a Diety or other spirit in, some Christians do this all the time. They say that "The Holy Spirit is a gentleman" -- meaning that He will never violate your own will or cause you to blank out while present. I've had Him in and around my life for many years. There have been times when it feels like He has almost taken over -- especially during exorcisms or dong other forms of warfare -- but I've never been set aside where I can't remember.

I know Sylvia Browne talks about channeling her spirit guide in some of her books. She never remembers what goes on. I guess different spirits work in different ways.

[semi]

I agree with you, Tobias. In fact I went to this thread just now to say that there seems to be a difference of opinion on the definition of the word "possession". Possession by a divine entity is very different from possession by a demonic entity. I agree that in working with deities, orisha, loa, the term "possession" shouldn't be used because it is more of, if not entirely, an invocation. It's an invitation to the divne spirits for communion. The demonic possession popularized by movies like "the Exorcist" is entirely different than what happens in Santeria and Voodoo. The orisha and loa leave when they're done, there's no need for exorcism. It's a positive experience. Good post, Tobias.

[semi]

Another thing about possession that I just thought of that may be of interest. Not everyone can be possessed (and I'm speaking only about possession/invocation in African religions, the only aspect of possession that I have firsthand knowledge of). It takes a certain psychological structure to experience it, but people in the Santeria/voodoo community differ over what the structure is. It relates to the Jungian concept of ego. On one side of the argument they say that for someone to be possessed they must have a smaller/weaker ego structure than the average person which can't resist the strength of the spirit as it's entering and gets pushed into unconsciousness by the spirit. On the other side they say that the person must have an unusually strong ego to be able to willingly step out and let the spirit in. I believe both points may have validity.

Just thought this might be of interest.

[~Elise~]

I agree with you, Tobias. In fact I went to this thread just now to say that there seems to be a difference of opinion on the definition of the word "possession". Possession by a divine entity is very different from possession by a demonic entity. I agree that in working with deities, orisha, loa, the term "possession" shouldn't be used because it is more of, if not entirely, an invocation. It's an invitation to the divne spirits for communion. The demonic possession popularized by movies like "the Exorcist" is entirely different than what happens in Santeria and Voodoo. The orisha and loa leave when they're done, there's no need for exorcism. It's a positive experience. Good post, Tobias.

It is entirely different in my path, as well. The experience, as described, is very similar to Santeria and Voodoo.

In fact, I am bringing Kali into my co-priestess for my Samhain ritual. She is already working with Her and has an established relationship with Her. Kali is perfect for this time of year. She is a most misunderstood Goddess.

JMO and YMMV.

Elise

[~Elise~]

Another thing about possession that I just thought of that may be of interest. Not everyone can be possessed (and I'm speaking only about possession/invocation in African religions, the only aspect of possession that I have firsthand knowledge of). It takes a certain psychological structure to experience it, but people in the Santeria/voodoo community differ over what the structure is. It relates to the Jungian concept of ego. On one side of the argument they say that for someone to be possessed they must have a smaller/weaker ego structure than the average person which can't resist the strength of the spirit as it's entering and gets pushed into unconsciousness by the spirit. On the other side they say that the person must have an unusually strong ego to be able to willingly step out and let the spirit in. I believe both points may have validity.

Just thought this might be of interest.
Very interesting post, Semicivilized. I can see where both are valid. I would say that I tend to lean towards the latter end myself and think that is why it works well. I've seen, and heard, others be 'rattled' for days afterwards. It is not for everyone.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[savannahrose44]

I agree with you, Tobias. In fact I went to this thread just now to say that there seems to be a difference of opinion on the definition of the word "possession". Possession by a divine entity is very different from possession by a demonic entity. I agree that in working with deities, orisha, loa, the term "possession" shouldn't be used because it is more of, if not entirely, an invocation. It's an invitation to the divne spirits for communion. The demonic possession popularized by movies like "the Exorcist" is entirely different than what happens in Santeria and Voodoo. The orisha and loa leave when they're done, there's no need for exorcism. It's a positive experience. Good post, Tobias.

I agree as well.

[Enigma]

I don't believe in the conventional spirit, demon, satan etc. I am scientifically biased.
Most of you don't know my beliefs so I will explain just a little.

If you break everything physical down to it's most fundamental form it will exist as pure energy.
I believe that if ghosts exist they are simply an echo of their sentient form. I'm not sure if it could have a sentient presence, but perhaps it could.
It is possible I suppose that when something dies it could retain an energy pattern which would reflect it's living form.

The living person is a creature comprised of energy and has a brain which functions using energy.

I believe it could be possible that if a so called *ghosts* came in contact with a person, it's energy pattern could influence the living persons energy pattern in such a way as to influence the way the living person thinks.

If the *ghost* is indeed sentient it may be able to actively affect the persons pattern to the extent of exacting direct influence on him/her. It would be a more direct form of the power of suggestion due to the nature of the *ghost* existence.
It may even be able to hijack the persons thought process. I do not believe that it could enter the living pattern due to the physical nature of the person. But influence perhaps.

Enigma

[rain_fallen_tears]

I do believe very much in possesion and thank the lady and lord for keeping me and my family out of harms way.:)

[Fang of Loki]

Yes, under the right circumstances I'm sure it would be possible.

[Fate No Miko]

It's October and after watching a ton of scary movies I've begun to wonder....Do you think it's possible to be possessed? I mean, you see it all the time in horror flicks like Gothica, What Lies Beneath, The Exorcist etc. How many people think this kind of thing can really happen?

So, now that we have listened to everyone else on the subject. What are your beliefs concerning possession?

[MysticSoul]

It's October and after watching a ton of scary movies I've begun to wonder....Do you think it's possible to be possessed? I mean, you see it all the time in horror flicks like Gothica, What Lies Beneath, The Exorcist etc. How many people think this kind of thing can really happen?

If you do some research on the internet there are alot of stories ofit happening and pics. From what i have read up on there have been over 86 cases of stigmata

[Exloration_La]

My beliefs are that we carry all the negative/positive, malevolent/benevolent aspects of divinity within us. I think when possession occurs, it is by these interior forces rather than exterior ones.

I definitely believe this is true.. but at the same tie I think maybe if someone doesn’t take care of themselves we leave ourselves open just as when we catch a flu or a cold, but I believe we have to let something really fester with allot of neglect for it to reach a point where actually possession takes place. I can’t be too sure in what sense I have seen it in, but I have known a person that had a break down and it was REALLY scary too see a person and think they are under rotationally harmful influences and feel helpless on what to do but try to shake them…. Just imagine someone you know very well and you look into their eyes and they are like blank and glazed over … really freaky just like the movies is what unfortunately I witnessed, but wither way weather you believe or not it’s just a fact that if you don’t take care of yourself deep seated emotional issues and be at peace with things the world your shadows etc, and if you can’t face confront and handle things then you are setting yourself up for trouble. I believe fear is the most dangerous.. I personally can’t understand why people can’t be more logical and why people allow fear to have soo much power over them.

[Flar's Freyja]

I believe that it can happen, but that there is also a fine line between possession and mental illness.

[instinct]

I've witnessed possessions by gods.. with both sides consenting of course.

but as for ghosts and demons? :eyebrow:
no idea.
I guess it stands to reason that it's possible..

[Grey]

Ive seen it in a clandestine fashion... a spirit coming into a girl I knew, speaking, and then leaving... it went on for about fifteen minutes.

[teh_fae]

I do believe that possessions are possible. I've never actually witnessed one, but I heard one once. It was supposably an exorcism, not sure if it was real but it sounded scary.

[taijiya]

It's very hard for me not to be skeptical of claims of possession, channeling, deity aspecting, etc. I'm like a pagan Agent Scully; the weird crap always happens when I'm in the other room or something. :D I've been witness to a few rituals where trance channelings and drawings-down took place, and frankly when the Deity in question is saying things that sync up exactly to the agenda being pushed by the vessel, it's hard not to doubt the veracity of the visitation! And then there was the several-month situation we dealt with with a young woman who was quite convinced she was possessed by a demon and exhibited quite a few interesting symptoms; but she was an (at the time) undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic whose condition was being exacerbated by a prescription she was taking which had known psychotropic side-effects. Ah, good times. :goodgrief

In my Wiccan days I did participate in drawings-down, and while I did certainly feel some interesting things (more akin to an ecstatic state than a leave-taking of my body), and have spoken aloud and composed writings while in that state, I can't say with any certainty what really took place; I know that my experiences don't seem to match up with reports I've heard from others--and that what I've seen and experienced in the presence of others has left me very wary of such claims. I won't state categorically that I don't believe that possession/channeling/aspecting/whateveryouwannacallit is possible; there are far too many reports, across faiths and time and cultures, for me to deny it outright. But it's outside the scope of the easily quantifiable, and lacking sufficient evidence to satisfy me personally, I'll have to remain a somewhat skeptical, if sympathetic, observer at present.

(And knowing me, if a spirit or deity did come round wanting to use me as a vessel, I'd probably just banish it out of reflex! :whatgives )



~*~taijiya~*~

[Hærfest Leah]

Ofcourse, my husband and I saw our 1st possessions while in New Orleans last month, we went to a voodoo ritual by Sally Ann Glassman. Three people including Sally were possessed by Dantur (sp?). It was quite neat and not scary to watch at all. Well except when Dantur makes Sally get out the daggers then she gets a bit wild.

[Cacaoatl]

What really bothers me is that the Catholic Church seems to think they own a monopoly on possesion. Demons can be found in every culture/religion on the planet. And at the same time I think it's not just demons who posess people. I think deities may posess people also.

[TarotCanada]

I think it may also be a result of the difference between invoking a spirit and evoking one and knowing that there is a difference. Not a big believer in channeling etc but have seen a couple of people who were impressive, the impressive ones had all had a Near Death Experience.

Cheryl

[MercysFallen]

I believe in possesion. Not by demons but spirits and the ancestors yes!

Ren

[Auroro]

Possession is simply the inhabitance of an astral body that is not of your own entering your physical body. A lot of people are possessed, though they don't know it because it can be good as well as the bad, though the bad is more more announced and publicised than the good.

[Astara Seague]

thats exactly right....

[Auroro]

thats exactly right....

It looks as though we agree on many things, Astara. (I'm refering to the chldren vs. Adults poll.)

[LittlePerson]

I'm saying yes because my mother raised catholic told me the story of her baby sister's possession. She said that while her mother had her baby sister out one day, someone gave her the evil eye. Catholics are very aware of this. According to my mom, her baby sister then became possessed. She saw her grandmother who spoke in all italian come over. She sat on the stairs and watched as the placed the baby's head over a basin of water and began praying over her in italian and latin and to wash the baby's head with the water. She told me that after seeing that whole process she believed it and said it was very scary indeed. I believe because she led me to believe.

[Auroro]

I'm saying yes because my mother raised catholic told me the story of her baby sister's possession. She said that while her mother had her baby sister out one day, someone gave her the evil eye. Catholics are very aware of this. According to my mom, her baby sister then became possessed. She saw her grandmother who spoke in all italian come over. She sat on the stairs and watched as the placed the baby's head over a basin of water and began praying over her in italian and latin and to wash the baby's head with the water. She told me that after seeing that whole process she believed it and said it was very scary indeed. I believe because she led me to believe.

Your story sounds very interesting. Your mother must have been very frightened. How did this baby sister of your mother's do afterwards?

[LittlePerson]

Just fine apparantly. She went on to grow up into a fine woman. I do know that for a while she had a string of weird boyfriends, musician types but she's cool. She has a wonderful family now, she's about fourty now. Her husband's family has native american blood too. She has one son with him named David and her husband's daughter from before they were married doesn't live with them. I always admired her while growing up for her wonderful fashion sense.

[Auroro]

That is fantastic.

[BlackMagicalCat]

Evil spirits can and will posses you if you let them.They will bring with them depression,dispair,darkness and confusion,and finally your destruction.

This doesnt mean that all depression is demonic however,but it can be.

God ,And Goddess brings with them love,enlightenment,peace and joy and purpose,and hope,and faith.And they will also live inside you if you ask them to and let them.

[StarCraftLia]

.