What is your opinion about Satanists?

[Morning Star]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.

[Druchii]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.


That they are people. :) Nothing more. And I know of two that are pretty cool people in my book.

[Ahautenites]

The first person I ever met of a religion that wasn't Christian was a Satanist. She was my lunch aide in third grade. A very nice, very sweet woman.

The only person I ever had issue with being a Satanist was this guy Chris, and that was only because he lied about it by saying he was a druid. It was the lying to me part that I disagreed with, not the religion.

That being said, I have issues with people who play at being Satanists the way the girls in the Craft played at being Wiccan.

[Muireannach]

(Waits for the game of pin-the-tail-on-the-satanist)

What do I think of them? I am one, and there are many different varieites of Satanists, so I didn't answer as the poll would require specification. It's like asking "What do you think of pagans?" There are so many diverse varieities one cannot answer something so general.

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

Witchcraft is a rejection of Christianity.
They kill babies
Witches cast hexes on people.
etc....

(no offense to those who practice witchcraft, this is merely an example)

Don't forget my FAQ on LaVeyan Satanism, I beleive it is under "similar links" in this thread.

[Shanti]

I would have to ask the individual since just because a title is shared, the deffinition to it is an individual perseption!! So I couldnt comment till I have some basis to form an opinion on!!!

[Morning Star]

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

The point, my dear, is to see how people conceive Satanism - this would of course include misconceptions. I want to know if people have a legitimate understanding of what Satanism is. :)

also...saying that someone is a Satanist and someone is a Pagan are very, very different. Satanism is not nearly as broad a definition no matter how you look at it.

[Shanti]

The point, my dear, is to see how people conceive Satanism - this would of course include misconceptions. I want to know if people have a legitimate understanding of what Satanism is. :)
Understanding still can not be difined without taking it on a individual basis. One Satanist may give one explination of their path and another, a totally differant explination. There are to many variables to a blanket title.
Thats how I see it. :)

[Felidae]

I picked: Satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself, but as I dated a Satanist at one time my opinion is probably biased.

I do think that Satanists have more negative stereotyping and press to overcome than your average Pagan, though.

[cheddarsox]

From the FAQ here and other such info sources, I'd say I agree with 80% of the points of Levey style satanism, I get hung up on the name, because that feels like it's nothing but a button pusher.
From the folks I've know who are Levey Satanists, they pretty much run the gamut of personalities, like any other religion.

The "i wanna scare people" folks who call themselves Satanists are kind of a pain, just like the "I wanna scare people" pagans/witches.

cheddar

[wakywitch]

To each his or her own!

[ToriaMaximus]

The option I would have chosen isn't there but I would have chosen Satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature via worship of the self.

[Morning Star]

Understanding still can not be difined without taking it on a individual basis. One Satanist may give one explination of their path and another, a totally differant explination. There are to many variables to a blanket title.
Thats how I see it. :)

Of course, but you cannot convince me that it is intelligent to choose no idea over a broad idea. Even paganism can be understood as a broad idea and it is nearly impossible to define to the satisfaction of all pagans. However, you cannot get people to agree on what love is or what beauty is - that does not mean they should not be discussed, nor that we should refrain from trying to understand them. We've been given brains - fearing to use them because language struggles to categorize and label a particular group of people or kind of thinking, is still out of the question. One must use their minds to try to understand something, even if it means doing so in a broad context. Furthermore, to fail to do so creates an ignorance and an inability to make judgments all together. For example, under your mindset, "A Satanist is someone who worships Jesus Christ" - may well be all fine and good to you. But even broad concepts have broad contradictions. I only argue this point, because your point of view seems quite popular on this particular site and I've always found such a point of view to be intellectually dishonest. (So don't flame me for calling people stupid. I haven't).

[DamienDeville]

Satanism is like a box of chocalates,you never know whats inside untill you open the box... :alol:
Did I open a can of worms?Theres been alot of interest since I posted My Path.. :bad:

[Shanti]

Of course, but you cannot convince me that it is intelligent to choose no idea over a broad idea. Even paganism can be understood as a broad idea and it is nearly impossible to define to the satisfaction of all pagans. However, you cannot get people to agree on what love is or what beauty is - that does not mean they should not be discussed, nor that we should refrain from trying to understand them. We've been given brains - fearing to use them because language struggles to categorize and label a particular group of people or kind of thinking, is still out of the question. One must use their minds to try to understand something, even if it means doing so in a broad context. Furthermore, to fail to do so creates an ignorance and an inability to make judgments all together. For example, under your mindset, "A Satanist is someone who worships Jesus Christ" - may well be all fine and good to you. But even broad concepts have broad contradictions. I only argue this point, because your point of view seems quite popular on this particular site and I've always found such a point of view to be intellectually dishonest. (So don't flame me for calling people stupid. I haven't). I didnt mean to ruffle your feathers. I was only stating my opinion that I can not form an opinion and as to why. Sorry if my opinion wasnt up to par. :)

Oh and I never flamed anyone or called anyone stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Threase]

I put Satanism is primarily a form of spiritual humanism, but I agree with ToriaMaximus.

[Morning Star]

I didnt mean to ruffle your feathers. I was only stating my opinion that I can not form an opinion and as to why. Sorry if my opinion wasnt up to par. :)

Oh and I never flamed anyone or called anyone stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait. what? I'm confused.

I was just arguing why I disagreed with your point of view and not in a disrespectful or belittling manner. Also, I never said you flamed anyone or called anyone stupid - I was merely clarifying that I believed there was a difference between intellectual dishonesty, which is intellectual, and stupidity which is not intellectual at all. I wanted to make sure that while I was disagreeing with you, that I was not belittling your intelligence, just totally disagreeing with your approach to the issue at hand.

[Shanti]

Wait. what? I'm confused.

I was just arguing why I disagreed with your point of view and not in a disrespectful or belittling manner. Also, I never said you flamed anyone or called anyone stupid - I was merely clarifying that I believed there was a difference between intellectual dishonesty, which is intellectual, and stupidity which is not intellectual at all. I wanted to make sure that while I was disagreeing with you, that I was not belittling your intelligence, just totally disagreeing with your approach to the issue at hand.
I prefer not to argue. I am sorry you disagree with my opinion of not being able to form an opinion. For me, the subject is much to complex to form an opinion as presented in the poll. Intelligence or stupidity or ignorance, to me, is irrelevant in the idea of forming an opinion in this particular topic.
But, thank you for acknowledging my opinion though. I too, acknowledge but also disagree with yours. :)

[Temptation]

I chose Satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself.

I had a lot of misconceptions about this particular path, before I read DamienDeville's take on it yesterday in another thread. After reading it I realised I was mistaken on a lot of things. If asked this before yesterday, I would have probably chosen the "Satanists worship the Devil" option.

Thanx Damien for opening my eyes ;)

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I studied Satanism (LaVeyan Satanism) and I believe it primarily a form of humanism. In the Satanic bible there is a reason why it is called Satanism as opposed to Humanism, but being the excellent student I am...I cant remember. I'll look it up and get back to you. From what I've studied Satanism is about taking control of your own life, not blaming others for your own problems, accepting that you and only you can change your life for the better. Definately not about eating babies :)

[Morning Star]

I studied Satanism (LaVeyan Satanism) and I believe it primarily a form of humanism. In the Satanic bible there is a reason why it is called Satanism as opposed to Humanism, but being the excellent student I am...I cant remember. I'll look it up and get back to you. From what I've studied Satanism is about taking control of your own life, not blaming others for your own problems, accepting that you and only you can change your life for the better. Definately not about eating babies :)

The reason is, LaVey believes that we need a Dogma with which to exercise our imaginations. To deprive ourselves of Dogma or a religious language is unnecessary - and as an excellent psychologist, LaVey realized the benefits of imagination and in many cases fantasy. :) However, the Satanic Bible is very demanding when it comes to keeping ones' feet on the earth - remember, it is primarily a path of self-mastery and indulgence.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Good thing no one clicked the "Black magic" one-since Black Magick is just when you use the colour Black for absorbing and directing positive energy and much other uses-used in colour magick and candle magick.

[semi]

Well if it's not about eating babies, to hell with it.

[Morning Star]

Well if it's not about eating babies, to hell with it.

lmfao ahahahahah That's fantastic! Thank you. I needed a laugh badly today. :)

Hey Semi - can I steal that and put it beneath my banner for a few days? It's too amusing.

[semi]

Sure. Just be nice to people I love, like Shanti. I know you didn't mean anything bad, but one of your posts seemed a little insulting. But I think, when you replied, it came out better. Everything's cool. I love my Shanti, man, nobody messes with my Shanti!!! And if we have to fight about this, then I'll be forced to cry like a little girl. And nobody wants that.
But sure, if you want the stigma of quoting me, go for it.

[morrigan]

I guess it depends on your definition of satanism.. and i will admit until i read a thread in MW i had a mis concieved idea of it.. i guess what i thought of it was how some ppl view themselves when they call themselves a satanist but others have a totally different take on it.. i guess it has changed my ideas on it .. not something i would choose for my path but something i will think of differently.. Blessed Be ~Morrigan~
PS.. just a quick note on the poll.. for the majority of goths, being a goth isnt a fad and it is a lifestyle not a religion.. eg.. I am a goth and I am a witch.. goth= lifestyle witch=religious orientation

[Morning Star]

As to the "goth" aspect in the poll - I was trying to present as many misconceptions as possible in order to find out what misconceptions people had. In no way, or at any point, was I trying to belittle any culture whatsoever - I appologize for not making that clear - but that would have made it a little difficult to evaluate what misconceptions people had and which they didn't. I appologize however it I came off looking down on gothic culture.

[AlAskendir]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.

You really should have included an 'other' option in the poll. I have known three serious Satanists, and none of them would have chosen any of the options you did include.

See, as far as I can tell, Satanists are disapointed with the effects of 'brightness', 'gentleness', and 'flow' in their lives. So any word that "smacks of" any of these, even 'spirituality', would be rejected. To Satanists (at least the ones I have known), 'Power' and 'Force' are not only synonymous, they are exactly the same - - - the only way to get 'Power' is to use 'Force' - - - and I'm not talking the Jedi kind! Once you have 'Power' the only way to apply it is 'Forcefully', and the only way to have any magickal effect is to go for a 'Forceful' magickal effect by directly applying 'Power' wherever (and upon whomever) it will do the most work, with the most efficiency.
'Love', 'gentleness', 'flow', 'harmony', 'society', 'ethics', & 'morals' are just propaganda-delusions perpetrated on those not-in-the-know by those who actually control human society.

From there, they diverge on the best kinds of rituals, what the difference between a 'demon' and a 'devil' is, whether LeVey was a complete fraud......

much like other Pagans about their own beliefs. (lol!)

[karma_lives]

(Waits for the game of pin-the-tail-on-the-satanist)

What do I think of them? I am one, and there are many different varieites of Satanists, so I didn't answer as the poll would require specification. It's like asking "What do you think of pagans?" There are so many diverse varieities one cannot answer something so general.

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

Witchcraft is a rejection of Christianity.
They kill babies
Witches cast hexes on people.
etc....

(no offense to those who practice witchcraft, this is merely an example)

Don't forget my FAQ on LaVeyan Satanism, I beleive it is under "similar links" in this thread.
I won't pin the tail on you! I tend to miss..so it'd be like..pin the tail on the..nose, or the elbow...or some weird place like that. As for me. It depends on the person. There are some people who are christian who are down right naughty and mean and cruel. There are satanists who are very sweet people and then there are those who are of the not so sweet variety.

[Gede]

MM~
I highly respect the Satanic philosophy in that it is truthful, raw and unbiased. I do not see Satanism as a religion as one of it's many admirable traits (at least in my eyes) is that it rejects the notion of institutionalism on the grounds of adhered precepts and governing moral laws which constrict the natural demeanour of humanity's carnal reality - that we are animals with desires and with a will and a way to attain them. It is a philosophy and attitude to Life that regards the moment as essential and the serving of one's Self as mandatory, or rather as the first priority. It is not a scandalous rebellion against the Abrahamic faiths but a psychological pronouncement of Satan as a symbol of freedom, creativity and fulfilment. However there are many sects within the broad notion of Satanism, and like Paganism a simple definition of the word does not necessarily depict the reality for all practitioners.

I voted 'spiritual humanism' because I did not agree with the 'worship' in the other one, as I don't believe Satanists worship anything, idealise, revere and uphold perhaps, but not worship.

Namaste, Gede...

[DamienDeville]

I chose Satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself.

I had a lot of misconceptions about this particular path, before I read DamienDeville's take on it yesterday in another thread. After reading it I realised I was mistaken on a lot of things. If asked this before yesterday, I would have probably chosen the "Satanists worship the Devil" option.

Thanx Damien for opening my eyes ;)
YW Glad I was of some help. :smoochypo

[Morning Star]

From the Satanic Bible, page 53:

"Satanism is the only religion known to man that accepts man as he is, and promotes the rationale of turning a bad thing into a good thing rather than bending over backwards to eliminate the bad thing".

That is where Satanism begins. So that is a good place to start off. I want to show you why you are completely wrong about the nature of force in any of the Satanic religions

From page 81.

"People often mistake compulsion for indulgence, but there is a world of difference between the two". (indulgence is what the Satanist is after, not compulsion) "A compulsion is never created by indulging, but ny not being able to indulge. By making something taboo, it only serves to intensify the desire. Everyone likes to do the things they have been told not to. 'Forbidden fruits are sweetest'.

Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary defines indulgence thusly: 'To give oneself up to; not to restrain or oppose; to give free course to; to gratify by compliance; to yield to'. The dictionary definition of compulsion is: 'The act of compelling or driving by force, physical or moral; constraint of the will; (compulsory, obligartory)'. In other words, indulgence implies choice, whereas compulsion indicates the lack of choice.

When a person has no proper release for his desires they rapidly build up and become compulsions. If everyone had a particular time and place for the purpose of periodically indulging in their personal desires, without fear of embarrassment or reproach, they would be sufficiently released to lead unfrustrated lives in the everyday world."

The Satanic Bible is very strict about force and about never forcing others to do your will when you are able to do it yourself and when they have done you no wrong which would constitute your meddling in their lives. The Satanist understands the only force or power they need is within themselves and they therefore set out to become masters of themselves, such that they will satisfy their lusts by their free indulgence, and will without frustration precede to accomplish their will in the world.

Satanists believe a lot of different things and many have broken off into organizations such as the Church of Lucifer and the Temple of Set, but most "Satanists" agree that force & power are two completely different things. Power is the ability to do work. Force is an act of compulsion and the Satanist ought never be in a position where he cannot accomplish his/her goals through work and therefore be in need of compulsion.

[ap Dafydd]

No strong views, but I tend towards regarding Satanists as just another Christian denomination (good way of shocking the Christians, if nothing else...)

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[arctic splash]

I've never really studied or attempted to learn anything about Satanism.

My preconception -- most likely misconception -- is that it's a lot like Ayn Rand's objectivism.

[Wicker Man]

To be honest, I don't agree with any of those options listed above as far as what Satanism is. To me it's too broad to define in any simple terms, though I will say that it isn't about the worship of evil or the Christian Devil. Satanism, just like any other religion, has many different "denominations" of sorts, such as modern, traditonal or theistic and can't be labeled or pinned down as being one thing. The most popular and often quoted Satanists tend to be of the atheistic train of thought, but there are probably just as many who believe in Satan as some form of deity as well. Satanism is about the individual and it's the individual who defines what Satan is and not any particular group.

I also don't think it's fair to label Satanism as some sort of fad and not a genuine religion, as the same could be (and has been) said about Paganism. Both are equally valid and deserve to be called a religion, regardless of how recent they've been established or how many people are practioners in name only.

[Morning Star]

I've never really studied or attempted to learn anything about Satanism.

My preconception -- most likely misconception -- is that it's a lot like Ayn Rand's objectivism.

Actually that isn't too far off. :) Hense its' appeal.

[Morning Star]

To be honest, I don't agree with any of those options listed above as far as what Satanism is. To me it's too broad to define in any simple terms, though I will say that it isn't about the worship of evil or the Christian Devil. Satanism, just like any other religion, has many different "denominations" of sorts, such as modern, traditonal or theistic and can't be labeled or pinned down as being one thing. The most popular and often quoted Satanists tend to be of the atheistic train of thought, but there are probably just as many who believe in Satan as some form of deity as well. Satanism is about the individual and it's the individual who defines what Satan is and not any particular group.

I also don't think it's fair to label Satanism as some sort of fad and not a genuine religion, as the same could be (and has been) said about Paganism. Both are equally valid and deserve to be called a religion, regardless of how recent they've been established or how many people are practioners in name only.

Read the rest of this thread - should give you some answers to why the poll was done the way it was done. :)

[Sonic Seamus]

I read the Satanic Bible cover to cover several times growing up and Anton LaVey was at the top of my "10 people I'd like to meet" list in high school much to the fright of my teachers. I'd like to read it again with older and wiser eyes.

[Mesektet]

They have always been pretty groovy people to me. Nice to see humanism persued in a different way.

[Rain Gnosis]

Incidentally, I'm constantly plugging this website in Satanism threads as I think it's the best one to learn about Satanism quickly and succinctly. If you don't know anything about LaVeyan Satanism, this is the best site to take a look at.

http://www.satanism101.com/ - go to Essentials and you'll see the principles, statements, and sins of Satanism right there - easy to read and clear and concise. Check out the FAQ in that section too, it's excellent.

[OMmomma]

Just an intuitive guess. The only info I've come across has been on Beliefnet. Spiritual humanism, hedonism, and catering unapologetically to the ego. The 'Satan' tag, gets me though, nothing more than a ruse to laugh at others' ignorances. IMO. Not my cup of tea, but wisdom can be found in the damndest places! Never met anyone who actually called themselves a Satanist.
I always had questions though, maybe someone here could answer.

How important is the 'persona' of Satan to your beliefs? Since you don't actually worship the Christian Devil, is the name and external image of your belief then, just to elicit an emotional response from non-Satanists? That to me, seems so 'Hollywood'. Or is it more an illusionary reference to the fictitous boogey-man that the inquisition threatened the western world with?(just to illustrate the awesome power of the human mind!)

Genuinely curious.

[AlAskendir]

You have a point, and I am glad to be able to receive it. I stand corrected concerning the Satanic religions....after all, all I had knowledge of was the people, and what little of LeVay's book I was able to read (that first 'hate everything' section). You are right in that these three people never tried or spoke of wanting to try to restrain or compel anyone, yet somehow any disagreement with any of them became an in-my-face argument, with never a chance at 'agree to disagree' anywhere thereafter. They may not have intended to compel anyone, but by being unrestrained with their own annoyance, anger, and tempers, they have a compelling effect on everyone they know. Everyone who knows them says they have forceful personalities...but maybe they were that way before they got into Satanism...or maybe it's just something about Reno.

Anyway, thanks for the update!



From the Satanic Bible, page 53:

"Satanism is the only religion known to man that accepts man as he is, and promotes the rationale of turning a bad thing into a good thing rather than bending over backwards to eliminate the bad thing".

That is where Satanism begins. So that is a good place to start off. I want to show you why you are completely wrong about the nature of force in any of the Satanic religions

From page 81.

"People often mistake compulsion for indulgence, but there is a world of difference between the two". (indulgence is what the Satanist is after, not compulsion) "A compulsion is never created by indulging, but ny not being able to indulge. By making something taboo, it only serves to intensify the desire. Everyone likes to do the things they have been told not to. 'Forbidden fruits are sweetest'.

Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary defines indulgence thusly: 'To give oneself up to; not to restrain or oppose; to give free course to; to gratify by compliance; to yield to'. The dictionary definition of compulsion is: 'The act of compelling or driving by force, physical or moral; constraint of the will; (compulsory, obligartory)'. In other words, indulgence implies choice, whereas compulsion indicates the lack of choice.

When a person has no proper release for his desires they rapidly build up and become compulsions. If everyone had a particular time and place for the purpose of periodically indulging in their personal desires, without fear of embarrassment or reproach, they would be sufficiently released to lead unfrustrated lives in the everyday world."

The Satanic Bible is very strict about force and about never forcing others to do your will when you are able to do it yourself and when they have done you no wrong which would constitute your meddling in their lives. The Satanist understands the only force or power they need is within themselves and they therefore set out to become masters of themselves, such that they will satisfy their lusts by their free indulgence, and will without frustration precede to accomplish their will in the world.

Satanists believe a lot of different things and many have broken off into organizations such as the Church of Lucifer and the Temple of Set, but most "Satanists" agree that force & power are two completely different things. Power is the ability to do work. Force is an act of compulsion and the Satanist ought never be in a position where he cannot accomplish his/her goals through work and therefore be in need of compulsion.

[AdNoctum]

How important is the 'persona' of Satan to your beliefs? Since you don't actually worship the Christian Devil, is the name and external image of your belief then, just to elicit an emotional response from non-Satanists? That to me, seems so 'Hollywood'. Or is it more an illusionary reference to the fictitous boogey-man that the inquisition threatened the western world with?(just to illustrate the awesome power of the human mind!)

Genuinely curious.

Atheist/Symbolic Satanists see Satan as the symbol for all that is good about humanity. Traits like greed, lust, and anger are not inherently bad and can even be beneficial in reasonable amounts, but taken to the extreme they can be harmful (as we are all aware). These traits make us who we are, and Satan a symbol for all the positive qualities of mankind.

Theistic Satanists (which is what I am) are not that different from Symbolic Satanists, but we happen to believe Satan exists. How Satan is viewed is largely up to the individual Satanist. The Christian idea is definetly an influence (as is Christianity as a whole), but we happen to interpret him differently. Some Christians believe that questioning their beliefs opens themselves up to Satan's influence. They see this as a bad thing, but we think it is good, because questioning your beliefs either will help them grow stronger or cause you to throw them away in favor of something you truly believe. We see Satan as someone who wants us to think for ourselves and draw our own conclusions, not blindly following whatever orthodoxy is shoved in our faces.

Also, this (//http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/Muse/XianSatanEvil.html) essay by Diane Vera may help answer some of your question.

[Grey]

The satanists Ive met have fallen under two catagories... serious and fads. The fads beliefs Ive ignored, as in six months they are into something else... quite crazy IMO.
The rest seemed to believe along the lines of the post here entitled "luciferianism" *looks for a link*

Here it is: http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=21951&highlight=luciferianism

[morrigen]

PS.. just a quick note on the poll.. for the majority of goths, being a goth isnt a fad and it is a lifestyle not a religion.. eg.. I am a goth and I am a witch.. goth= lifestyle witch=religious orientation

Yep. That's what I wanted to say, as well.

I could not vote on the poll as it seemed to contain a whole bunch of misconceptions that I do not subscribe to.

[Rain Gnosis]

How important is the 'persona' of Satan to your beliefs? Since you don't actually worship the Christian Devil, is the name and external image of your belief then, just to elicit an emotional response from non-Satanists? That to me, seems so 'Hollywood'. Or is it more an illusionary reference to the fictitous boogey-man that the inquisition threatened the western world with?(just to illustrate the awesome power of the human mind!)

Coming from the standpoint of a LaVeyan Satanist, Satan represents many concepts and ideas. And yes, the term is used by some to elicit that response - some use it specifically to weed out those who freak out at the term rather then educating themselves.

Satan also represents "rational self-interest, avoidance of oppressive mentalities, the questioning of all, and a perseverance towards success and human potential". He represents the Satanic statements, principles, and rules, such as indulgence rather then abstinence, vital existence, undefiled wisdom as opposed to self-deceit, etc. etc.

[MoonAnu]

I have no problem with Satanists as a whole. I have a problem with some individuals that claim they are Satanists. I haven't encountered any morons on this site, but in real life, particularily in high school, I met quite a few of them. In certain cases it was a fad in high school. They wanted to be different, they bought a pentagram with Baphomet on it from Spencers or wherever, and tried to scare the "preppies". True satanism is an acceptance of human nature, nature itself, and behavior, whether Laveyan, or theistic Satanism/etc/too many to name, and that I can relate and identify with in my own beliefs.

- Merryck

[Theres]

Anton LaVey was at the top of my "10 people I'd like to meet" list in high school much to the fright of my teachers.
i did, back in the sixties. i only really remember me and my friend walking away laughing at the guy with the weird eyebrows!
the man was a charlatan in my opinion... little more than a spiritual carnie. however, that alone doesn't necessarily invalidate the 'church' he created.

i too found no option in the poll that fit my view, as is usually the case with these polls.
however, such an option would probably be something like... "the unabashed worship of the self, with little higher meaning".
that's great, but holds no value for me whatsoever. my ego stands up just fine without any worshippers! :lol:

[Grey]

It just seems odd... Why would the worshop of ones own nature be called "satanism" As satan means nemisis. It seems more to be saying "worshop of the enemy". I know the few longterm satanists in my area actually do worshop the christian devil *an idea that I dont care to duplicate but find to be a fascinating mental loop* and I cant understand why one would choose to term themselves as such unless 1) that was the case, or 2) They are attempting to scare/intimidate people. If your an objectivist... enjoy. But what does that have to do with satan, or lucifier, or any of the fallen?

[WinterBorn]

Ok it depends.... I can't really choice from the list because it really depends on the Satanic structure of ones beliefs. There are those that worship Lucifer and believe he is good hearted and is the light of the world... There is those who worship the dark lord Satan and believes him to be the opposing of God's will and follow him because they disagree with God... Those that follow the LeVay Satanism which is little to do with Satan or Christianity.... And so on... Some are fools and ignorant angst teens and others are intelligent and understand what Satanism they follow. I find it to be interesting expecially the story of Lucifer but I would never follow Satanism for it is not my path.

[Morning Star]

Ok it depends.... I can't really choice from the list because it really depends on the Satanic structure of ones beliefs. There are those that worship Lucifer and believe he is good hearted and is the light of the world... There is those who worship the dark lord Satan and believes him to be the opposing of God's will and follow him because they disagree with God... Those that follow the LeVay Satanism which is little to do with Satan or Christianity.... And so on... Some are fools and ignorant angst teens and others are intelligent and understand what Satanism they follow. I find it to be interesting expecially the story of Lucifer but I would never follow Satanism for it is not my path.

Very well said. I think you summed that up perfectly. Though, most people who worship Lucifer as a God of Light and/or Light of the world would consider themselves satanists or even luciferian. I think they would fall under a more classical paradigm. :) But who can tell.

Paganism is on the rise and we are all trying to figure out where we fit in; all trying to get our definitions straight. We aren't doing a very good job it seems, but at least we are trying. I would hope that in the future we will see traditions go underground. When a few people develop a system they like, take it underground, don't bother explaining it to anyone - make it your own. Don't let others come in and corrupt what works for you. People who are drawn to the pagan world are often too individualistic for traditions anyway, but we all want to belong to something, to be a part of something. I think in this sense a coven system is terrific. A group of people working together, sharing thier spirituality together. It doesn't even require a name - do what works - define it how you wish, but do not try to force others to recognize it, because they'll just try to redefine it all anyway. Blah - such an interesting issue.

[Nighthawk]

Well, they have their trip and I have mine. I know a few to some degree, without a hassle.

[fifthelement]

Satan is the name for an extreme evil being in the Hebrew/Christian traditions.

Anyone who calls their religion 'Satanism' is setting themselves up for some really bad things no matter how nice they are or how often they say they don't believe in the evil stuff.

What would you think of a fellow who called his religion 'Hitlerism' and then said the Hitler he worshipped was actually a nice guy?

When you call upon a force of evil--- even if you claim it's really a misunderstood good force--- don't be surprised if you get a force of evil.

Our ancient Pagan/Heathen ancestors would reject Satanism just in the same way Christianity does.

[Myzttycal]

That they are people. :) Nothing more. And I know of two that are pretty cool people in my book.


I have to agree, people are people no matter what their Religon.
There have been too many deaths and critisms of people due to their Religon.
There is good and evil in every Religon, I for one just find people I get along with it doesn't matter what they believe or not.
There is enough hate in this world without me adding to it!

Myzty

[AdNoctum]

Satan is the name for an extreme evil being in the Hebrew/Christian traditions.

Partially right. There is no "extreme evil being" in Judaism, as they believe their God creates both good and evil (Isaiah 45:6-7).

Anyone who calls their religion 'Satanism' is setting themselves up for some really bad things no matter how nice they are or how often they say they don't believe in the evil stuff.

What "really bad things" in particular? Your statement sounds just a little bit like a threat.


What would you think of a fellow who called his religion 'Hitlerism' and then said the Hitler he worshipped was actually a nice guy?

I'd think he was strange for worshipping a dead human. If our theoretical "Hitlerist" is not harming others or breaking laws, there's not much one can do about him. If he is, then he must be punished accordingly.


When you call upon a force of evil--- even if you claim it's really a misunderstood good force--- don't be surprised if you get a force of evil.

"Evil" according to whom? I know many Pagans believe that there is no such thing as "evil," so whose idea of evil are you going by?


Our ancient Pagan/Heathen ancestors would reject Satanism just in the same way Christianity does.

Can you prove that?

[omar]

Satan means Advisary. Lucifer means Bringer of Light. The early church needed a way to scare the people into fallowing there way, so they turned the horned god Lucifer into an evil being. They needed a scape goat for there sins. So they selected Lucifer to be the scapegoat. Lucifer did not fall from Gods grace,he was draged down from Gods grace by the human race.

[Fang of Loki]

Satanism is primarly a form of spiritual humanism.

[Morning Star]

Our ancient Pagan/Heathen ancestors would reject Satanism just in the same way Christianity does.

While I will agree that most neo-pagans reject most forms of Satanism, I think it is absurd to image that the ancients would have rejected it. There have been cults following Lucifer, Set, Dionysus & Pan, each sharing much in common with good ol' Satan. I find your reaction to this thread to be more a sign that you have not really studied the matter before you and you do not yet understand what it is that you are rejecting.

[Morning Star]

Satan means Advisary. Lucifer means Bringer of Light. The early church needed a way to scare the people into fallowing there way, so they turned the horned god Lucifer into an evil being. They needed a scape goat for there sins. So they selected Lucifer to be the scapegoat. That is where scapegoat came from. Lucifer did not fall from Gods grace,he was draged down from Gods grace by the human race.

Actually, the Scapegoat came from the slaughtering of a Goat that had ritually taken on the sins of people in ancient times. Lucifer wasn't used until much later.

[Ron]

I myself am an anti-atheist, but humanists I do not consider atheists -- I watch them as they believe in the Great Spirit in all things :) I do find Humanists to be quite excellent people, almost as generous/sometimes more as/than Reformed Christians :) However, I do believe they should consider the G-D question with a second look... But I do repsect their practises, nevertheless.

[xXSpazzXx]

My friend Michael claims to be a satanist and asked me to join with him. He is not like that really though he acts like it sometimes but other times hes not really what he says he is. I guess people have their own little beleives of what it is. To me I would probably say its a person who worships the christian devil only because thats how most of the people who I come in contact who claim to be a satanist says but then again also "Satanism is the worship of dark gods and it praises all things evil" that too. Most of them say its like that. I guess everyone can beleive what they want.

[Morrighan61]

I think there's a big difference between a Satanistic ceremonial magician like Crowley or a revisionist Satanist like LeVey or Aquino, and the guys out there who are doing their Satan Worshipping the nasty way. The first two kinds of Satanists don't bother me at all, but the third?

That's another story.

I don't believe that there's some mass Satanic conspiracy, but I did have relatives in Law Enforcement when I was a kid and I saw some really strange pics. I've seen the remains of dead animals used in sacrifices, that were not Santeria or Voudoun based.

IMHO a "cultist" Satanist has the same right to call themselves that as the more beneign variety. Just as folk Witches, Brujah's etc have a right to the term "Witch." They're worshiping the same Deity albeit in a sick and twisted manner.
A lot of modern Witches and Satanists would like to whitewash their relgiions and pretend that the religions we practice don't have a dark side.

But they DO, and I cannot agree with that.

I've met a few Witches who were working on the negative side. I've personally been invited to join a coven of Satanic Witches who are NOT into just reading the Satanic Bible and celebrating the lustiness of life.

Yes, I declined.

I'm a Goddess loving gal....

But BOTH religions have their "bad seeds" as far as I am concerned.

Predominantly? Wiccans, Pagans, Satanists, and Witches are a decent lot of folks, but as with ANY religion there are people out there who's idea of "worship" includes horrifying practices.

Are Satan-worshipping cultists they any less "Satanistic" than the Satanic Priest who shaves head and who celebrates a black mass every week with a hot willing girl altar and some chanting up the money?

Nope...

"Satan" just isn't a part of my theology personally. I don't care one way or the other who you worship so long as nothing and nobody gets hurt.

Morrighan

[Pure Ahimsa]

(Waits for the game of pin-the-tail-on-the-satanist)

What do I think of them? I am one, and there are many different varieites of Satanists, so I didn't answer as the poll would require specification. It's like asking "What do you think of pagans?" There are so many diverse varieities one cannot answer something so general.

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

Witchcraft is a rejection of Christianity.
They kill babies
Witches cast hexes on people.
etc....

(no offense to those who practice witchcraft, this is merely an example)

Don't forget my FAQ on LaVeyan Satanism, I beleive it is under "similar links" in this thread.


True. As their are many types of everything. :dancy:

[memnoch]

all answers are correct based on the individual satanist. Levay Satanists are all about human nature and self worship, demonic satan worshipers are a mix of anti christians and those who worship all things evil. Its too large of a catagory to single down like that

[FaeFollower]

::shrugs::

Satanism is just a word; it doesn't really mean anything. It depends on the individual person.

[SSanf]

It is my understanding that Satan is in the Christian pantheon of deities. I would presume Satanists are Christians in rebellion.

[Zophael]

When I think of Satanism, I think Church of Satan immediately. However it seems like almost every Satanist I've met has a different set of beliefs. Never judge a Satanist by their label. I find myself a Satanist for believing in the Nine Satanic statements and for being opposed to authoritarian elements of the Abrahamic religions. Oddly I'm not an antichrist. I believe in him as a fellow Satanist.

[AdNoctum]

It is my understanding that Satan is in the Christian pantheon of deities. I would presume Satanists are Christians in rebellion.

That would require that we believe the Christian God is the "true" god, that Jesus is his son and the genuine savior of mankind, but we just prefer the "bad guy."

We don't.

[Lady Khaibit]

I do not personally accept Satanism, because I do not believe in Satan myself. To me Satan is a Christian generalization of "evil". I have been told by many that if it is not Christian it is evil. So am I to believe that Jews and Buddists monks are the embodiment of Satan? Surely not, it's all about how YOU percieve it. I don't accept that theire is only one embodiment of evil.... that's just silly to me. I've studied too many religons to fall into that one-sided trap. So I just choose to repectfully disagree.

Lady K

[AdNoctum]

...I do not believe in Satan myself.

You'd be surprised by how many Satanists don't, either. ;)

[cerunnos]

morning star? is there any relevence in your name that might include a fire inside and lucifer's fall from grace? sorry to go off topic but it's bugging me.....

[Zophael]

morning star? is there any relevence in your name that might include a fire inside and lucifer's fall from grace? sorry to go off topic but it's bugging me.....

Venus is referred to as the morning star because it rises in the small hours just before sunrise. The name Lucifer 'light giver' was given to it because it heralded the dawn.

[Lady Khaibit]

You'd be surprised by how many Satanists don't, either. ;)


I know, isn't it remarkable how so many one-side views and arguments taint the way that other people look at other paths? ;)

[Morning Star]

I know, isn't it remarkable how so many one-side views and arguments taint the way that other people look at other paths? ;)

Satanism has been the most strongly opposed and rigerously persecuted religion over the last 2000 years. Up until recently, a person would have to be out of their mind to admit to being a theistic Satanist and now that there is new satanism, or non-theistic satanism, it's confusing enough the people just blow satanists off the way they do most other strange existences.

I still haven't made up my mind about Satan, but I think of him as being the god of the instincts, of the animal, of the raw, carnal humanness in us all. I prefer the general ideal of Satan to that of the Christian God, or of Christ, but there is something strange about a God who was first simply used by another religion to scare their believers into worshiping their God. Satan is losing its' meaning. Nietzsche said that God was dead. Maybe Satan died too. Who knows? He is an interesting figure though.

[Aeres_Stormcrow]

I have a good friend thats a Satanist, and he is one of the coolest people I know. Honestly, theres a lot in the Satanic Bible that I find to be true, philosophy wise at least. In fact, Nero (my Satanist friend) would most likely consider me a Satanist as well as a Pagan. I've got that whole individuality thing down. Then again, so do many on this board who probably don't consider themselves Satanists in any way.

It,s odd, but I met Nero towards the end of my Christian period, and I never felt more comfortable around anyone than I do him. But I almost always felt in some way threatened around hardcore Christians, almost as if some inner instinct was saying 'watch out for these people, they aren't what they appear to be and will try to change you'. Funny, but the Satanist turned out to be the most logical, funniest, nicest, and most honest (even brutally honest) person I had met up to that point, and yet the Christians still seemed seedy and manipulative.

Really makes ya think.... :idea: _firedevil :clapping: :devil:

[Grey]

*Shakes head* this is all rather confusing to me. The levey and ceremonialists..... when someone says "satanist" thats not what comes to mind. And quite frankly while I respect their religion, and their right to associate themselves with whatever words they find most appropriate, it doesnt make any sense to me.
Worshop of the self is not worshop of satan. Satan, a being like any other greater spirit or diety, is not really part of any single person- though you can allow them into you, or they can possibly even take you.
Satanist- Someone who worshops satan, or lucifer. Someone who is a member of a "satanic church" where they worshop one of the 4 gods therein. While they have philosophical similatarities between all the types mentioned, this is the fundamental differrance.
Satanists worshop satan, as a pagan worshops their god, a hindu theres, or a jew worshops yahweh.
I think these "non-theistic" satanists have just gotten mixed into a term that really isnt suitable for them, that doesnt aptly describe them. And thats a pity as many of them are people who would otherwise be easily accepted, for all the reasons aeres mentioned for instance, if they didnt have that stigma.
Even alot of theistic satanists would if not for the stigma of the word.... and I think thats a major point in their favor. However they are NOT "the most persecuted group of the last 2000 years". Thats like saying wicca has been persecuted for 3000 years.... just doesnt work. During the dark ages most of those persecuted where christians, not satanists. And the idea that they are taking over the world, while quaint, has yet to have any known basis. *whatever-sigh*. They are persecuted to some extent these days because the walk more openly. And *deep sarcasm* Im sorry, what do you expect- satan is the nemisis of jehovah, what do you think "the lord"s followers are going to do? Would you buddy up to your *by deffinition* worst enemy? Just in the name of political correctness? I sure wouldnt.
Satanist cabals or covens can be found if one is careful, openminded, and dilligent. I myself have attended a few rituals put on by "theists". I found that I could not agree with much of the logic they used, but I could see that if I belived it that it would be a faithful religion.

[Zophael]

I have a good friend thats a Satanist, and he is one of the coolest people I know. Honestly, theres a lot in the Satanic Bible that I find to be true, philosophy wise at least. In fact, Nero (my Satanist friend) would most likely consider me a Satanist as well as a Pagan. I've got that whole individuality thing down. Then again, so do many on this board who probably don't consider themselves Satanists in any way.


Many people qualify as Satanists based on the philosophies in the Satanic Bible. In fact many of the beliefs put forth do not diametrically oppose the beliefs of most other religions. Satanism, as LaVey wrote of it, is a philosophy and not truly a religion. Therefore people of many different religions could claim to be Satanists just as people claim to be capitalists or Marxists, etc.

[Aeres_Stormcrow]

They view the 'self' as the highest being because what we call 'gods' are unknowable to them, or merely aspects of order and chaos that have no real sentience (sp). From what I have gotten out of listening to most Satanists speak is that they have no view on a real deity. Its a dark force or another aspect of life for them that they choose to accept. Accepting that we all have a dark side is not unheard of, but so many people will deny to all, and themselves mostly, that they even possess a dark side in any way. I think that this facet of self-denial has the potention to be far more harmful than it at first seems. When I refused to deal with the hatred and inner pain I had built up over many years, I became extremely destructive towards myself, my parents, and even my friends to some degree. I had many mental breakdowns and psychopathic tendancies, but one day I began to realize the hurt I was causing myself and others around me, and the fact that I flat out wanted to kill the people that tormented me. The scary thing was I actually contemplated homocide a few times. I am not proud of this part of my life, but it is true nonetheless. It scared the hell out of me when I realized it, but then I told myself that I had a very dark side with quite a few 'demons' to deal with. I devised ways of dealing with the demons, looked into meditation, and eventually changed my outlook on life as well as my religion.

By coming to terms with my demons, and using what I would now consider magic, I helped turn my life around for the better. By admitting that I had a dark side, I could easily cope with it and bring it under control. I killed no one, and I learned to always look at the sky and the moon and the stars and the forests and lakes to let myself know that whatever demons I had were nothing compared to the awe of existence itself. I could stand in a grove of trees, let out my anger, and in the trees presence be held and embraced by something greater. It was like then, I knew that I had found "God".

When I told Nero about this, he said what I was doing was truly 'Satanic'. By taking this sort of responsibility, I was indulging in my own indivuality. By accepting all sides of life, of my own person, I could further myself in ways that others in self-denial could never dream of. Satanism is part responsibility, part individuality, and part indulgance. And Satan was the appointed symbol of that. Kinda made sense in a way.

[Lupercus]

:veryweird I could not vote as none of the answers reflect my opinion. The closest one is
that Satanism is the worship of the Christian Devil. However, it is far more complicated than that. One thing i do know and will say with conviction is that The Craft/Wicca are two utterly separate spiritual disciplines, having little fundamental similarity.

[rhinoa]

To be honest I know very little about Satanism. It was never something that interested me much like Buddhism. No particular reason, it just never appealed to me personally.

[johenn123]

my cousin is part satanist, its not evil, pwomise

[Aeres_Stormcrow]

But one thing I do want to make clear is that I do not consider myself a 'Satanist' in any way shape or form. Before I had ever even heard of the Satanic Bible I began 'indulging' into myself. I play with action figures, sexually fantasize about myself (odd but true!), cross-dress, constantly quote cartoon shows, and many other taboo practices. It was my life and I would live it how I wanted to. I still believed in the existence of deity, but that did not stop me from living in the here and now. Thats all we can really do anyway, right?

One of my Satanist friends recently called me a Satanist to my face. I felt so uncomfortable with that word. I saw no point in taking my lifestyle, one that I had lived in for years now, and slapping someone elses symbol on it. In fact thats where me and this Satanist had an argument. By using this symbolism I was compromising my individuality since it was not a symbol I myself had affinity with. I asked him why I should call myself a Satanist when my whole philosophy was by me for me and me alone. Shouldn't I call myself a "Aeresist"? Or maybe I should just call myself me. No more labels and symbols. Not for ME at least.

Note: The Key word here is me, and these thoughts and feelings are mine alone. No offense to any Satanist out there. You guys can be Satanists, I'll be an Aeresist. :yayah:

[metalstar316]

(Waits for the game of pin-the-tail-on-the-satanist)

What do I think of them? I am one, and there are many different varieites of Satanists, so I didn't answer as the poll would require specification. It's like asking "What do you think of pagans?" There are so many diverse varieities one cannot answer something so general.

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

Witchcraft is a rejection of Christianity.
They kill babies
Witches cast hexes on people.
etc....

(no offense to those who practice witchcraft, this is merely an example)

Don't forget my FAQ on LaVeyan Satanism, I beleive it is under "similar links" in this thread.

I Second everything about this post!!!!!!

[BlackMagicalCat]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.
i cant vote because i dont know any satanist .I do know the devil and dont like him,he is my mortal enemy and is under my feet.I would never worship someone who couldnt love me,and wouldnt if he could. :steppy: :steppy: :steppy:

[farm girl]

I don't really "know" any Satanists, so I can not speak knowledgably enough about them to form an opinion. There are some on here that seem nice enough though, so they can't be all that bad. :cool:

[the_ancient_one]

I think there is a significant difference between the acceptance of our human condition (evil tendencies) and Satanism. Worship of the evil human condition is NOT satanism, it is what it is: worship of the human condition. The Gods in charge of Chaos, Destruction and Death are not evil because they have no human condition to wrestle against. They merely play a role in the larger scheme of desecration and consecration, destruction and construction, death and rebirth. Respecting them is necessary, the same as respecting beauty and life is necessary. On the contrary, humans ARE evil since they are not gods of demi-gods and they wrestle with debasement, perversion and the human condition. It is very well known that dark entities and power despise humans. This is because humans are so perverse, they have perverted evil itself. They have desecrated what should have never been desecrated, that is, they have humanized and perverted evil. Evil should be pure and unhumanized.

[Modesty]

Satanists believe in themself. They are their own Gods. They value no one higher than themselves. I find that philosophy kind of interesting. It hurts nothing. They are simply doing what everyone else does, except everyone else refuses to admit it. It is much easier to believe in reality then a false Jehova. I have met some very intelligent Satanists, that can keep a good conversation going for hours on end. And it is no disappointment because the conversation is so intelligent.

So what do I think about Satanism? It is a belief just like any other. People have the right to it. And I am no one to judge anyone else. BB, Mod

[Ninjakitten]

Satanists believe in themself. They are their own Gods. They value no one higher than themselves. I find that philosophy kind of interesting. It hurts nothing. They are simply doing what everyone else does, except everyone else refuses to admit it. It is much easier to believe in reality then a false Jehova. I have met some very intelligent Satanists, that can keep a good conversation going for hours on end. And it is no disappointment because the conversation is so intelligent.

So what do I think about Satanism? It is a belief just like any other. People have the right to it. And I am no one to judge anyone else. BB, Mod


And yet you just boasted about someoneelse's god being false. How is that not judging someone else? Everyone judges others whether we like it or not. It becomes bad when we judge others and then do the very thing we're judging (which is even what the Bible says about "judge not" BTW). Besides, perception reality is realative to what one's easily fooled senses tell them. Truth is what it is despite what an easily fooled mind wants to say about it. Not saying that Jehova=truth, but that actual reality is truth, and following the physical senses is a good way of ignoring potential for other things that are beyond senses. According to us, bird feathers don't glow in the dark. To birds that can see in the UV spectrum they do glow. Did this only become true when we humans found a way to percieve it? No.
I have met some friendly and wonderful Satanists as well. I have even befriended some. Wait, isn't that a sign of the Apocalypse? Christians and Satanists being buddies :) I see Satanism (well, LeVeyan at least) as secular humanism with spiritual components and an acknowledgement of human nature in it's purest forms. That is certainly not something to mock, condemn, or belittle, albeit it is medicine that I feel should be taken with caution and in proper doses.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I see Satanism (well, LeVeyan at least) as secular humanism with spiritual components and an acknowledgement of human nature in it's purest forms. That is certainly not something to mock, condemn, or belittle, albeit it is medicine that I feel should be taken with caution and in proper doses.
Yep, and Modesty had it right as far as I can see as an eclectic LaVeyan Satanist. Except with modesty's post I would change the part that says:

easier to believe in reality then a false Jehova

to: easier to belive in reality than what one believes to be a false Jehova.

Just because I dont belive in any deity doesn't mean that I cant respect those who do, sometimes it's hard to remember that though.

[pawnman]

Rejection of morality. It's an attempt to rationalize being completely self-centered, all the time.

[God]

Satan is the master of knots and knowing, satan is actually not an evil being that torments souls and causes negativity to humanity. Satan is actually a kind and caring soul with a very powerful love.

At worse, Satan is a sensitive system of energy with thoughts and emotions, caring and feeling. It is the thoughts of humankind that cause Satan to be kind or mean.

- Timara

[raminda]

Satanism is primarily a form of spiritual humanism.

That option received my vote.

[DracoJesi]

i dont realy have an oppinion, nor do I know much about it but as far as I know they dont usualy go out and cause a bunch of touble or anything nor do I believe in any concept of Christianity, therefor, they dont bother me

[LadyCelt]

what is humanism, and psiritual humanism?

I think "Satanism" depends on if a person belives satan exists. Soem feel its made up by Christians and/or overexagerated by Christians.

I wouldn't deal with any "satanic" practices (as I"m a Chrsitian) but I would still talk to somebody who practices it.


I also think (myeself included) people, particularly chrsitians like me, probably ahve a false and bad perception of satanism and what it is too.

[Karma Chameleon]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.


My opinion of Satanists? I like them... I say that because I used to be one. :hehehehe:

Anyways, there are different types of Satanists. You have the Atheistic Satanists, such as the ones who believe like the Church of Satan who don't believe in any supernatural stuff.

You have the "Theistic Satanists" which do believe in Satan as a god, some of them see Satan in a different light than the Christians view him, usaully based on older pre-Christian versions... but there are those who are just rebelling against Christianity and their version is based on Christianity's and Hollywood's version of Satan.

Here's some interesting websites I've found on Satanism..


http://www.satanism101.com/ (http://www.satanism101.com/)
http://www.jashan.net/sites/ascendancy/ (http://www.jashan.net/sites/ascendancy/)
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/ (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/)

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

My opinion of Satanists? I like them... I say that because I used to be one. :hehehehe:

Anyways, there are different types of Satanists. You have the Atheistic Satanists, such as the ones who believe like the Church of Satan who don't believe in any supernatural stuff.

You have the "Theistic Satanists" which do believe in Satan as a god, some of them see Satan in a different light than the Christians view him, usaully based on older pre-Christian versions... but there are those who are just rebelling against Christianity and their version is based on Christianity's and Hollywood's version of Satan.

Here's some interesting websites I've found on Satanism..


http://www.satanism101.com/ (http://www.satanism101.com/)
http://www.jashan.net/sites/ascendancy/ (http://www.jashan.net/sites/ascendancy/)
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/ (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/)

Which kind did you used to be? I used to be a LaVeyan Satanist (Church of Satan) :smile:

[Karma Chameleon]

Which kind did you used to be? I used to be a LaVeyan Satanist (Church of Satan) :smile:


The same kind as you were. :smoke:

[Kailen]

It's sad that there are so many misconceptions on satanism. Though, the name does attract it. What I wonder though is, which came first, christianity or satanism. Paganism came before christianity and satanism is a form of paganism. So, could christians have named the devil "satan" to cast a bad light on pagan satanists? It wouldn't be so different than them using things to cast a bad light on other pagans, or to detract from pagan festivals etc...

For any that wish to feel offended, please note, it was a thought/question running through my mind. I am not saying that is how it is.

Personally I voted that satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself.

[Cassie]

The reverse christian type that grab all the headlines are just sickos.
I have several friends who are or were Leveyan's (CoS). There is not much in the 9 Satanic principles of the CoS that I would disagree with much, except I feel it is too much worded as a response to Christianity, and could lead some people to be over selfish (although I don't think it was intended to be taken that way).

[LadyCelt]

is/was there a pagan belief or charctat that was the "devil?"


I think Satan was also a Zoroastrian thing, the demon ruler of the grimm underworld I think the name was even Shaitan.

I'd like ot have original texts of the Bible (bout would probably also have to speak that language.) to see what was really written. Taht's the only way to know for sure.


If there were 10 principles that would be very close to trying to rebuke the 10 commandmnets in my opinoin.



Also, is Baphomet (I think maybe also called the horned god) Satan or is that a misconception I have and are there things that use Baphomet in the center of a pentagram?


I could be guilty of heresy too with this so I'd like help to understand. thanks :)

[stephy-sama]

I don't believe in Satan, therefore to me it's just like any other religion that I'm not part of. In other words: it's legitimate in my eyes. They have the freedom to worship whatever they want. I'll never discriminate against them and I'll accept their beliefs as long as it doesn't bring physical harm to anyone.

I've only met two satanists and both were totally awesome people. I voted for the "spiritiual humanism" option because that seems to be what I think of when I think of these people.

[Imbrium]

I have absolutely no problem with satanism as it stands, and while I've run into one or two of the "literal" satanist types, I've found it to be relatively rare. Otherwise, I'm really not sure how to vote. It looks like I'm going to have to think about it for awhile, ...

After all, I'm not a satanist and I know only small bits and pieces about their spiritual views, which seem as varied as everyone elses.

_firedevil ...*goes to meditate on what satanism means to me...*

[~DarkDolphyn~]

I will be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about it as a religion, because it just never appealed to me enough to seek information about it as I genuinely do not believe in the existance of Satan as a diety. I don't mean to offend anyone who happens to be a Satanist here, just answering truthfully.

[KNSimmons]

I was actually rather surprised to find out that I agree with probably 95% of their doctrine and beliefs. I don’t think they are bad people necessarily, but I doubt if I’d ever be able to trust a Satanist.

The two things I do have issues with are:

1) their genetic supremacist “culling” practices, which is used as a justification for condoning human sacrifice.

2) their lack of a unifying code of honor which promotes loyalty between members. Note I’m hot saying they lack being honorable. Just that the have no code between each other. Without this it’s impossible to establish allies, so you constantly have to watch for your own fellow Satanist who may decide it’s to their benefit to backstab you. Basically… there is no loyalty.

[fangedeshana]

I belive there are several types of Satanist. I voted, Satanism is the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself. The first Satanist I met followed this, the second told he didn't worship satan, but merely used him as someone to admire - kind a father figure he looked up and aspire to be like. He said, "Satan encouraged him to decide what he wants, and to get it at whatever means he saw fit.", I didn't want to ask him was "means" he thought were nessisary, but I'm aware he didnt practice witchcraft, or magic though he played about with physic phenomena as a hobby.

[Golliath]

Would you really think someone walking around with angel wings and a hailo is an angel?


Would you think that someone walking around with demon wings and horns is a demon?


80% of people will answer yes to both.

Sad fact but true.


I view satanists as people non the less.
Theres bad people and goodf people no matter what you studdy/ practice/ believe

[DancingCrow3]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.

I was influenced to a great extent by Anton Szandor LaVey. I am not a Satanist, mind you, though I have nothing against them per se', but I do appreciate LaVey's philosophy to a huge extent. Particularly, I appreciate his teaching that hedonism is a good thing. We are physical beings with sensual appetites, after all, and rather than downplay or try to do away with physical longings, and concentrating on the spiritual, it seems to me that this is as fallacous as a person who is totally hedonistic, with no outlook toward spiritual matters. I believe you should strive to achieve a kind of balance between the two, as much as that is possible. I thank LaVey for that influence, if nothing else. I also appreciate his showmanship. Everytime I think aobut him, I am reminded of how he invoked the Element of Air ("Howl, Ye Winds"). He was a grea thinker, and you could appreciate his mind even when you didn't necessarrily agree with him, even if you never agreed with him, in fact.

On the other hand, I think a lot of Satanists are probably the rebellious teenager show-off types, who are more into the cool shtick of "hey, lookey at me I'm a devil worshpper, what'cha think of that?" While some of the I wouldn't want to run into all alone in the dark of night. I believe there probably are some who practice dark magic, and wouldn't be above practising human sacrifice if they thought they could get away with it. And I'm sure there's a lot of illicit drug use and sexual abuse that goes on. Then again, when you get right down to it, most of the things that Satanists do that aren't right, you will find that an even greater percentage of Christians and Muslims do as bad or worse.

The worse thing that I know for a fact about them, as oppossed to rumor and innuendo, is that they come across at times as uncaring and harsh towards outsiders who are in need. Plus, there seems to be the prospect that The Church Of Satan,at least, may be more a money making busness entity than a serious religion. But this is a charge by a rival cult-The Temple Of Set-that I would not hasten to take at face value.

Bottom line-I respect them, so long as they respect me.

[shadowkiss]

i dont really have an opinion about them at all. its not something im drawn to - obviously =p but its not something i judge either. i cant really judge anyone on their chosen paths;
im done with religion - and all deceptive surfaces and titles that can come with it. people are defined by their actions - not titles.

[DianaStormDancer]

to each his own

[Kaija]

I voted humanism.. but.. *shrug* I've met quite a few, and they were very diverse. The majority were very spiritual, and had some very Pagan views.. But, it depends on the specific people.. just like with everything else. I've met Satanists that I could have serious conversations with and Pagans whom I couldn't stand to be in the same room with.. it's all on an individual basis.

[David19]

I voted for spritual humanism but i think each satanist has individual views on who what satan really is so it is also an individual religion. I'm not a satanist but i do feel he exists, probably not as the traditional evil deity but a deity none the less. I sometimes go around to satanist sites because while i was looking for a religion, some of it looked interesting, one site i completely disagree with but its still an interesting religion.

I also think that if you say satan doesn't exist then you're denying the spritual experiences of satanists and i think that sounds arrogant.

But anyway, like i said i'm not a satanist but i do feel he exists and that satanists have every right to worship him, like pagans have every right to worship their own gods, christians/muslims/Jews have a right to worship Yahweh, and whoever else they choose such as Lilith (who i think i'm gonna look into some more) and satanism is not reverse christianity since some sites i've seen like Diane Vera's hardly have anything to do with Christianity. Anyway thats what i think :)

[Covy]

Is there a site like witchvox for Satanists?

[David19]

I'm not sure but there's a site that's run by someone called Diane Vera and i think that is a bit kinda like witchvox but smaller, i think but i'm not sure about others, there may be so maybe any satanists could provide more information.

[Darkdale]

Is there a site like witchvox for Satanists?

No. Not that I know of.

[Karma Chameleon]

Is there a site like witchvox for Satanists?


There used to be, but the site went down a few years ago I think.

[Ninjakitten]

There used to be, but the site went down a few years ago I think.


Went down where? :hehehehe: Sorry. Couldn't resist. The temptation was too great!

[SalemWitchChild]

Everyone seems to have a different opinion about Satanists (sometimes even Satanists don't agree. :) )

How do you see/view Satanism and Satanists, what do you think they believe and so forth.

I know several that I have become friends with. Most I've met simply believe in caring for the self over others. (Ie they wouldn't be good healers) Of course like many pagan beliefs everything changes from person to person. Their are many traditions within Satanism so trying to label all of them as one thing is impossible.

[teh_fae]

I have never met a Satanist, but I have read about their beliefs. They're people like everyone else who have their own beliefs, nothing more to it. They're not horrible or anything of that nature, they are their own true selves and should be accepted.

[WhyAngelsFall]

There are some people who do legitimately use Satanism as a platform of spiritual humanism, as well as the acceptance of human nature, and all it entails, positive and negative. Using “Negative” traits to further the self, such as using one’s greed to gain wealth.

The moral code, unless I’m mistaken, is “Do as thou will shall be the whole of the law.” Which I don’t particularly agree with, since one of the main reasons for society to embrace religion is because it sets a set of ethics, morals, and taboos. That being said, to each their own, and you could say that there are many business people I have met that could then be considered Satanists – They have no moral qualms about destroying things that would inhibit their search for the all mighty dollar.

But then there is the other question, one that much soul searching must be done for: Why use the word “Satanism?” Is it for the same reason as the word “Witch”?, or because that is what you have learned it as, or is it for some other reason entirely?

While I have found some Satanists that I have respected and liked, there have been others that have clung to the word like others that have clung to the word Pagan: The peeing contest reason:



I live in the world of the mentally ill. You see, there is this thing going on in the world of the budding Pagans... and those of us who do not believe have started referring to it as "The Biggest Dragon in the World Peeing Contest." MOST don't believe that they are actual dragons.... in this life. In past lives however....

Platinum dragons. The biggest platinum dragon in the whole world. Bigger then houses. Bigger then cities. They are the reincarnation of the biggest dragon in the whoooooooole world.

But not only do they believe that that they are/were the biggest dragon in the whole world, but that they are the reincarnation of a platinum dragon. The biggest platinum dragon in the whole world.

…Wee…

When they see pictures of dragons online they don't say "Wow, that's cool" they say, "Who was that that they drew a picture of? Do I know them?"

People think I make these stories up. I assure you, I do not. This is a recreation of an actual conversation.. sadly...

Biggest Dragon Number One: "I'm the biggest dragon in the whole world."

Biggest Dragon Number Two: "No, I am! I have outlasted worlds... existences... I have seen the rise and fall of God himself!"

Biggest Dragon Number One: "Lies!! I am the biggest platinum dragon in the whole world! I was a Vampire emperor for one thousand years!!! I saw the birth of Ra!"

Non Biggest Dragon: "Well, why don't we just take it out and measure."

[Estsanatlehi]

I personally don't like a lot of Satanism because it often tends to house a lot more of the human traits of murder, and things that I don't support.

[The Oracle]

Someone very close to me is Wiccan and she (jokingly) calls me a Satanist from time to time. All my life I've been Aethiest, my only belief of any sort is a belief in Science. I've always strived to understand my innerself and to understand human kinda as a whole, and through that understanding I've often been accused of being a master manipulator, well, it was true, and still is to an extent, but these days I dont waste the energy manipulating people, they have nothing I need therefore there's no need to manipulate them.

Still, after reading a post on how people find "their" path, and thinking about being described as a satanist, I thought I would do just a little digging, and without ever having realised it my way of life is almost a complete reflection of LeVayan Satanism:

The nine Satanic statements
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

The eleven Satanic rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Ofcourse presonaly I would swap the word "Satan" for the word "Life", and while not everything above applies to me, the great majority does.

If I am to be a Satanist, to me it represents knowledge and wisom, and understanding of the world you live it and the people that inhabit it, and to understand what motivates people you must have empathy. Knowledge and wisdom lead to understanding and acceptance, somthing that is lacking in the world today.

Still, in the end I'd rather be just plain Aethiest, having people think they can simply pidgeon hole me is unacceptable because I'm more than a set of guidlines.

One thing about the poll and some posts thereafter though, it does realy show that even on a Pagan forum, many people have opinions without knowledge of the subject they are voting on, somehow I find that very sad.

[Cacaoatl]

I think it depends on who you ask. The members of the Church of Satan founded by Anton LeVey in the 1960s seem to be flashy hedonists who don't actually believe in Satan as a deity or entity of any sort. Some Theistic Satanists actually worship Satan as a deity and in fact Satan is the Hebrew name for the Egyptian God Set. Some Christian extremists consider all non-Christian paths Satanic and see Satanic conpiracies everywhere.

[PoisonIvy]

I've never really researched Satanism so I guess I don't have any opinion. If that's watcha believe then......have at it!

[Zhr Morgana]

Also, having a poll that list all the misconceptions of Satanism, and asking someone to pick one, is a little offensive to me. It's like if I had a witchcraft poll and listed:

Witchcraft is a rejection of Christianity.
They kill babies
Witches cast hexes on people.
etc....

(no offense to those who practice witchcraft, this is merely an example)
Actually I think that a witchcraft poll like that should be created at a Xtian or another faith website and see how people vote. I imagine the responses would be very interesting.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

Actually I think that a witchcraft poll like that should be created at a Xtian or another faith website and see how people vote. I imagine the responses would be very interesting.

Very interesting idea!

[Darque]

My Husband is a satanist, for him it is simply about what aligns with the way he thinks and see's the world around him. Having said that he is a beautiful individual who is kind and genuine. Like anything else it is the right of the individual to decide what is best for them. Anyone who can accept, recognise and be proud of who they are rather than trying to conform to something else, is in my opinion is well ahead of the game than others who refuse to accept themselves and try to change what they really are. This goes not only for the pagan community but any community in general, it is such a shame that we are pressured to become something we are truely not . Having said that, there is a difference between someone who is searching and trying to experience different things to someone who is merely doing it because they want to "fit" or prove something.

[The Oracle]

souds like me and your hubby must be twins, it's exactly the same for me. Not a Scorpio aswell by any chance is he? lol

Well said though, thats exactly what it's about.

[Darque]

souds like me and your hubby must be twins, it's exactly the same for me. Not a Scorpio aswell by any chance is he? lol

Well said though, thats exactly what it's about.

LOL, No an Aries, hell of a nice guy most of the time though.....So that must mean you are too :spinnysmi

And TY

[Grey]

But why then do you call yourselves SATANists if there is no satan in your practices? I just dont understand.

[Anyanka]

I have not a clue about Satanism and the practice of it but I voted for Satanism is the worship of dark gods and it praises all things evil because that's what I always believed it was. When I was in high school, I knew someone who practiced this and although he was a nice guy, he did have a negative view on the world and he also worshipped the "dark gods". I know not all people who follow this are "evil" but it's just what I was led to believe.

[AdNoctum]

I have not a clue about Satanism and the practice of it but I voted for Satanism is the worship of dark gods and it praises all things evil because that's what I always believed it was. When I was in high school, I knew someone who practiced this and although he was a nice guy, he did have a negative view on the world and he also worshipped the "dark gods". I know not all people who follow this are "evil" but it's just what I was led to believe.

Well, many Satanists are atheists. So gods don't always factor into the equation.

I find that most Satanists have a better view of the world than many Christians do. Satanists don't believe that the world is inherently evil or misleading, and tainted with sin like many Christian denominations teach. In my experience, most Satanists just accept the world as it is, good and bad.

[The Oracle]

To me, there is no good or evil, there's nothing thats moraly right or wrong, these are restrictions we put on ourselves, WE decide. It's nature vs nurture. In most people nurture holds the upper hand, in my life nature holds the upper hand and the only good/evil/moral struggles in my life are those I impose on myself. Whilst I might see somthing as moraly incorrect it's wrong of me to impose my moral values on others, the same goes for good and evil, simply because I thik of somthing as being an evil act doesn't mean that they see it that way, society tries to put us all in a little enclosed space where they set the boudiries, but I prefere to look deeper than that and to understand the reasons and motivations behind the actions of others.

Also have to say that I dont even believe in Good and Evil, I just use the words because I know most people need those words, but in reality there's no such thing. I believe that if you see good and evil in the world, then you have a lack of understnding of the world, although I do accept that people fit good/evil in with their religous beliefs, but since I have no religion I'm not restricted that way.

LOL Thanks Darque, I believe I am, atleast, I'm always fair a have a great deal of empathy towards others :)

[Darque]

Well, many Satanists are atheists. So gods don't always factor into the equation.

I find that most Satanists have a better view of the world than many Christians do. Satanists don't believe that the world is inherently evil or misleading, and tainted with sin like many Christian denominations teach. In my experience, most Satanists just accept the world as it is, good and bad.

I think that is a fair quote. When I asked my husband about the poll at the beginning of this thread, which one he would consider to be true, he said all of the above. I can see how he would come to this conclusion, all of those things have the term satanist attached to them. The one thing I really like about these people is that they are far more open minded and they use their intelligence to view something from every possible aspect before they make a decision about it ( the ones that are not on stage anyway). I also understand how Satanism and Christianity are seen as the "almighty god and the devil". It is an anology for each of them being on the opposing end of the realm of thought and the action of rational.

[Darque]

But why then do you call yourselves SATANists if there is no satan in your practices? I just dont understand.


The term Satanist has become a generic term.

It was a term coined by Anton LeVay when he formed the Church Of Satan, unfortunately the whole point of the excercise was misunderstood by the media, the genaral public, and mostly the Christain Church. Anton Levay had a wonderful sense of humour, he called it Satanism to prove a point, that his belief structure was anti-christain. A challenge if you like to the christain way of thinking, unfortunately few have bothered to research it properly and have placed a stereotype on the word. Just because someone has labelled something one way, should not mean that the ignorance of others should dictate what that actually means without first finding out for themselves. I guess that was the punch line for LeVay. :bouncysmi

[The High Queen of Faerie]

I don't hold any prejudices. I don't see anything wrong with Satanism; if that path works for some people, that's cool. I don't have a problem with it. To each their own.

[PropheticMonkey]

I think that Satinists dont want to create a new age of chaos and disorder on Earth. They are just accepting of the human impulses that make us a living mortal being. The ability to indulge in ourselves and in material things is something that other creatures dont have. The Satainists recognize and respect this.

Of course there probably are some Satanists who really do want to end everything, but I believe thats a small minority of the Satanist population

[Grey]

The term Satanist has become a generic term.

It was a term coined by Anton LeVay when he formed the Church Of Satan, unfortunately the whole point of the excercise was misunderstood by the media, the genaral public, and mostly the Christain Church. Anton Levay had a wonderful sense of humour, he called it Satanism to prove a point, that his belief structure was anti-christain. A challenge if you like to the christain way of thinking, unfortunately few have bothered to research it properly and have placed a stereotype on the word. Just because someone has labelled something one way, should not mean that the ignorance of others should dictate what that actually means without first finding out for themselves. I guess that was the punch line for LeVay. :bouncysmi

*shakes head* I find it a bit rude. In all seriousness if I founded a religion and called it Nazism because it was supposed to be anti-jew or anti-gay or both then I dont see how I could expect anyone to not link it in their minds with the pre WWII Nazis of germany. Im sorry but it makes no sense to create something new and then name it after something old if there is no connection.

Im not saying Levay worshipped satan, or that his followers do, butwhen you start talking about satanists thats what Ill think of. I have done a bit of research into Levays theology, though not enough to say that I know all the concepts...

For thousands of years Satanism has been ment as a word to describe those who worshipped the fallen angel lucifer. Its been misdirected at other religions before but the idea of bringing it on yourself seems wrong.

But then again so does what happend to the word "thong" in the past couple decades.

[Doodlebug]

I best not state my opinion on Satanists. :nyah:

[Cyzarine]

True Satanism = the worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself.

[Astara Seague]

I dont really know enough about them to say anything all I have ever heard has been bad.. but there has to be good and bad in all things, I guess they have their place, but I do not choose to go there.

[brymble]

Im sorry but it makes no sense to create something new and then name it after something old if there is no connection.

what, you mean like "witchcraft", "druidry", and "paganism"? whoops, well would ya look at that, that shoe fits on the other foot, too.

every satanist i've ever met has had very nice hair. except for the ones that were bald. that's really all i can say about them.

[Whitewolf]

I have absolutely no problem with them. They are people just like everyone else. Everyone has their own path.



-Jessica [aka Whitewolf]

[Acid09]

Satanism doesn't worship anything. Its a mockery of christian morals. This whole "black mass" setting is meant to afferm rejection of religion. Since christianity is the biggest its most easily identifed with. Satanist are about praising free will and egoism, not worship. "Do what thou wilt and that is the whole of the law" I believe this was said by Aleister Crowely. I don't think he was a satanist persay but he did believe and practice many things mordern satanists can identify with. Satan, Lucifer and all other forms of the devil represent the out cast from the flock of sheep. The one who choose to be different and reject the established dogma. Has nothing to do with devil worship or human sacrifice. Many do believe in magick in the occult. That is to say they believe they can harness and utilize subtle energies to manifest changes in their lives. They don't believe in karma. If somebody wrongs you they believe you should get revenge because there is no garuntee that justice will be delivered in any other way. Satanist are also what can be considered nihilism. Your here to live now tommarow you die so do what you desire because if you don't now you may never get a chance. There is no god or devil or good or evil or an after life Nihilism rejects the estblished values of society as false.

Most satanists I've ever meet we rebellious teeny boppers who knew more about buffy the vampire slayer than the left hand path. They were little more than christians in denial who would eventually come to reconsilliation with their christian beliefs in a post-pubesant point in their life. But the real satanists I've meet are not only intelligent they are nothing like mass media portrays them. I do think the left hand path in its many forms is a valid system of thought and "spiritua" or super-natural attainment.

[EternalMaiden]

I haven't read many replies in this thread yet, I will when I have some more time later this afternoon. So if I repeat what someone else has said, I apologize in advance.

I see Satanism as a rejection or morality. I think it begins in a cool place, with reverence for power and appreciation of chaos and how neccessary it seems to be in our lives. The goal is the same, to be happy, but the ways they do it aren't for me.
I wont smite you, because you'll smite me right back.
And it's just a continuance of it....

So to me, it's a very innocent rejection of morals. And they suffer for it, so I am not judging it further.

[teishabee]

Would deoend on which section I was talking about , like oagainsin satanism is more a umbrella term.

[alex_chosen77]

Lucifer wants to get as many souls as he can to fight God. Satanists in a cult are like brothers, they never fight or kill each other, they are peaceful and they only worship satan or other dark gods. That is good and everything but the problem is that wars have lost their intensity and the planet is getting crowded. Wars are part of nature....people are born, they live then they die. War is a way of keeping that delicate balance, but the problem is that Lucifer doesn't want his followers to die he wants them to live, so there has been to much peace around lately, i mean in the last couple thousand years. Death is part of nature just like life is, and peace is a part of nature just like war is. You can't have one without the other. It may sound cruel but if you think about it it's perfectly logical. Lucifer's only sin is that he broke that balance and stopped the slaughtering of ancient times. Those were good in every way, they stimulated commerce, technology, prosperity, empire growth, and kept only the strongest and the healthiest men alive. Nothing wrong with that, don't you agree?

[Acid09]

Dude...You can believe what like but lets try to keep Satanism seperated from Luciferanism.

Lucifer and Satan are too different entities. They were made to personify the same Devil by the Church.

Satan means adversary. It orginates from the ancient hebrew word "Sheitan" (that could be miss spelled). This Hebrew Satan was Gods greatest angel. I think maybe even above Michael, but I could be wrong. he was the tempter of humanity to test their faith. The Christian Church Adopted this figure and around 800 AD the first Brimestone and hell fire sermons were held. These featured satan as the leader of hell and creator of all evil. Satan took on pagan characteristics ie a dragon, pan like figure, or snake. He represented all the was considered heresy -Not of the Church dogma. This was part of a psychological tactic to put the fear of god into people and make them subversive to the Church. Modern Satanist adopted the church satan as a mockery of established values that they believe contradict human nature. They view satan as the embodiment of human nature -all desires and cravings.

People who are satanist do not worship any diety. They aspire to be in satan's likeness according to how they view him and not the Church.
Luciferians are not Satanist.

Lucifer is a Roman God of Venus or the morning star (before the goddess venus). His name means "light-bringer or barer". In this time he had no connection to evil. In fact he was quite the opposite. The morning star represented the the persuit of Light (illumination), not darkness. It was the Church who later gave the ruller of hell an other face to be called by. Also 'Divine Comedy' by Alighieri Dante (1265-1321) and 'Paradise Lost' By John Milton (1608-1675) are examples of books that were pubilshed givening satan the name Lucifer.

Modern Luciferians either worship Lucifer or aspire to be illuminated like lucifer. There is a big difference between the two philosophies of satanism and Luciferianism. Luciferians, like satanists, don't believe in God or the devil or even the church's idea of heaven or hell. Lucifer to Luciferians is not the embodiment of a rebel angel attempting to subvert God's rule by claiming all the souls of humanity. He is the embodiment of a kind of enlightenment that can found through living human nature.

There are similarities to Luciferianism and Satanism but they are not the same. Neither believe in the apocolypes or any other Christian ideology; rather they reject all Christian values. So people can believe what they like just realize Satanism and Luciferianism are two different things and that both *reject* church dogma, not incorperate it.

[Dawa Lhamo]

It orginates from the ancient hebrew word "Sheitan" (that could be miss spelled). lol. I don't know that it's possible to misspell an English transliteration of a Hebrew word. ;) Ok, so it's possible if you just throw in weird consonants, but I was under the impression that there was a lot of latitude in any case.

Anyway, interesting post. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Sage Rainsong]

To be honest I disagree with much of Satanism (the LeVayan not the theistic ones) and I find much of it confusing. However just because I disagree doesn't mean that I can't be friends with one, I would also defend their right to practice whatever they wish.

[Acid09]

To be honest I disagree with much of Satanism (the LeVayan not the theistic ones) and I find much of it confusing. However just because I disagree doesn't mean that I can't be friends with one, I would also defend their right to practice whatever they wish.


I totally agree. Much of satanism doesn't apply to my own interests. But some of it does and real satanists are NOT evil child sacrificing lunatics nor do they believe in any Christian teaching- no end times satan vs. God crap no ruller of all evil or a beneficent God or Jesus Christ. Just people with a counter-christian-culture. An alternative to the mainstream.

Personally I think if anybody wants understand what satanism is really about they should the satanic bible and read it seriously. Granted that is Levay's interpretation, it'll give you a much more accurate picture than the xtian church.

[star_belfire]

One of my best friends is a Satanist, in fact he's like a brother to me.

My opinion on Satanism is the same as my opinion on everything, To each there own.

I know that most people have a very stand offish veiw of Satanists but I don't. I befriend the person not the beliefe.

[Vincent Verthaine]

While I admit I haven't met every Satanist(though I have studied the subject ,read LaVeys crap,hung out and debated theology with a number of them),the ones I do know,while some may be cool to hang out with,I wouldn't turn my back on them,lend them money,or trust them alone with my wife.Plus a lot of them are really racist.They act bad and evil,until they get caught.Then snivle like cowards.Mind you,these ARE THE ONES I'VE MET.Christians tend to be bad enough.You don't need a religion that tries to give you spiritual justification to be an materialistic asshole.But then again ,discordians and satanists don't tend to mix well.We discordians believe in "do as thou wilt shal be the whole of the law." as much as any satanist.We just aknowledge there is the rest of Law of Thelema,which is"love is the law,love under will,every man and woman is a star.Thats why you never read in the newspaper about discordians murdering someone in the name of ERIS.

[Dawa Lhamo]

We just aknowledge there is the rest of Law of Thelema,which is"love is the law,love under will,every man and woman is a star.Thats why you never read in the newspaper about discordians murdering someone in the name of ERIS.Well that, and it would be too predictable. ^_^

[Vincent Verthaine]

Well that, and it would be too predictable. ^_^
Or we're too smart to get caught.With discordians,you never can tell.

[AdNoctum]

This thread is making me wish some of the Satanist regulars were still around. But I guess this former Satanist could address some general points raised.

Satanism is not a rejection of all forms of morality, it is the rejection of ideas that can cause harm but are disguised as morality. Many of Satanism's ideas are derived from the rejection of certain tenents of Christianity (and other religions), but are not the sole basis of them. Satanism rejects the idea that pride, self-interest, indulgence and pleasure are inherently wrong, while at the same time acknowledging that too much of these things can result in negative consequences. However, too much of a positive thing can be bad too, even though many people don't want to acknowledge that. If someone wants to over-indulge in something, they should be allowed to as long as they don't cause unnecessary harm, as they will inevitably reap the consequences of their actions. If they harm someone else in the process, they need to be punished appropriately (which, in Satanic philosophy, may call for Lex Talionis, "an eye for an eye", but most Satanists recognize this is not always appropriate punishment).

Satanism is not a "no rules, do whatever you want" religion.


Reflexive anti-morality isn't independent thinking. After open-minded contemplation of some particular forbidden activity, we might conclude that it is forbidden for a good reason (good in a practical, human-centered sense) after all -- whereas some other activities are forbidden for no good reason. If we conclude that there's a good reason why a particular activity is forbidden, then at least we know why we think it is wrong (or against our own interests), rather than just blindly following the herd.

http://www.theistic-satanism.org/Muse/XianSatanEvil.html


Satanism more easily attracts fakes, poseurs and whackjobs for the same reason some forms of Paganism do: it's rather amorphous and flexible. Satanism's emphasis on individuality means there's a lot of room for personal interpretation, and people use that room as an excuse to include all sorts of idiotic ideas, like racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

And in my personal opinion, LaVey was an idiot and a charlatan. But a few managed to take some of his ideas and make something better out of them.

[Vincent Verthaine]

And in my personal opinion, LaVey was an idiot and a charlatan. But a few managed to take some of his ideas and make something better out of them.
While I agree with you on LaVey(I detest him) I like to point out that he stole a lot of his ideas(thats all he was capable of doing) and his showmanship from the early Discordian Society(POEE and Joshua Norton Cabal),who were active in the Chula Vista area during Lavey's stay there in the early 60's.Hill and Thornley would throw Erisian Masses(drunkin orgys dedicated to Eris) and thats where Lavey may have gotten the idea(Robert Anton Wilson parodies it in the "Illuminatus" trilogy).from one ogf them.(I got this tidbit from Thornley himself,in a 1993 corrospondance with him.He was the one that got me to move to New Orleans.).
Lavey died 2 days before Halloween(not on the 31st like he promised).Idiot.

[AdNoctum]

Ah, very interesting. I unfortunately know little of Discordianism, so I might have to check that out.

[Remia]

I said that 'there are no satanists'. not because they arent out there, but i didnt find a choice that appealed to me, really. The way I see it, it's more about self-indulgence. (in a good way) ... but i sorta clicked without really reading all the choices.

[David19]

Satanism has some very good points and there are defently a lot of great satanists out there (Diane Vera and others on the Church of Azazel), i recently came across a few more theistic satanist sites and they are defently worth looking at (at least, to learn more about it) plus most of them have cool ideas and Theistic satanists (some) have cosmologies i kind of agree with (like Diane Vera's and some others).

The only one i hate is the Joy of Satan, since the owner is a neo-nazi (www.666blacksun.com is her other site) who is incredibly anti-Semitic (blaming all evil on the Jews.

I've never read much of Anton Lavey, but some of the things i've read in the Satanic bible (i don't own it, just read it in the shops) seem cool, especially the part about not harming children or animals (although for some religions, i don't mind animal sacrifice as long as it's not in pain). From what i've read of him, he was Jewish and worked as a forensic photographer, and from all the sick crimes he had to photograph, he concluded that God must be evil and turned to his enemy (a bit like an up yours) which seems impressive, and shows he had a conscience.

[Vincent Verthaine]

I've never read much of Anton Lavey, but some of the things i've read in the Satanic bible (i don't own it, just read it in the shops) seem cool, especially the part about not harming children or animals (although for some religions, i don't mind animal sacrifice as long as it's not in pain). From what i've read of him, he was Jewish and worked as a forensic photographer, and from all the sick crimes he had to photograph, he concluded that God must be evil and turned to his enemy (a bit like an up yours) which seems impressive, and shows he had a conscience.

According to his daughter Zeena,Anton was a pimp who forced female members to service rich members of his church,a child molester,a wife beater,regularly sacrificed animals,a forger,and an all around liar.
So much for practicing what he preaches.

[Cain]

I have no real problem with Satanist thought and ideas (whaddaya expect from a guy who likes Nietzsche) however I certainly wouldn't trust a Satanist, insofar as I trust anyone (which isnt alot).

Alot of them seem intelligent, articulate and charming people, which immediately gets me worried. The ones I've spoken with extensively, they never said anything in particular that worried me, but I just got a feeling...it was like being in verbal conflict half the time, and I left every conversation with the subtle feeling I'd been robbed.

But, like I said, no problem with the ideas behind it. I find those actually interesting and worth the time to read.

[Benvarry]

I said that it was a fad, just because I've never met a self-described satanist in real life who was following anything else.

"I'm a satanist! And a necromancer! And a Wicca!!" *huge pentacle sweatshirt*

When I meet someone who knows what they're talking about (outside of the online world), I'll change my answer!

[Meabh23]

I don't much about Satanists or Satanism so I certainly don't have an idea.

I do feel that they may be misunderstood, but it would go with the territory since they identify with what has been known as the "bad guy" in western history.

[WiccanGoddess]

I say let them worship and believe what they will. Religous rite. sure, I don't agree with a lot of the religion...but, hell, i can say the same about Christianity and Judaism! I don't believe in Hell or Satan or El Diablo or whatever he is called these days, so to me, Satanists...they're worshipping the dirt beneath the ground.

[magick_faerie]

to be honest i dont know a lot about satanism...im not sure what they strand for or believe in, it would be intresting to learn though...

[David19]

There's a lot of different beliefs in satanism, there's no 'one right satanism', i think some of them seem cool, (like Diane Vera, etc) although there are a few that i hate (mostly anti-Semitic, neo-nazi ones such as the Joy of satan). I believe that satan exists, probably not as creater of all evil but a god (i see that Yahweh and him probably don't get on too well, since i believe that gods are individuals and may not get on with each other).

One of the things i don't like about some pagans and wiccans, is the fact that they can believe in every god from any culture but when it comes to Yahweh and satan, suddenly they can't exist, which sounds hypocritical to me.

[Epona44]

Satanism is an offshoot of Christianity, just like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventists, and the like.

The Christian God and the Christian Devil are both mythological constructs that illustrate ways to understand forces in the universe, similar to chaos and order, matter and energy, Yin and Yang.

People attach the ideas of good and bad to those forces because people have an innate need to see the order in the universe.

There is no criticism in this statement, I am merely expressing an opinion.

I think people have the right to believe what they wish, as long as they harm none.

[Brandon Bee]

Satanism is an offshoot of Christianity, just like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventists, and the like.
Umm.. No. Satanism is not an offshoot of Christianity, they are completely different.

There are lots of different sects of Satanism, some worshipping the actual Satan (or the Egyptian Set or another dark deity) and some are just atheists focusing on the worship of themselves and the physical realm and not the spiritual realm.

[Meabh23]

I disagree with the chaos/order polarity.

Thanks to reading tons of Discordian ideas recently, I came upon the discovery that chaos underlies everything. It is the spontaneity and the order of existence.

Perhaps order/disorder is a better way of putting it then chaos/order. Since everything is probably chaos. We just call what we understand and what fits into our views as "order" and everything that doesn't fit as "disorder."

What this has to do with Satanism, I can't say. I won't even say whether I think Satanism is Christianity since I didn't even know there was such a thing until recently.

[celtica]

It seemed that a few of the choices fit into my perspective but not completely so I couldn't make a choice of one option over the other.

I think ego and self is a main focus of satanism among other things. I don't agree with focussing too much on ego and considering the self in a dog eat dog/survival of the fittest. I think there is great value in giving of oneself sometimes even if it brings the self into a state that is less than desired. Sometimes a little sacrifice of the self in order to assist others is a good thing to do.

I don't know a lot about satanism, but from what I've read I see ego and self interests as a main theme.

[David19]

Umm.. No. Satanism is not an offshoot of Christianity, they are completely different.

There are lots of different sects of Satanism, some worshipping the actual Satan (or the Egyptian Set or another dark deity) and some are just atheists focusing on the worship of themselves and the physical realm and not the spiritual realm.

I agree with you, completly :).

[Semjaza]

I've only met one Satanist, and she was hilarious; an intelligent and witty person. She was LaVeyan, and while I have no resect for LaVey or his work, I'll accept that some people find his insights valuable.

Traditional (non-LaVeyan) Satanism is fascinating, and has been a study of mine for a while.

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[PeatBog]

I've always thought of satanism as worship of a christian deity called 'satan'. This satanism = 'nonsecular' humanism is a new one on me. Why not call yourself an epicurean, a humanist, or a pan-theist and avoid the controversy if you don't worship the devil?

[Cain]

I've always thought of satanism as worship of a christian deity called 'satan'. This satanism = 'nonsecular' humanism is a new one on me. Why not call yourself an epicurean, a humanist, or a pan-theist and avoid the controversy if you don't worship the devil?

To wind up Christians, obviously. And historically there has been very little organized worship of the Christian Devil. The first organized group to use the name in modern history is the Church of Satan (yeah, we could go into the Hellfire Club nonsense, but I know next to nothing about it).

Satan is looked up to as a maligned mythological character, among the humanist wing, who valued knowledge and independence and no worship of another individual. Thats why the name was adopted, other than to wind up Christians. It could have just as easily been Prometheans and if the Greek Pantheon were the major religion on the planet, I suspect it would be.

I kinda like alot of their thinking.

[Little Billy]

(yeah, we could go into the Hellfire Club nonsense, but I know next to nothing about it).


Basically, they drank port and played with the debbil's bricks.

Wild bunch, they were. :lol:

[Cain]

Basically, they drank port and played with the debbil's bricks.

Wild bunch, they were. :lol:

Thats incredibly disappointing. They could have at least...I don't know, sacraficed things? Not even living things, that would be fine.

[Little Billy]

Thats incredibly disappointing. They could have at least...I don't know, sacraficed things? Not even living things, that would be fine.

Nope. Just some drunken frat boys.

Sorry.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Nope. Just some drunken frat boys.

Sorry.
Like our president once was.

[Cain]

Nope. Just some drunken frat boys.

Sorry.

Sacraficial livers?

_inabox_

[Kuai]

As I said in the "do you believe in good and evil?" thread I see good and evil as one in the same. There is good and evil in all things. The Christian devil is not necessarily pure evil. It is just that 90% of the information people have access to about him is written from the other point of view. It is like how we teach kids in school about WW2 and tell them how bad Germany was without telling them that the real German military felt it was only defending itself and at some point actually helped us take down Hitler. Personally I disagree with how both the Christian god and the Christan devil do things and refuse to worship either one. I believe that Satanists are not necessarily evil as much as they see Satan in a different way then Christians do.

[Stormbeard]

It's adorable that 11 of you voted that Satanism is a fad, like being goth, it is not a serious religion.

[Lightning Strike]

I have met So- called Satanists. Well without wanting to sound like I am religion-bashing, I will refrain from comment on your last post Stormbeard. With all that in mind, I would like to add that I personally do not believe nor follow in the path of Satanism, and that every Satanist I have come across has seemed to be following it for some kind of attention gain ''look at me, I'm different,'''' and they seemed to base it all on some kind of Hollywood Cult belief-of course there are those who follow the way, I'm sure [somewhere] with pride and commitment and are serious practitioners. I have yet to meet a Satanist who is for real and not just doing it for pretense or attention. And I have met quite a few. Most of them became Satanists after bullying, in order to appear darker than they are, to ward off any more hassles. It seemed they were hiding behind it, like some kind of screen to mask who they really are underneath.
But then this is just my opinion, and one persons opinion really does not count.
Respect to all those who actually do know what they are talking about, and aren't attempting some kind of act. I might not believe in it, as they may not believe in Wicca, but I do respect their choice, and so whatever makes them happy, and as long as people aren't being deliberately harmed or manipulated into things, then to each their own choices.

[Sethserpenthus]

Which type of Satanist? Don't have a problem with most of them. Meh.

[GEBS]

I have yet to meet a Satanist who is for real and not just doing it for pretense or attention.


Hi! I'm GEBS. Nice to meet you. :wave:


I assure you, not all Satanists are what you think. You have probably met Satanists without ever knowing that they are Satanists. Not all of us wear it like a badge. Some of us rarely use the label at all.

[RayneStorm]

Okay first off I'll say that I know absolutely nothing about Satanism. Is it a part of Christianity at all? If not, why is called Satanism if the Christian devil refered to as Satan? I admit also that I dont really know all that much about Christianity either so I may be way way off here but I thought I'd ask anyway.... Hope I dont appear to be stupid!
If you dont ask you wont know.. So here I am, asking. Thanks

Rayne
BTW I didnt vote because like I said I dont know anything about Satanism

[Stormbeard]

I have met So- called Satanists. Well without wanting to sound like I am religion-bashing, I will refrain from comment on your last post Stormbeard. With all that in mind, I would like to add that I personally do not believe nor follow in the path of Satanism, and that every Satanist I have come across has seemed to be following it for some kind of attention gain ''look at me, I'm different,'''' and they seemed to base it all on some kind of Hollywood Cult belief-of course there are those who follow the way, I'm sure [somewhere] with pride and commitment and are serious practitioners. I have yet to meet a Satanist who is for real and not just doing it for pretense or attention. And I have met quite a few. Most of them became Satanists after bullying, in order to appear darker than they are, to ward off any more hassles. It seemed they were hiding behind it, like some kind of screen to mask who they really are underneath.
But then this is just my opinion, and one persons opinion really does not count.
Respect to all those who actually do know what they are talking about, and aren't attempting some kind of act. I might not believe in it, as they may not believe in Wicca, but I do respect their choice, and so whatever makes them happy, and as long as people aren't being deliberately harmed or manipulated into things, then to each their own choices.

You've come across a lot of idiots then. Satanism is a valid religion.

EDIT: Just realised GEBS said it better than I did

[Bettie]

I have yet to meet a Satanist who is for real and not just doing it for pretense or attention. .


:wave:

:)


Like SB said, you've obviously met a lot of idiots. Kind of like how Wicca attracts a lot of fluffy, white-light, pentacle-laden wannabe's. Doesn't mean it's not a valid belief system though, right?

[Lightning Strike]

Hi! I'm GEBS. Nice to meet you. :wave:


I assure you, not all Satanists are what you think. You have probably met Satanists without ever knowing that they are Satanists. Not all of us wear it like a badge. Some of us rarely use the label at all.


You've come across a lot of idiots then. Satanism is a valid religion.

EDIT: Just realised GEBS said it better than I did


:wave:

:)


Like SB said, you've obviously met a lot of idiots. Kind of like how Wicca attracts a lot of fluffy, white-light, pentacle-laden wannabe's. Doesn't mean it's not a valid belief system though, right?

I cannot argue with that, so thank you for the clarification. Accepted, noted and understood.

[David19]

Okay first off I'll say that I know absolutely nothing about Satanism. Is it a part of Christianity at all? If not, why is called Satanism if the Christian devil refered to as Satan? I admit also that I dont really know all that much about Christianity either so I may be way way off here but I thought I'd ask anyway.... Hope I dont appear to be stupid!
If you dont ask you wont know.. So here I am, asking. Thanks

Rayne
BTW I didnt vote because like I said I dont know anything about Satanism

Satanism and Christianity are seperate religions, although they obvously share one similar concept (i.e. Satan, whether seen symbolically, as a independent being, dark force in nature, etc).

Think of it like Christianity and Judaism - Christianity evolved out of Judaism, and they share some similar concepts/beliefs, but in a lot of ways, they are absolutely different, yet it doesn't mean that they're both not valid belief systems, same with Satanism.

That's my opinion anyway, maybe some Satanists will have other views.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I maybe wrong but really don't think so on this one.

The only form of Satanism that is aligned with Christianity is the form that calls for an ordained Roman Catholic Priest to administer the Black mass. The status of being ordained is critical in establishing an inversion of the Christian mythology.

This is the form that became associated with the Knights Templar and used as part of the justification to destroy them. It is also the form of Satanism sited in the maleous maliforum and used during the psuedo Trails.

[banondraig]

I maybe wrong but really don't think so on this one.

The only form of Satanism that is aligned with Christianity is the form that calls for an ordained Roman Catholic Priest to administer the Black mass. The status of being ordained is critical in establishing an inversion of the Christian mythology.

This is the form that became associated with the Knights Templar and used as part of the justification to destroy them. It is also the form of Satanism sited in the maleous maliforum and used during the psuedo Trails.

In other words, the form that may not have ever actually existed.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

That's actually a difficult one to say for sure. That it was probally made up for the Knights and such is true and may not exist if it ever did.

One things for sure, the number of Satanic movies aligned along this concept is such that the masses have accpeted its existance. In the mental landscape their is such support for its existances that if nothing else it exists on a psychic level.

It's also probable that given the ability of the movies to influence behavior in certian groups that psuedo groupings do exist. Look at the rise of Jedi beliefs after those moves, probally both dark and light sides of the force.

I trully think that given for every antagonist thier must be a protaganist its logical to me that Christianity would create or produce a Satanist as defined by them. Then add the reinforced concept that he's their and always lurking to jump and a religiuos group would form based upon that inversion of thier belief system. If I cry to god and he doesn't hear but a Satan figure does then I will still hold to my christian roots by worshiping his opposite.

I personaly think this is the fear many pagans must overcome at the begining for they still see a Satan figure in the dark. Granted once they have slipped thier Christian programming they realize its different, but some never slip that program so their "Satan" thrives in the mental turmoil. And maybe if they bring more christian concepts with them they can save their soul and be closer to "GOD" even as they claim a different path. Just my two cents.

[Doodlebug]

I personally could never be a Satanist but I see nothing wrong with those who do choose to practice it.

[Rosetta Morrigan]

Being a Christian hybrid I disagree with the concepts of Satanism and think it's immoral. However, I do still respect it and accept it as a religion.

[phoenixrising]

While I havn't met any I can see the posibilities of it being a genuine faith, something along the lines of interpreting the bible differently so that Satan isn't exactly evil, just not god..
Unfortunatly I believe the ranks of Satanists are even more diluted with teens trying to piss off their parents, craving power, thinking its the craft (ish), and fadish.. than Wicca currently suffers from.

[Bettie]

While I havn't met any I can see the posibilities of it being a genuine faith, something along the lines of interpreting the bible differently so that Satan isn't exactly evil, just not god..
.

There isn't the "possibility" that it's a genuine faith - it IS a genuine faith. And in my experience, it has nothing to do with the bible, or the christian concept of Satan whatsoever.

[phoenixrising]

Sorry Betty, probably could of worded that better.. I have never met any who wern't of the previously mentioned categories.., and was trying to say I can see how it could be a true faith. I would love to learn about it though. I have a fascination with anything religious...

[David19]

Sorry Betty, probably could of worded that better.. I have never met any who wern't of the previously mentioned categories.., and was trying to say I can see how it could be a true faith. I would love to learn about it though. I have a fascination with anything religious...

If you want to learn about Satanism, then here are a few good sites, each one represents a different type of Satanism:

Temple of Set (http://www.xeper.org/)

Diane Vera's Theistic Satanism site (http://www.theisticsatanism.com/), also the Church of Azazel (http://www.theisticsatanism.com/CoAz/), and the Black Goat Cabal (http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/bgoat/index.html).

The Church of Satan (http://www.churchofsatan.com/)

First Church of Satan (http://www.churchofsatan.org/)

All are, IMO, 4 of the best Satanist sites around, and all have differing views as to what Satan is (the Church of Satan is what Anton Lavey started and isn't theistic, and sees Satan as a symbolic figure, not as a real independent being).

Hope this helps you :).

[Bettie]

David19 brings up a point that I think not many people are aware of, that there are different types of Satanism, just as there are different flavours of Christianity, and they all have varying beliefs.

:)

[phoenixrising]

Thanks david!

[The Amityville Ghost]

I haven't voted on the poll, because I don't really like any of the options. I have some major theological objections to Satanism, but I don't think it's important to make a big deal about them. If people are honestly drawn to Satanism, I say more power to them, so long as they are being true to themselves in practicing it.

It seems to me that Satanism is a Nietzschean version of Paganism, more than anything else.

The only thing I have against some Satanists is how some of them will use the Yezidi book of Al-Jilwah as if it were a "Satanic holy text." It isn't. I think it's odd that Anton LaVey chose to include the book in his Satanic Rituals; Al-Jilwah does not fit well with anything like "La Messe Noir" or "Das Tierdrama." Again, I respect the rights of Satanists to believe and practice as they will, but I wish they'd do a bit more research on the Yezidis before they make claims about them.

But to LaVey's credit, he is not the one with the worst understanding of the Yezidis. There is a denomination of Satanism known as "The Joy of Satan" which really abuses the book of Al-Jilwah. Without bothering to have even consulted such scholars of Yezidism as Professor Philip G. Kreyenbroek, "High Priestess Maxine" deems herself fit to use Al-Jilwah as justification for hatred and persecution against Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

Joy of Satan
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/

[David19]

I haven't voted on the poll, because I don't really like any of the options. I have some major theological objections to Satanism, but I don't think it's important to make a big deal about them. If people are honestly drawn to Satanism, I say more power to them, so long as they are being true to themselves in practicing it.

It seems to me that Satanism is a Nietzschean version of Paganism, more than anything else.

The only thing I have against some Satanists is how some of them will use the Yezidi book of Al-Jilwah as if it were a "Satanic holy text." It isn't. I think it's odd that Anton LaVey chose to include the book in his Satanic Rituals; Al-Jilwah does not fit well with anything like "La Messe Noir" or "Das Tierdrama." Again, I respect the rights of Satanists to believe and practice as they will, but I wish they'd do a bit more research on the Yezidis before they make claims about them.

But to LaVey's credit, he is not the one with the worst understanding of the Yezidis. There is a denomination of Satanism known as "The Joy of Satan" which really abuses the book of Al-Jilwah. Without bothering to have even consulted such scholars of Yezidism as Professor Philip G. Kreyenbroek, "High Priestess Maxine" deems herself fit to use Al-Jilwah as justification for hatred and persecution against Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

Joy of Satan
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/

I agree with you that the Yezidis aren't Satanists, and that the Al-Jiwah isn't a Satanic holy book, and I'm glad you mentioned "Maxine Dietrich" (real name: Andrea Herrington, wife of prominent Tulsa neo-Nazi Cliff Herrington).

Although her site can't really be taken as representing Satanists, as there are quite a few others who oppose her (see Diane Vera's section on Neo-Nazi Satanists (http://www.theisticsatanism.com/politics/Nazi/index.html)), although there also a lot of Satanists who may not feel the same way as Andrea/Maxine, but aren't willing to do anything to oppose her.

Her site is more a recruiting ground for neo-Nazis and also to spread anti-Semitic messages (especially see her other site, www.666blacksun.com). She doesn't like Christianity or Islam, but 'cause she sees them as tools of a Jewish "conspiracy" (since they both have origins in Judaism). She also doesn't seem hate other "races", only Jews, as on www.666blacksun.com site, she has a section listing groups for Asians, blacks, etc (http://www.666blacksun.com/E-Groups.html)).

IMO, she's just a moron, who wants to get money for her husbands neo-Nazi organisation (if you look at the address on Joy of Satan.com, it's the same address for Cliff Herrington's organisation), whether or not she's actually a Satanist or has any religious beliefs is anyones guess.

[The Amityville Ghost]

David, I am so appalled at the 666blacksun website that I don't even know what to say. I just plain do not know what to say.

[David19]

David, I am so appalled at the 666blacksun website that I don't even know what to say. I just plain do not know what to say.

I know at first it can be shocking, what's even more shocking is that quite a few people actually believe it, that the Jews are "controlling the world" or that Christianity is a "Jewish tool to control and destroy gentiles", etc.

Here are some good sites that expose Cliff Herrington ("Maxine"/Andrea's husband):

http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/nsm.htm
http://nationalsatanistsmovement.blogspot.com/2007/11/meet-nsm-leader-chairman-devil.html

Also, whether or not "Maxine"/Andrea was truly devoted to Satan is up for debate, but it was mainly a tool to get funds and recruits for neo-Nazis (especially Cliff's organisation, as the address on the Joy of Satan on where to send funds too, is the same for Cliff's NSM organisation). They specifically targeted teens a lot, gaining their trust and then poisoning them with their lies against the Jews and others (but mainly the Jews), I was a member of their TeensforSatan yahoo group (although I wasn't a Satanist, and I never posted, mainly 'cause they all seemed quite wierd and psychopathic), and the posts I saw were just freaking wierd and, IMO, some bordered on psychopathic (like some talked about messing around with Jews, either astrally, although whether they could astral project or do any magic at all is again up for debate considering a lot Maxine's sources are plagarized from New Age sources, and involve a lot of "visualising", although she does list 'Initiation into Hermetics' by Franz Bardon which is pretty good, although whether she understood it, is again up for debate).

It's funny though, it kind of backfired on them 'cause Cliff Herrington was kicked out of his neo-Nazi party because his wifes link to Satanism got exposed (see this site (http://www.fightdemback.org/2006/07/14/im-dreaming-of-a-bill-white-christmas/), this one (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=670) and this one (http://www.leftwrites.net/2007/01/26/sorrows-of-the-fascists/) for more info).

Although the Joy of Satan still seems to be running, unfortunely, at least, it's been exposed as the neo-Nazi anti-Semitic site it is, to both the Satanist community (the link to Diane Vera's page that I linked too in the above post is definitely worth a look) and the wider world, she's now pretty much a joke.

Although I have no idea how many teens and others still support her.

[The Amityville Ghost]

Well thank Melek Ta'us that this craziness is finally being exposed! I first saw the Joy of Satan website a few years ago and I was absolutely appalled to see how they were twisting the book of Al-Jilwah to fit their hateful teachings. To be honest I totally did not know it was really a Nazi group, and the fact that this website still exists and it still has Al-Jilwah quotes posted everywhere makes me really depressed.

It's good to find out that Satanists are just as appalled by this stuff as I am. An answer to my prayers!

[ROSBAT]

satanists are people and nothings we and everyone it doesn't matter what religion we have to respect them is their belief and opinion and some of them are really cool

[FiresSong]

Eh. It's a religion, nothing more or less than that. And though there are some people who use it just like some use Witchcraft to scare the people around them, the fact that there are idiots involved doesn't negate the validity of the actual faith.

[thought_on_a_wind]

Can't remember if I replied on this one ( i know I voted) either way, maybe my view has changed, and I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

I've read the Satanic bible originally written by LaVeigh (is that how you spell it?) and from what I could gather from it, it seemed more linked to rebellion than belief in Satan itself. He made reference to Lucifer on multiple occasions, but remained adamant that these deities, and the rituals inherant were just to manifest the dogma he felt was neccessary to accomplish the will of one person, or many. Since then, I've heard that the church of Satan has split in two, some taking a more "traditional" religious rout, others following the original mandates set forth.

I happen to have a friend that counts the Satanic Bible as just what the second word says... but from the standpoint that there are philosophies set within the pages that make sense to him. He considers himself a "conservative" Satanist.

On the other hand, LaVeigh said some very racy things about Paganism that I found decently offensive, although he had certain points I'd consider valid. Either way, i think the book itself is worth a looksee, even if it is just out of morbid curiosity. The problem with people reading it, is that there is a huge stigma attached to the name.

[WitchyLady777]

The LeVay folks, the Setians? No real problem, whatever rocks their world. But, and I say this with all due respect to folks like that, there is a much darker side to Satanism than the creed of Anton LeVay.

Serial killer Richard Ramirez's beliefs, his version of Satanism is just as valid it's own way as the Church of Satan, of which he was very nominally a member. (He donated enough to get a card, and support the COS, he'd apparently read LaVay and liked a lot of what he rread, but ultimately he also thought Levay's creed was too "light bound" for him so he went his own way...)

Was he any less a Satanist for not following a "do what thy wilt but harm none" kinda law?

Not in my opinion.

Ramirez was and is very sincerely devoted to Satan.

Yes, he's a wacko who used his religion as an excuse to sacrifice people, but he's not just "playing" at it. He's a true believer, and I believe he has the perfect right to claim the label of Satanist even if it does likely creep any self-respecting COS member out...

In this town there is a practicing Satanic group that has been around for as long as I have, over 4-5 decades, and maybe longer. I know this because I was invited to join them as a younger person.

(Needless to say I declined.)

A good friend was mixed up with them, and I got eyed as a potential recruit because of my own occult beliefs. My friend, he lived to rue the day.They got him into things he actually ended up going to prison for. His life was almost ruined by these people, but few people would believe any of it if he told the truth about what happened.

I know it happened. I was there, watching him getting involved, watching him getting in over his head, changing, and doing things he'd never have done before he got involved with those people.

This is not simply an intellectual, sensualist bunch of people out to satisfy themselves in a LeVay sort of way, nor is it a just bunch of kids out there playing Satanist-wannabe. This is a dark-minded, seriously organized group, with a purpose and a stated goal that is not so nice and neighborly. They have in the past actually desecrated graves, and defiled churches by sacrificing animals on the altars.

Twice that I know of in the late 80's a local Catholic church had to completely replace and reconsecrate the altar over the presence of these people in the church and what they left there. The incidents were pretty much hushed up at the time, though I do remember a small blurb in the Times about some vandalism at that church, but the article didn't go into detail or mention the desecrated altar. They don't leave the church open now, and they have a very good security system in place something I can't say as I blame them for given what's happened to them.

That incident, what these people did to that altar, most kids wouldn't even dream of doing. It was truly sick and perverted and way beyond the ken of most people who dabble in Satanism.

In my book there are two kinds of Satanists.

The one kind I'd cheerfully invite over for dinner and probably enjoy the company of immensely.

The other kind? I'd avoid at all costs because they are simply sick-minded, dangerous people, who want to hurt as many people as they can while all while wearing a seemingly innocent smile on their faces.

[Eternal Night]

The one kind I'd cheerfully invite over for dinner and probably enjoy the company of immensely.

The other kind? I'd avoid at all costs because they are simply sick-minded, dangerous people, who want to hurt as many people as they can while all while wearing a seemingly innocent smile on their faces.

That point doesn't just apply to Satanists though does it?

[WitchyLady777]

That point doesn't just apply to Satanists though does it?

Well, maybe it's just that I am meeting some quality Pagans, Christians et all but I can't say I've actually met anyone in any other religion who'd do something as sick as what those folks did, or who'd kill several innocent people as sacrifices to a deity....

Like I said the more cerebral non-violent types calling themselves Satanists, I have no problem with.

The people I met from this group?

They nearly scared the living sh- outta me at the time.

[Eternal Night]

Well, maybe it's just that I am meeting some quality Pagans, Christians et all but I can't say I've actually met anyone in any other religion who'd do something as sick as what those folks did, or who'd kill several innocent people .

So the Crusades wasn't based on religion where thousands were killed?
Also Jihad?

I think if you go through history and right up to present day there are several groups and organisations that kill or have killed plenty of innocent humans and animals in the name of their God/s.

[David19]

The LeVay folks, the Setians? No real problem, whatever rocks their world. But, and I say this with all due respect to folks like that, there is a much darker side to Satanism than the creed of Anton LeVay.

Serial killer Richard Ramirez's beliefs, his version of Satanism is just as valid it's own way as the Church of Satan, of which he was very nominally a member. (He donated enough to get a card, and support the COS, he'd apparently read LaVay and liked a lot of what he rread, but ultimately he also thought Levay's creed was too "light bound" for him so he went his own way...)

Was he any less a Satanist for not following a "do what thy wilt but harm none" kinda law?

Not in my opinion.

Ramirez was and is very sincerely devoted to Satan.

Yes, he's a wacko who used his religion as an excuse to sacrifice people, but he's not just "playing" at it. He's a true believer, and I believe he has the perfect right to claim the label of Satanist even if it does likely creep any self-respecting COS member out...

In this town there is a practicing Satanic group that has been around for as long as I have, over 4-5 decades, and maybe longer. I know this because I was invited to join them as a younger person.

(Needless to say I declined.)

A good friend was mixed up with them, and I got eyed as a potential recruit because of my own occult beliefs. My friend, he lived to rue the day.They got him into things he actually ended up going to prison for. His life was almost ruined by these people, but few people would believe any of it if he told the truth about what happened.

I know it happened. I was there, watching him getting involved, watching him getting in over his head, changing, and doing things he'd never have done before he got involved with those people.

This is not simply an intellectual, sensualist bunch of people out to satisfy themselves in a LeVay sort of way, nor is it a just bunch of kids out there playing Satanist-wannabe. This is a dark-minded, seriously organized group, with a purpose and a stated goal that is not so nice and neighborly. They have in the past actually desecrated graves, and defiled churches by sacrificing animals on the altars.

Twice that I know of in the late 80's a local Catholic church had to completely replace and reconsecrate the altar over the presence of these people in the church and what they left there. The incidents were pretty much hushed up at the time, though I do remember a small blurb in the Times about some vandalism at that church, but the article didn't go into detail or mention the desecrated altar. They don't leave the church open now, and they have a very good security system in place something I can't say as I blame them for given what's happened to them.

That incident, what these people did to that altar, most kids wouldn't even dream of doing. It was truly sick and perverted and way beyond the ken of most people who dabble in Satanism.

In my book there are two kinds of Satanists.

The one kind I'd cheerfully invite over for dinner and probably enjoy the company of immensely.

The other kind? I'd avoid at all costs because they are simply sick-minded, dangerous people, who want to hurt as many people as they can while all while wearing a seemingly innocent smile on their faces.

I agree with your point that there are 2 types of Satanists - the good ones (by that, I mean the non-murdering type) and the bad ones (the ones who enjoy killing in the name of their God), but that applies to other religions too, there are good and bads one in all religions.

Personally, I think not all Satanists worship the same Satan, the ones that you described might worship a Satan that more closely fits with the typical conception of Satan, and other Satanists, like the Temple of Set, Church of Satan, Diane Vera's Church of Azazel, First Church of Satan, etc worship a Satan that is more about independence (and not murder).

There's also another Satanist group that fits in with your description of the Satanists you knew, and that's the ONA, the Order of the Nine Angles (http://camlad9.tripod.com/), a group that apparantly practice human sacrifice, whether or not they've actually done it, is up for debate, and apparantly, the founder was a British neo-Nazi, who wanted to set it up as a recruiting ground other neo-Nazism. This wikipedia article has some good info on them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles), the founder is using the name "David Myatt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt), although if you see his Wikipedia article, he's also apparantly converted to Islam too and expressed support for Bin Laden and denies the Holocaust, so how much of a Satanist he is, is up for debate.

The Joy of Satan (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/) is a neo-Nazi organisation, started by "Maxine Dietrich"/Andrea Herrington, wife of Tulsa neo-Nazi leader, Cliff Herrington (incidently, his neo-Nazi organisation is in shambles now when the other neo-Nazis found out his wife was a Satanist (http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_america_updates/groups/national_socialist_movement/national+socialist+movement_update_10052006.htm), or at least, using the Joy of Satan as recruiting group, particularly to recruit teens (they have a Teens for Satan Yahoo group).

Personally, those Satanists are the ones I'd put in with the group you mentioned (no idea if that group your friend got involved with was like that though), the other groups I mentioned (Temple of Set, Diane Vera's group, etc) are very cool, IMO.

Sorry if that post was long and OT :).

[WitchyLady777]

So the Crusades wasn't based on religion where thousands were killed?
Also Jihad?

I think if you go through history and right up to present day there are several groups and organisations that kill or have killed plenty of innocent humans and animals in the name of their God/s.

I didn't say there weren't. I simply said I wasn't meeting any, not in this lifetime, personally anyhow. Other than the odd evangelist here and there, who admittedly annoys me to no end, I have never met anyone here in the other religions that gave me reason to know real fear, I have on the other hand met a few Satanists here who's actions in this town were enough to give me nightmares...

[WitchyLady777]

I agree with your point that there are 2 types of Satanists - the good ones (by that, I mean the non-murdering type) and the bad ones (the ones who enjoy killing in the name of their God), but that applies to other religions too, there are good and bads one in all religions.

Personally, I think not all Satanists worship the same Satan, the ones that you described might worship a Satan that more closely fits with the typical conception of Satan, and other Satanists, like the Temple of Set, Church of Satan, Diane Vera's Church of Azazel, First Church of Satan, etc worship a Satan that is more about independence (and not murder).

There's also another Satanist group that fits in with your description of the Satanists you knew, and that's the ONA, the Order of the Nine Angles (http://camlad9.tripod.com/), a group that apparantly practice human sacrifice, whether or not they've actually done it, is up for debate, and apparantly, the founder was a British neo-Nazi, who wanted to set it up as a recruiting ground other neo-Nazism. This wikipedia article has some good info on them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles), the founder is using the name "David Myatt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt), although if you see his Wikipedia article, he's also apparantly converted to Islam too and expressed support for Bin Laden and denies the Holocaust, so how much of a Satanist he is, is up for debate.

The Joy of Satan (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/) is a neo-Nazi organisation, started by "Maxine Dietrich"/Andrea Herrington, wife of Tulsa neo-Nazi leader, Cliff Herrington (incidently, his neo-Nazi organisation is in shambles now when the other neo-Nazis found out his wife was a Satanist (http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_america_updates/groups/national_socialist_movement/national+socialist+movement_update_10052006.htm), or at least, using the Joy of Satan as recruiting group, particularly to recruit teens (they have a Teens for Satan Yahoo group).

Personally, those Satanists are the ones I'd put in with the group you mentioned (no idea if that group your friend got involved with was like that though), the other groups I mentioned (Temple of Set, Diane Vera's group, etc) are very cool, IMO.

Sorry if that post was long and OT :).

Not at all.

It was informative....

I don't even know if these people have an actual name per se. Probably but I didn't get that far, and I gather it's not discussed listening to my friend's version of things. They're a really sick bunch though. They literally destroyed him, turned him inside out and upside down, before they finished with him.

I'm not going to go into the gory details of what they did to the church altar here, it's just too nasty, and too grisly for words, and turns my stomach to think of, even now, but this bunch? They're definitely some sort of retro-medieval Satan cult, and they definitely don't see the "Satan" that they worship as anything less than a real live brimstone spewing demon-king.

One of the reasons I didn't want to come back here when I finally got too ill with Lupus to work, and why I keep trying to leave here every few years is because of these people. It just totally creeps me out knowing I could have them living practically next door to me, in what most people think of as a mostly peaceful, sleepy, southern town.

For me, this town is a pit. I keep trying to escape it, but I always keep getting sucked back into it. Next time I go?
I'm not coming back, period...

[hiddencat12]

Satanists are real people with a real religion but they are not actually allowed to sacrifice animals. its aginst thier moral code of conduct.
im not sure about them refering to the christian devil but it is definately humaism and looking out for themselves before others. money over people kind thinking

[Myzterio]

Satanists are real people with a real religion but they are not actually allowed to sacrifice animals. its aginst thier moral code of conduct.
im not sure about them refering to the christian devil but it is definately humaism and looking out for themselves before others. money over people kind thinking
As far as I'm aware, sure... Except for the 'money over people'; I think it's mostly their personal well-being, which may range from health to happiness, and from love to fortune.
Any people with actual knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, though.

[Halstrom]

It all depends on what kind of Satanist we're talking about. LeVeyan Satanists are definately humanists, while Theistic Satanists most definately worship an actual entity that could definately be called Satan. (Well at least IMO)

[Bettie]

Satanists are real people with a real religion but they are not actually allowed to sacrifice animals. its aginst thier moral code of conduct.
im not sure about them refering to the christian devil but it is definately humaism and looking out for themselves before others. money over people kind thinking

I don't think that looking out for yourself has anything to do with putting money over people, and implying that all Satanists do this is about as useful as saying "All Wiccans are fluffy". To some Satanists, perhaps money is the priority in their lived - but then you could say that about a lot of non-Satanists, too. I do what's best for me, and what makes me happy. Money doesn't even enter into it.

[imapepper]

All I have to say is that I know a lot of people associate "evil" with Satanists, and I think that's a load of shit. Evil isn't exclusive, it belongs to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc.

As long as people treat each other with respect, that's what counts. I don't care what you practice or who you worship, just don't be a butt hole...or at least, if you're gonna go there, hopefully you have a legitimate reason for being an ass. That's all!

:bigblue:

[Myzterio]

Satanists are real people with a real religion but they are not actually allowed to sacrifice animals. its aginst thier moral code of conduct.
im not sure about them refering to the christian devil but it is definately humaism and looking out for themselves before others. money over people kind thinking


I don't think that looking out for yourself has anything to do with putting money over people, and implying that all Satanists do this is about as useful as saying "All Wiccans are fluffy". To some Satanists, perhaps money is the priority in their lived - but then you could say that about a lot of non-Satanists, too. I do what's best for me, and what makes me happy. Money doesn't even enter into it.

Get ready, you know what's coming...


































Told you so! :D

[David19]

Satanists are real people with a real religion but they are not actually allowed to sacrifice animals. its aginst thier moral code of conduct.
im not sure about them refering to the christian devil but it is definately humaism and looking out for themselves before others. money over people kind thinking

That's only one brand of Satanism, and mainly the LaVeyan one (which is mainly atheistic/humanistic), there are many, many more different varieties, which include theistic Satanists (those who see him as real deity, independent of humanity).

And, about animal sacrifice, LaVeyan Satanists don't sacrifice animals, but some do (and I'm not talking about the bad ones, as animal sacrifice isn't "evil", as long as it's done it's done right).

[David19]

All I have to say is that I know a lot of people associate "evil" with Satanists, and I think that's a load of shit. Evil isn't exclusive, it belongs to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc.

As long as people treat each other with respect, that's what counts. I don't care what you practice or who you worship, just don't be a butt hole...or at least, if you're gonna go there, hopefully you have a legitimate reason for being an ass. That's all!

:bigblue:

I really agree with your post 100% :).

[kotu]

some are evil

others may not be

the end

[JokingDraugr]

Fun loving group. I personally wish there was more of them.

[imapepper]

I really agree with your post 100% :).

Thank you dear! I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say as well! I tried to karma you, but it won't let me since I've already gone karma happy with you. :veryweird

[David19]

Thank you dear! I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say as well! I tried to karma you, but it won't let me since I've already gone karma happy with you. :veryweird

Thanks :).

[Meadhbh]

I'm not a Satanist so forgive me if I get anything wrong. But I think there are to many different takes on what a satanist is and isn't even amoung their own people that a poll like this is hard to answer. But I think for the most part the majority of satanist see it as a worship and acceptance of human nature and nature itself. But you could also call it a a form of spiritual humanism.