Hellenism (for dummies)

[DandelionDame]

I am very, very curious about the Hellenic path (I guess more on the Reconstructionist flavor than Wiccan - no offense to Wiccans! It's just not something that resonates with me. I tend to be more of the polytheist type, among other things.). After I finish the current book I'm reading, I'm going to start Burkert's Greek Religion so I assume that will give me plenty to think about. Maybe "Hellenic" isn't even the correct term but it seems like it might be. I guess I'm just really really interested in any & every thing folks on here care to share about the Hellenic (or other forms of Greek spirituality whose terms I may not be aware of yet) path. I've done searches online, but seem to come up with far more Wiccans who work with Greek deities than the other kinds of Greek religion enthusiasts I'm attempting to find out about here.

Please let me know if I need to clarify anything or word my questions more coherently! And thank you in advance!

[Alkhemia]

Hiya!

Burkert's book is very good and it will give you a firm foundation on which to continue your interest in Hellenismos. Like in most religious groups, there are many different "flavors" of Hellenic Reconstruction and practice. For instance, there are Hellenic Wiccan groups - but, there are also Hellenic Reconstructionist groups that differ in their interpretations of "Reconstructionism." (e.g., is Recon flexible or should it be conservative? Some consider divination and magic to be optional components of Hellenic Recon, others do not.)

A good start would be for you to check out Hellenion (http://www.hellenion.org/) - a Hellenic Recon group based in the U.S. Aside from the information on the Hellenion site, you could also check out their links section for other ideas - they have links to other Hellenic Reconstructionist groups and messageboards.

Hope this helps,

Alkhemia

[DandelionDame]

Thank you, Alkhemia! I'll do some reading up on that link - looks like a good start. :)


Hiya!

Burkert's book is very good and it will give you a firm foundation on which to continue your interest in Hellenismos. Like in most religious groups, there are many different "flavors" of Hellenic Reconstruction and practice. For instance, there are Hellenic Wiccan groups - but, there are also Hellenic Reconstructionist groups that differ in their interpretations of "Reconstructionism." (e.g., is Recon flexible or should it be conservative? Some consider divination and magic to be optional components of Hellenic Recon, others do not.)

A good start would be for you to check out Hellenion (http://www.hellenion.org/) - a Hellenic Recon group based in the U.S. Aside from the information on the Hellenion site, you could also check out their links section for other ideas - they have links to other Hellenic Reconstructionist groups and messageboards.

Hope this helps,

Alkhemia

[ToriaMaximus]

Another good site is About Hellenismos and reconstruction (http://kyrene.4t.com/intro.html)

And Sannion's Sanctuary (http://www.winterscapes.com/sannion/index.htm)

[DandelionDame]

ToriaMaximus, those links are wonderful (hope it's a slow day at work so I can peruse them more ;)) - thank you!

[ToriaMaximus]

You're welcome.

:)

[Ben Gruagach]

Here are a few more books that might be of use to someone studying Greek paganism. (I'm not into Hellenism myself though so I can't say whether any of these books are either recommended or discouraged among modern practitioners.)

"Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion" by Jane Ellen Harrison.

"The Homeric Hymns" translated and introduced by Apostolos N. Athanassakis.

"The Ancient Mysteries: A Sourcebook of Sacred Texts" edited by Marvin W. Meyer. (Includes Greek and other mystery religion primary texts translated into English.)

If you're interested in magick and witchcraft in ancient Greece, these ones are good:

"Arcana Mundi: Magic and the Occult in the Greek and Roman Worlds" by Georg Luck.

"The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation" edited by Hans Dieter Betz (includes a lot more than just Greek material.)

"Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in Greek and Roman Worlds" by Daniel Ogden.

"Magic in the Ancient World" by Fritz Graf (translated by Franklin Philip.)

Good luck on your exploration!

[DandelionDame]

I love those book suggestions, Ben - thank you very much! I'm compiling a list of must-reads for when I finish the Burkert book (which should last me... a while!) and I'll be sure to check those out.

One major thing I've been trying to figure out about the Greek religious structure is how to go about honoring the Olympians properly and respectfully while still holding the extremely special, reverent place I've reserved for Hekate in all aspects of my life. Seeing as Hekate is not an Olympian, but existed before them, and is thought by some to be cthonic while others say she is wayyyyyy more far-reaching than that (on par with Zeus), I'm just kinda skittish about doing anything that would come across as lessening that devotion I've willingly, happily promised Her. I will certainly be doing some meditation and asking Hekate directly about this myself, but am just curious as to whether there's any material out there that addresses this sort of thing and could possibly point me in the right direction so that everyone is happy! :)

Thank you to everyone who has helped me with your posting here! And please keep 'em coming if anything else occurs to you!

[Ben Gruagach]

One major thing I've been trying to figure out about the Greek religious structure is how to go about honoring the Olympians properly and respectfully while still holding the extremely special, reverent place I've reserved for Hekate in all aspects of my life. Seeing as Hekate is not an Olympian, but existed before them, and is thought by some to be cthonic while others say she is wayyyyyy more far-reaching than that (on par with Zeus), I'm just kinda skittish about doing anything that would come across as lessening that devotion I've willingly, happily promised Her. I will certainly be doing some meditation and asking Hekate directly about this myself, but am just curious as to whether there's any material out there that addresses this sort of thing and could possibly point me in the right direction so that everyone is happy! :)

You might find the book "Devoted to You: Honoring Deity in Wiccan Practice" edited by Judy Harrow to be useful.

I know the title says it's Wiccan, but at least two of the essays in the book were written by practitioners involved in reconstructionist paths rather than Wiccan ones. The one that would most likely interest you is the essay on worshipping Aphrodite, written by Maureen Reddington-Wilde, who is listed in the author blurb as belonging to Daitales, a Hellenic Reconstructionist congregation.

While it's not specifically about Hecate it might have some good ideas for working with a specific Greek deity in a Greek reconstructionist system.

[DandelionDame]

I've eyed that book before and thought it looked interesting - sounds like it may be a good source for my question. Ben, you're one of MW's greatest natural resources!

[Theres]

Ben, you're one of MW's greatest natural resources!
let's just hope he doesn't flood! ;)

[DandelionDame]

...again.

(I have no idea what this means. ;))


let's just hope he doesn't flood! ;)

[Ben Gruagach]

let's just hope he doesn't flood! ;)

I'm not sure I want to picture what flooding might look like.... but flattery does make me blush!

[Protagonist]

I'm a Hellenist. I'm glad folks are noticing us, rather than falling into the same old "all pagans are Wiccans or Wicca derived" claptrap some places spout.

Whoa, sorry. I didn't mean to rant like that.

[DandelionDame]

:lol:

Protagonist, if you feel comfortable sharing some info about your practices, I'd love to read it!

Do most Hellenists do something for the 12 deities every day? I'm curious - it sounds like an amazing way to really keep in touch with them, but doing 12 or so rituals every day is a teensy bit overwhelming to think about. Or am I completely misunderstanding how Hellenists go about paying their proper respects?

Sorry so many questions, everyone! I'm just fascinated by this path.


I'm a Hellenist. I'm glad folks are noticing us, rather than falling into the same old "all pagans are Wiccans or Wicca derived" claptrap some places spout.

Whoa, sorry. I didn't mean to rant like that.

[Protagonist]

Well, I only know how I personally practice, of course, and I can't claim to speak for all Hellenists - being alone, I'm probably a bit unorthodox. I'm actually quite new to this, and, of course, I try to always learn.

I pray to the Olympians and the Chthonic deities, and I try to do something for Them every day, but that doesn't translate into 12 rituals (at least, not with me.) I often say prayers addressed to all of Them together. For me, at least, prayer does not equal ritual, though I do practice ritual offerings to Hestia, of a portion of my meals, and incense.

Another consideration is that these Deities each govern an aspect of the world, and I try and honor them accordingly. The thing is, though, these Deities are not, to me, mere elementals, though they are associated with certain parts of nature (clouds, the sun, etc.) They hold vast powers in the realm of the spirit, as well, and each asks certain virtues of us mortals.

Piety is valued, and our vision of piety has been called Hellenic piety. Some folks, even in the pagan community, freak out about the idea of "pious pagans." If one really looks at the definition of piety (or looks FOR it *wicked socratic laugh*) plenty pagans of all faiths are pious, from Wiccans to Satanists. http://www.ecauldron.com/dc-eusebeia.php (This) is my favorite article on the subject, because it echoes so many of the classical texts that drew me to Hellenism.

I definitely recommend checking out Sannion's writings that someone linked to earlier. He's quite the genius - don't be put off by how churlish he can be towards Wiccans; much of it is in jest.

[DandelionDame]

That's a big relief that 12 or so separate rituals isn't necessarily the average solitary practitioner's daily routine! Because I can't imagine that anyone has that kind of time every day!

I started setting up little pseudo-shrines in appropriate places - the only altar I have or will have in the foreseeable future is for Hekate, as she's the proverbial star of my show ;) but small, simple shrines (for lack of a better word) scattered about seems like a good way to gradually get to know them without making anything grander than what I have for Hekate. I'm very skittish about doing anything that would tick her off.

And yes, I've actually been reading loads of Sannion's Hellenic writings since following the link from here - LOVE that site. He explains things so well and I actually am starting to feel like I get it to a degree (you know, for the Hellenic amateur that I am). Will definitely keep on reading, and am looking forward to reading the link you so kindly posted too.


Well, I only know how I personally practice, of course, and I can't claim to speak for all Hellenists - being alone, I'm probably a bit unorthodox. I'm actually quite new to this, and, of course, I try to always learn.

I pray to the Olympians and the Chthonic deities, and I try to do something for Them every day, but that doesn't translate into 12 rituals (at least, not with me.) I often say prayers addressed to all of Them together. For me, at least, prayer does not equal ritual, though I do practice ritual offerings to Hestia, of a portion of my meals, and incense.

Another consideration is that these Deities each govern an aspect of the world, and I try and honor them accordingly. The thing is, though, these Deities are not, to me, mere elementals, though they are associated with certain parts of nature (clouds, the sun, etc.) They hold vast powers in the realm of the spirit, as well, and each asks certain virtues of us mortals.

Piety is valued, and our vision of piety has been called Hellenic piety. Some folks, even in the People community, freak out about the idea of "pious Peoples." If one really looks at the definition of piety (or looks FOR it *wicked socratic laugh*) plenty Peoples of all faiths are pious, from Wiccans to Satanists. http://www.ecauldron.com/dc-eusebeia.php (http://this/) is my favorite article on the subject, because it echoes so many of the classical texts that drew me to Hellenism.

I definitely recommend checking out Sannion's writings that someone linked to earlier. He's quite the genius - don't be put off by how churlish he can be towards Wiccans; much of it is in jest.

[Ben Gruagach]

Check out this thread (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=81651) here at MysticWicks for some more stuff that might interest those exploring a Hellenic path.

[Athena-Nadine]

I am a Hellenic Reconstructionist, and while I'm not online that often lately, so I don't know how helpful I can be answering your questions, I can help steer you in the right direction.


Greek Religion, by Walter Burkert, is a great book to start with. So is Old Stones, New Temples, by Drew Campbell, if you can find it (it's out of print). Here are a couple of web sites:

Theoi Project (http://www.theoi.com/) - this site has been down for a while, but it is back up now. It has the most extensive collection of Hellenic information on the Internet. :)

BeliefNet Hellenismos and Religio Romana message board (http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=13978)

Hellenismos 101 (http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=14287&discussionID=165334)

Sponde! Hands on Hellenism (http://www.sponde.com/)

Hellenic Ethics: Living Virtues in Community (http://www.ecauldron.com/greekethics.php)

Some information on the Athenian Festival calendar (http://www.winterscapes.com/kharis/calendar.htm)

Some suggested reading (http://www.ecauldron.com/recongreek.php)

I hope that helps! :)

[Theres]

(good to see you Athena-N!)

i was devasted when Theoi went down (okay, that's a slight exaggeration), but the up side was that i went looking for other decent sites to replace it. one that i am really glad i found was this site (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/). i've found it very informative and refreshingly accurate (as far as i can tell).

my leanings are undoubtedly Greek, although i am more drawn to the pre-classical era than the Hellenic. i don't have the discipline to be a reconstructionist, but i have a hard time seeing "Hellenic Wicca" as a viable marriage.
i guess that leaves me without a label at the moment, but that's nothing that concerns me much. if i find myself filling a certain description in the future that would be fine, but i am not actively seeking that.

until then i guess i'm just a 'Thereon'! ;)

[Pure Ahimsa]

I don't know much I just like Athena and Artemis, thought i'd just share that with you.

[DandelionDame]

Ben, Athena-Nadine, Theres... you all rock. So glad it's nearly the weekend so I can dig in to those great links! Thank you thank you thank you!

(tigerlad, I really like Athena and Artemis too - I'm glad you shared! :))

I accessed The Theoi Project a while back via the "Way Back machine" and now that they're online again (in full effect,as it were), well, I'm a little blissed out.

Eeee! MW is so great!

[Ben Gruagach]

Just a few more web links that I don't think were mentioned yet. (Again, I'm not a Hellenic follower so I'm not sure how recommended these are among those in the know... but they could be helpful!)

Biblioteca Arcana (http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/) (I like this site quite a bit.)

the Classics section of Sacred-Texts.com (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/index.htm) (I love Sacred-Texts.com!)

[Tim]

i don't have the discipline to be a reconstructionist, but i have a hard time seeing "Hellenic Wicca" as a viable marriage.
i guess that leaves me without a label at the moment, but that's nothing that concerns me much. if i find myself filling a certain description in the future that would be fine, but i am not actively seeking that.
I'm with you...and when asked I say that I am a Hellenic NeoPagan. Besides being a recon somehow seems (to me) to be very unGreek.

[Hellenic_Witch]

I know I'm bumping an old thread here, but I was reading these posts and I just had to quote this sentence:


- - the only altar I have or will have in the foreseeable future is for Hekate, as she's the proverbial star of my show ;)

DandelionDame, that was a gem!

And since it's been a couple of months, I was wondering how you've been doing with your Hellenic studies (if I may call it that).

[DandelionDame]

Aw, Hellenic Witch, thanks for the quote! And thanks for asking.

It's a reeeeally long story, but I'll condense the heck out of it. I read everything I could get my paws on about Hellenic ways and think it's an amazing religion. Becuase of Hekate, I just dove right in to more Greek studies and learned so much I might never have learned otherwise. The student in me absolutely loved it! But there has always been this rowdy, rollicking, dirty Irish part of me that hasn't let go and, even longer story short, I'm following up on that. It wasn't as easy as it sounds, believe me! I think that learning in depth about various religious systems (especially Hellenism and Hinduism) was crucial in my development, as I kept getting pointed in these different directions, when in my heart all I wanted was to feel accepted by the Irish deities and the land itself. I really feel and believe that Hekate came along and helped to lead me to the point I needed to be in order to pursue this. Gosh, I hope this makes sense! It's so hard to explain. I'm sure I'll read ever more about Hellenism at various points, and even though it seems that Hekate has stepped back from my life at this point, I'm sure that she'll come along again when it's right. In the meantime, though, it feels like a sort of homecoming with the Irish studies I've undertaken.

Wow, that was wordy, sorry. I wish I had a more Hellenic conclusion! :) How are you doing with all Hellenic?

[Hellenic_Witch]

I'm passionate about the Greek pantheon and I honor the Gods daily, but I feel Hekate is the only one I truly worship. I sort of view her as being separate, maybe its her chthonic aspect.


It's a reeeeally long story, but I'll condense the heck out of it. I read everything I could get my paws on about Hellenic ways and think it's an amazing religion. Becuase of Hekate, I just dove right in to more Greek studies and learned so much I might never have learned otherwise. The student in me absolutely loved it! But there has always been this rowdy, rollicking, dirty Irish part of me that hasn't let go and, even longer story short, I'm following up on that. It wasn't as easy as it sounds, believe me! I think that learning in depth about various religious systems (especially Hellenism and Hinduism) was crucial in my development, as I kept getting pointed in these different directions, when in my heart all I wanted was to feel accepted by the Irish deities and the land itself. I really feel and believe that Hekate came along and helped to lead me to the point I needed to be in order to pursue this. Gosh, I hope this makes sense! It's so hard to explain. I'm sure I'll read ever more about Hellenism at various points, and even though it seems that Hekate has stepped back from my life at this point, I'm sure that she'll come along again when it's right. In the meantime, though, it feels like a sort of homecoming with the Irish studies I've undertaken.

No knowledge, once gained, is wasted. I think if we are drawn to something and have a true desire to learn about it that there is a reason for ithat. And if it turns out that it wasn't exactly the path you end up on, then so what? That knowledge is now a part of you, a part of who you are.

Perhaps Hekate is guiding you to explore certain aspects of yourself that you have been drawn to (you know, the rowdy, rollicking, dirty Irish part).

[DandelionDame]

I'm passionate about the Greek pantheon and I honor the Gods daily, but I feel Hekate is the only one I truly worship. I sort of view her as being separate, maybe its her chthonic aspect.

I totally see this. She wasn't one of The Olympians, yet she had/has immense power and influence in the 3 realms (which is something that blends with Irish mythology quite well, that of 3 realms). And Zeus, even after conquering all, didn't argue this power but granted it to Her willingly. That speaks volumes of her immensity and ancientness. [/QUOTE]



No knowledge, once gained, is wasted. I think if we are drawn to something and have a true desire to learn about it that there is a reason for ithat. And if it turns out that it wasn't exactly the path you end up on, then so what? That knowledge is now a part of you, a part of who you are.

Perhaps Hekate is guiding you to explore certain aspects of yourself that you have been drawn to (you know, the rowdy, rollicking, dirty Irish part).

:) Yes, I'm extremely grateful that I got to learn so much (and most of the learning was based on dreams I had pointing me directly toward these subjects), and I definitely feel far more well-rounded than I used to feel. Knowledge is so important to both Hekate and the Irish deities that I often wonder if they were in cahoots! "Ah, you think you're smart? Well-read? OK, how's this: Egypt! Greece! India! Go!" As you said, "No knowledge, once gained, is wasted". I love the work!

[Hellenic_Witch]

Well-read? OK, how's this: Egypt! Greece! India! Go!" As you said, "No knowledge, once gained, is wasted". I love the work!

Oh, I feel the same way! It's almost as if we receive assignments from the deities "Learn all you possibly can about ___ subject. You will read 300 pages over the weekend". Being a compulsive (obsessive) reader by nature, I love it! I trust that Hekate, being the keeper of the keys and torches is leading me on this path and whatever she feels I need to learn on the way is somehow relevant to me, although I may not see it at the time.