Dragon-Wicca?

[ariansdreams]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as Wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of Wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and Wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

[Druchii]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

I am finding that it is not too common, but there are a few on here that adhere to beliefs not unlike that of your friend's. I understand that the majority of them believe in them on an astral level as opposed to a real creature of flesh and blood.
In my honest opinion, I think that the majority of connection stems between the mystical connatatives of dragons and some aspects of witchcraft.

[Tabbykitty]

Well there are some who believe that they originally came from another planet or world where dragons are common, but were reincarnated on earth as humans. So perhaps that is where the dragons come from.

While I don't dismiss that possiblity, for indeed, many things beyond human understanding are possible, but I DO feel a rising urge to rant about the majority of people who tell me strange stuff like that and who, when asked about their beliefs, don't really bother to do a bit of research, self-searching and mystical exploration of said claims/beliefs. AND who cant really describe to me what having that belief means to them living in this present world on a day-by-day basis. :P

Well, I guess I better stop before I step on toes.:P

Me two cents.

[ariansdreams]

Tabbykitty, I know what you mean. I guess that part of my problem with my friend is that his belief system feels so incredibly inplausible to me that I shy away from asking him much about it because I'm afraid I'll say something characteristically Arian-like (cynical) and make him upset. I think this is why I'd rather hear it from a third party whom I am much less likely to want to argue with. That being said, I do respect his right to believe what he wants. I just don't really understand it or take it seriously at this point.

Pax,
Arian

[mothwench]

i have no problems with worship of dragons. i myself hold mythical creatures in great regard and often connect with them. (land-wights, huldvolk, and the gang. :) )

i'm puzzled about this though:

dragon-shaman type thing
:wtf: wazzat?

[ariansdreams]

I'm not really certain. A dragon who was also a shaman? A shaman who could transform into a dragon? Some kind of mutation of the two? This is coming from his description of himself. :)

Pax,
Arian

[mothwench]

oh, right. hmmm. ....???... there are communities like those who call themselves otherkin where he would be quite welcome.

[Tabbykitty]

Perhaps ya can get him to do some research on Earth-based cultures who DO adore or worship or identify strongly with dragon types. Maybe he will find one of them that fits his past life memory. If he does stumble onto that, then perhaps he can try to learn the cultural symbolism and norms so that his belief will make sense to him.

[Tabbykitty]

oh, right. hmmm. ....???... there are communities like those who call themselves otherkin where he would be quite welcome.

oh mannnnnnnn yes he would..... problem with a lot of otherkin is that very very few of them bother to go do that research/self-discovery thing that would allow them to make sense of feeling different from the rest of us humans.....:P

Im kinda thinking from a spiritual point of view he might be better off if he tried to find out more about this dragon-shaman thing himself without being biased by tons of opinions from everyone else and feeling the need to conform to their views.

[Saggitario]

perhaps by dragon shaman, he means that he was a shaman who worked with dragons, much like he wants to do now...

I knew someone who was into 'dragon magic', yet could not tell me anything about it. Some sort of convenient secrecy or something...

[Luciferish]

Dragon Craft is not really "Wicca" but often they get coupled together. Its a form that would remind you of shamanism. The practitioner doesn't necessarily worship a Dragon/Drake or such, but they partner with it.. As they say "Fly With the Dragons", it not all that uncommon to see in traditions like 1734 and such. I know of a few groups (Clans) that practice this kind of thing with heavy celtic overtones, but to call them Wiccan would be out of bounds. They are most certainly witches, but they don't see things like the Rede and Gardner of any import, they are very "old school" if you will. Not much has been published about these systems and I hope they never will be, or they may suffer the same loss of potency as many of the Faery concepts have.

[ariansdreams]

Luciferish,
Thank you for your reply. It is my understanding at this point that it is a serious path of paganism...his reluctance to talk much about it makes much more sense now. Thank you all for your responses!

Pax,
Arian

[Silenus]

From my understanding of what was originally stated, it comes essentially down to this. Wicca is in it's essence another word for magical energy, and dragons from eastern philosophys and religions is a symbolic way of representing ley lines (or lines of magical energy that run through the earth). A dragon is thus wicca.
For the worshipping of dragons it gets more complex, dragons and serpents are essentially the same thing. However they all fall to one creature in the long run (from my research)...Tiamat. Her male counterpart is Baphomet. A ying to a yang. Bahamut is kind of a time worn modification of Baphomet, like wyrm and worm. Both essentially mean serpent. Tiamat has shown up in the bible as a serpent that ate someone, to possibly the hydra in the legend of Hercules, to the Linnorm of Norse religion.
Tiamat is above all else the goddess of life for babylonian and sumerians, she also was the goddess of sea storms, maelstroms, and hurricanes. This reflection is likely based off of the arid nature of the region and a dependence upon fishing. The sea giveth life, and taketh life.
As time passed she lost that life aspect and all that remained was the death. She became the Chaos Dragon, destroyer of the world.
But when one studies modern chaos, we realize that chaos in religion is a misnomer. Chaos defines life, without change there is stagnation. And stagnation is death. Thus once again, when worshipping dragons we worship in essence the absolute of life.
Thus dragons not only represent the God and Goddess, but the cycle with which they pass through...which to my understanding represents life.

I hope this helps :)

[Malcolm]

Or they could just horde treasure and eat virgin sacrifices...:)

[Marcasite]

my fiance (who has been practising for 10 years or so) is very interested in dragons. I wouldn't say they are the -main- part of his belief system, but he certainly identifies with them on the astral level and is very much into the surrounding lore. I think his 'main' deity is a dragon god. He feels many aspects of dragons within him and has an affinity for fire. I'm not sure I do justice to his beliefs though, but if you have some questions in specific I can ask

[BeigeAllen]

I don't know how serious I would take it if one of my friends told me they were following a path they could barely describe. I can understand the need for secrecy in some traditions, but even the most secretive paths either will not let you know that they exist at all, or will pass along at least a minimal description of what they are about.

Since I usually only hear of this "trad" from folks that play a bit too much D&D (in my less than humble opinion), I decided to do a search on the web for "dragon magick" and "dragon shaman".

Doing a search for "dragon shaman" turned up a lot of RPG, Shonen Jump, and Dragon Ball Z. Nothing other than fiction about dragons and shaman. Didn't think any of them worth the link.

http://www.draconian.com/artwork/anim/grey-dragon-1.gif
Doing a search for "dragon magick" turned up the following sites. I have given my own reviews of them (and I really am trying to be nice). Don't take my word for it, though, feel free to check these links out yourself or even do your own search.

Vox Draconis (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/) This site, though still under construction, is the blue ribbon winner of the lot. Whoever this person is, they have taken a lot of dragon lore and connected it together leaving their fellow Dragon Mages to use what they need. There is a lot of great information and well researched articles on this site. Whether you agree with their conclusions or not, its definately worth the read. Cardoza's Dragon Magick and Alchemy (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/ALCHEMY001.html) The site claims "Real Dragon Magick is not just using regular magick with Dragon images woven into it or creating fantasies about the Dragon and adding magick to them; it is magick given directly to us by the Dragon when we meet with it in other spaces." The webmaster then goes on to blend Wicca, Native American traditions, alchemy, chara meditations, etc., etc., etc. In other words, everything they read seems to have gotten dumped into this "ancient trad". Lots of interesting artwork and dragon poetry though.
The Red Dragon Society (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/REDRAGON.html) Just scroll down and check out the recommended reading. They tell you exactly what they threw in the BeliefOMatic before they hit the Frappe button.
Dragon Magick (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dragon-Magick/) The 43 members of this Yahoo group have been chatting about their brands of Dragon Magick since Apr 24, 2002. This list is for the study and practicing of Dragon Lore and Dragon Magick. It is a list that contains High Magick and knowledge of Dragons. If you believe yourself to be Otherkin, a Dragon, or anything besides a human being that is fine that is your belief. But talk about it isn't tolerated on this group and subject to removal from the group.
Dragon Magick Home Page (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/1911/) This page looks like something one of my children would have made. That's not a bad thing but there is a little of everything there and much of it has nothing to do with dragons or magick. I did like the low carb dragon recipes and the "dragon runes" however, made a great dragon cypher puzzle for my kids using the runes.
http://www.geocities.com/dragonia13/Rune1.gif
Red Dragon Magick Tradition Correspondence Course (http://www.qwerks.com/product/5959.html) The 'Red Dragon Magick Tradition' is a fusion of Celtic and Chinese beliefs/mythology and Magick. It concentrates on boosting Personal Power by training the mind, this Personal Power can then be transferred into Magickal practices. It is a system based on improving self esteem and self worth, and you can download it for $350.00 :lol:

[lightdragon]

Dragon Craft is not really "Wicca" but often they get coupled together. Its a form that would remind you of shamanism. The practitioner doesn't necessarily worship a Dragon/Drake or such, but they partner with it.. As they say "Fly With the Dragons", it not all that uncommon to see in traditions like 1734 and such. I know of a few groups (Clans) that practice this kind of thing with heavy celtic overtones, but to call them Wiccan would be out of bounds. They are most certainly witches, but they don't see things like the Rede and Gardner of any import, they are very "old school" if you will. Not much has been published about these systems and I hope they never will be, or they may suffer the same loss of potency as many of the Faery concepts have.I agree mostly with this statement.
i work with dragons. Basically you treat them with respect,they are patient though and can be forgiving to a high extent IF it is called for.. i don`t worship them though, my current deities are Cernunnos and Brighid. But you can be wiccan and be dragoncraft

[Valnorran]

I'm solitary ecclectic Wiccan with a Celtic flavor. I envision the Lord as a dragon, because I just can't quite bring myself to envision him as a man and because from my earliest memories I have loved dragons. But "Dragon Wicca" is a new one on me.

[Shanti]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as Wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of Wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and Wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

I would like to say that I admire your courtesy and respect for your friends beliefs, even with the lack of info you have. To search for understanding instead if passing judgment is a good virtue, I think.

But when it comes to understanding the beliefs of someone...only he can really tell you.
How could anyone know what he feels is his truth besides him?
You cant explain the dragon/shaman thing so theres no way anyone can even begin to 'assume' what his ideals are.

I dont see why you cant objectively learn more from him. If your as courteous talking to him as you are here...I dont think he would think wrongly of your curiosities.

But things he may not want to share, he probably has good reason like... its for him to feel, to know, to believe and not for sharing.

I am glad you have respect for each others beliefs. The beliefs each of us carry, no matter what they are...buy the book or totally different...they are our truths, for us.

I wont even begin to attempt to assume what he may or may not follow/believe. He is truly the best source of his feelings.

He may have some title for what he calls himself but he is the only one who knows all the meanings of that title. A title seldom defines the heart accurately. Its just a tiny help when others are curious and sometimes its not a help at all and is misleading. So toss out the title and learn what he carries in his heart.

Thats my 2 cents. :)

[Vox Draconis]

Vox Draconis (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/) This site, though still under construction, is the blue ribbon winner of the lot. Whoever this person is, they have taken a lot of dragon lore and connected it together leaving their fellow Dragon Mages to use what they need. There is a lot of great information and well researched articles on this site. Whether you agree with their conclusions or not, its definately worth the read.

Woopee! :dancy:*points to above quote* That person is me and that's my website. Now I know where all the referal links came from. What do you think of my site so far? Sorry its a bit off topic but I need some feed back. Progress is slow on it I know but juggling the site with studies both magickal and mundane and the job is a bit hard at times.

[Sage Rainsong]

I never heard of dragon wicca per say bu i have heard of wiccans that invoke dragons at the directions. Here is an interesting site that seems to combine rune and dragon magic. http://www.geocities.com/jkarrah/index.html

[lightdragon]

I never heard of dragon wicca per say bu i have heard of wiccans that invoke dragons at the directions. Here is an interesting site that seems to combine rune and dragon magic. http://www.geocities.com/jkarrah/index.html
Looking thru this site. I think this is the best one on dragon magick.

[Elderbush]

I have to admit that my first thought was "you've got to be kidding" but then I thought about it a little more and if his gods are male and female dragon-gods and he otherwise follows something which could be identified as Wicca, it might work. Belief in an afterlife or past life isn't something that is set for Wiccans.

So...the answer is that this could be a variation upon Wicca, but that still doesn't say anything about his silliness quotient.:)

[Vincent Verthaine]

Tiamat(the Babylonian Dragon of Chaos) is important for many discordians,not just because she was an early personification of Eris,but because She is also the name given by astrophysicists to the Star that went Supernova that caused our Solar System to form.Marduk is the name of her white/brown dwarf companion star that caused her to go critical.

[Dragonmask]

Hello, My name is Dragonmask,
I am new to this community and found your post while doing some research. I actually came to this community to find a commonality to what i practice and it sounds like your friend and i have a great deal in common. For 20 years i have practiced a Dragon tradition called the Noktu'rue. I work with nearly only Dragons myself and rarely ever bring diety/ies into my work.
The best way that i can explain my path is that it choose me. In 20 years, i have found that Dragon energy... if you will... is very differant then workingin something that is more"grounded" so to speak. Many people who use Dragon magick do so to enhance their own traditions, but there are a chosen few of us who work in a discaplin of sorts that is outside of the norm of traditional witchcraft.
It is vey much like having an epiphony in your spiritual path that is not able to be explained. You try to wrap your mind around it but you have to come to a conclusion that it cannot be explained.It is like wise, hard for others from different traditions to understand what makes us different.
It has been my expiriance that Dragons are litteral, to the piont, and work very quickly. It is not an energy that is for every one, and i have seen things go very wrong when people dable with it.
I have had people who skoffed at Dragon magick stand on my circles and become ill because they have not shown respect. I have seen others use an in-balance with this energy and actually have it turn on it's self in circle as well. You have to have a good idea of who you are to the core and be a fairly balanced person as a whole to work with that type of energy.
With all respect for you and others who have their ideas of what we do and how it works, how we differ from your way of thinking, It is not something that is explainable in a short post. There is so little known about True Dragon traditions that we are in essence almost exstinct. It never fails to amaze me that once in a while some one will piont out that the Dragon traditions are a lost art or is not really in practice. My favorite cion of phrase is that those who practice Dragon Magick are dark. Those few people that i do know who follow this path have usually lived extraordinary lives, and our histories make our reality on this path differant then others. This may be the case with your friend. In all the years that i have been in the craft, i have been exposed to and worked with a great many traditions. I have always fallen back on my own tradition because nothing else seems to fit my personality as much as this. My foster duaghter follows a form of Dragon tradition that is in many ways very different then mine, and i personally have never met another who follows the same Dragon Tradition simply because no two people will ever have the same history.
Allot of the prinscibles of the Dragon Traditions have to do with ethics and moral standards. Both of which has allot to do with a persons history. The best way to find out how your friend works is to have a heart to heart about the philosophy and science of his craft and not so much about the magick and spells. As you well know, there are many facets of the craft and it is not only about power and knowing how to cast spells. This is sometimes forgotten with those who practice a Dragon tradition. Many in the craft think we just have a d&d kick or a.t.c thing going on with us, but in all honesty, none of those fanticy things even come into play for us. For us, our relationship to Dragon energy is as real, grounded, and emional as any relationship to a goddess or god.
I hope this clears things up a bit chanses are that it has brought up more questions then answers and i am sorry if it has. The fact that i cannot get spell check to work has maybe henderd my explaination and i am sorry for that too.
Merry part. Dragonmask.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

Woopee! :dancy:*points to above quote* That person is me and that's my website. Now I know where all the referal links came from. What do you think of my site so far? Sorry its a bit off topic but I need some feed back. Progress is slow on it I know but juggling the site with studies both magickal and mundane and the job is a bit hard at times.

Please forgive me, but your web design is terrible. Feel free to PM me and I can make some suggestions.

In regards to content, your comment about Apep being the serpent of the dead and winter season, no. It's Re's solar boat and not Horus', and Set is not 'guiding' Apep but harpooning and killing it so Re may safely travel through the Underworld. Also, Apep is not a dragon but is a snake - a sixteen-yard long snake whose head is made of flint. In the tenth hour of the night, before dawn, it comes and tries to encircle and devour Re's boat. Its blood stains the sky and makes it red when the sun rises.

[lightdragon]

Please forgive me, but your web design is terrible. Feel free to PM me and I can make some suggestions.

In regards to content, your comment about Apep being the serpent of the dead and winter season, no. It's Re's solar boat and not Horus', and Set is not 'guiding' Apep but harpooning and killing it so Re may safely travel through the Underworld. Also, Apep is not a dragon but is a snake - a sixteen-yard long snake whose head is made of flint. In the tenth hour of the night, before dawn, it comes and tries to encircle and devour Re's boat. Its blood stains the sky and makes it red when the sun rises.

what section was it in?

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

what section was it in?

'The Dragon's Breath' (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/thedragonsbreath.html)

[lightdragon]

'The Dragon's Breath' (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/thedragonsbreath.html)

thanks.

Also the story of St.George is somewhat messed up. although she doesn't clearly state so.

the traditional St.George might have been paralled with the Greek legend of Perseus and Andromeda. As the Greek tale was in Arsuf or Jaffa which was near Lydda where the St.George legend grew up from. and like what Silverfire Darkmoon said about Apep not being a dragon. Is true in this one, as the monster is a sea monster called Ceto(in the movie "Clash of the titians" it is called The Kraken which is another creature altogether) which was a serpent like seamonster.

although in the most accurate telling of the St.George legend. he was a Roman soldier who was ordered to stop being a Christian and when he refused he was excuted. The emeperor at the time Diocletian was sometimes called "the dragon".

[Lunacie]

Hello, My name is Dragonmask,
I am new to this community and found your post while doing some research. I actually came to this community to find a commonality to what i practice and it sounds like your friend and i have a great deal in common. For 20 years i have practiced a Dragon tradition called the Noktu'rue. I work with nearly only Dragons myself and rarely ever bring diety/ies into my work.
The best way that i can explain my path is that it choose me. In 20 years, i have found that Dragon energy... if you will... is very differant then workingin something that is more"grounded" so to speak. Many people who use Dragon magick do so to enhance their own traditions, but there are a chosen few of us who work in a discaplin of sorts that is outside of the norm of traditional witchcraft.
It is vey much like having an epiphony in your spiritual path that is not able to be explained. You try to wrap your mind around it but you have to come to a conclusion that it cannot be explained.It is like wise, hard for others from different traditions to understand what makes us different.
It has been my expiriance that Dragons are litteral, to the piont, and work very quickly. It is not an energy that is for every one, and i have seen things go very wrong when people dable with it.
I have had people who skoffed at Dragon magick stand on my circles and become ill because they have not shown respect. I have seen others use an in-balance with this energy and actually have it turn on it's self in circle as well. You have to have a good idea of who you are to the core and be a fairly balanced person as a whole to work with that type of energy.
With all respect for you and others who have their ideas of what we do and how it works, how we differ from your way of thinking, It is not something that is explainable in a short post. There is so little known about True Dragon traditions that we are in essence almost exstinct. It never fails to amaze me that once in a while some one will piont out that the Dragon traditions are a lost art or is not really in practice. My favorite cion of phrase is that those who practice Dragon Magick are dark. Those few people that i do know who follow this path have usually lived extraordinary lives, and our histories make our reality on this path differant then others. This may be the case with your friend. In all the years that i have been in the craft, i have been exposed to and worked with a great many traditions. I have always fallen back on my own tradition because nothing else seems to fit my personality as much as this. My foster duaghter follows a form of Dragon tradition that is in many ways very different then mine, and i personally have never met another who follows the same Dragon Tradition simply because no two people will ever have the same history.
Allot of the prinscibles of the Dragon Traditions have to do with ethics and moral standards. Both of which has allot to do with a persons history. The best way to find out how your friend works is to have a heart to heart about the philosophy and science of his craft and not so much about the magick and spells. As you well know, there are many facets of the craft and it is not only about power and knowing how to cast spells. This is sometimes forgotten with those who practice a Dragon tradition. Many in the craft think we just have a d&d kick or a.t.c thing going on with us, but in all honesty, none of those fanticy things even come into play for us. For us, our relationship to Dragon energy is as real, grounded, and emional as any relationship to a goddess or god.
I hope this clears things up a bit chanses are that it has brought up more questions then answers and i am sorry if it has. The fact that i cannot get spell check to work has maybe henderd my explaination and i am sorry for that too.
Merry part. Dragonmask.

Holy Thread Necromancy Dragonmask. 8O

:wave: Welcome to the forum, and I'm glad you've found something that you relate to here, but it looks like the person who started this thread is long gone, hasn't posted here for almost 3 years. There wasn't a lot of discussin on this topic, but you're welcome to see if you can jumpstart it again. I've seen folks around here who work with dragon spirits (but not Dragon Tradition), and they may notice this thread has been reactivated and drop by for a visit.

In fact, I'd be somewhat interested in learning a little bit about it.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

thanks.

Also the story of St.George is somewhat messed up. although she doesn't clearly state so.

the traditional St.George might have been paralled with the Greek legend of Perseus and Andromeda. As the Greek tale was in Arsuf or Jaffa which was near Lydda where the St.George legend grew up from. and like what Silverfire Darkmoon said about Apep not being a dragon. Is true in this one, as the monster is a sea monster called Ceto(in the movie "Clash of the titians" it is called The Kraken which is another creature altogether) which was a serpent like seamonster.

although in the most accurate telling of the St.George legend. he was a Roman soldier who was ordered to stop being a Christian and when he refused he was excuted. The emeperor at the time Diocletian was sometimes called "the dragon".

Diocletian, along with Nero, is one of the possible candidates for the identify of the Beast 666 in the Book of Revelation.

[Milendil]

I know, I know this thread is old but it's still here so there must be something to it.

My take: He is not Wiccan if he claims he worships dragons. The Lord and Lady are very specific deities that have specific names. From an outsider, I doubt that they are dragons for I have never once heard of dragons in Wica. BUt that doesn't mean that there aren't any. I really don't know. If he is actually Wiccan that would explain his secrecy.

[lightdragon]

Diocletian, along with Nero, is one of the possible candidates for the identify of the Beast 666 in the Book of Revelation.

I'll take your word on this one SD. speaking of which, would you believe people in my High school and shortly after believed i was the forth rider.




My take: He is not Wiccan if he claims he worships dragons. The Lord and Lady are very specific deities that have specific names. From an outsider, I doubt that they are dragons for I have never once heard of dragons in Wica. BUt that doesn't mean that there aren't any. I really don't know. If he is actually Wiccan that would explain his secrecy. well if you read Edin McCoy's books, she will list Tiamat as a Goddess and a representation of the Lady. and Tiamat is a dragon. although in Celtic lore the closest I have seen was a theory that the Welsh goddess Rhiannon rode a white dragon instead of a horse.and that is a whole different thing altogether.

[Lunacie]

I'll take your word on this one SD. speaking of which, would you believe people in my High school and shortly after believed i was the forth rider.

well if you read Edin McCoy's books, she will list Tiamat as a Goddess and a representation of the Lady. and Tiamat is a dragon. although in Celtic lore the closest I have seen was a theory that the Welsh goddess Rhiannon rode a white dragon instead of a horse.and that is a whole different thing altogether.

The word around the internet on Edain McCoy's grasp on history is that it's pretty loose. **shrug**

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

The word around the internet on Edain McCoy's grasp on history is that it's pretty loose. **shrug**

The word around the WCC is that Edain McCoy hasn't got a grasp on history at all.

As far as I'm aware Tiamat is a kind of dragon/serpent of chaos type thing. I'll bet David could tell us more, though!

As for the Beast, well, my copy of the Bible says that the earliest known sources say that its number is 616, which Wikipedia backs me up on. It also suggests Domitian as a candidate for the identity of the Beast.

[BlackMagicalCat]

I cant find any serious dragons in Wicca,,the books Mystical Dragon Magick by D J Conway seems like a fairy tale,,along with her other book.

The only serious Dragons I have found are in Luciferian Witchcraft books.
And it so happens I saw Dragons in my dreams,,so my interest in them is high.

It seems the Wiccan dragons are fluffy,,unrealistic,,and gawd awfully moral.
Sorta like disney land dragons, or cute little pets who follow you around wagging their tails.

[lightdragon]

The word around the WCC is that Edain McCoy hasn't got a grasp on history at all.

As far as I'm aware Tiamat is a kind of dragon/serpent of chaos type thing. I'll bet David could tell us more, though!


Well I put my foot in it when i used Edin mcCoy as a source. Her resources are not the best, sadly there are worse people than her. anyhow from wikipedia states that she was used to create the heavens and the earth. although there is no actual mention she is a dragon , it was noted that she gave birth to them.


As for the Beast, well, my copy of the Bible says that the earliest known sources say that its number is 616, which Wikipedia backs me up on. It also suggests Domitian as a candidate for the identity of the Beast.
cool. I guess Iron Maiden is gonna be pissed. their song is inacurate.



The word around the internet on Edain McCoy's grasp on history is that it's pretty loose. **shrug**

[lightdragon]

I cant find any serious dragons in Wicca,,the books Mystical Dragon Magick by D J Conway seems like a fairy tale,,along with her other book.

The only serious Dragons I have found are in Luciferian Witchcraft books.
And it so happens I saw Dragons in my dreams,,so my interest in them is high.

It seems the Wiccan dragons are fluffy,,unrealistic,,and gawd awfully moral.
Sorta like disney land dragons, or cute little pets who follow you around wagging their tails.

Well the two (yes she wrote two) dragon books was mixed with fairy tale and fact. you know it's a bad book when the dragons tell you not to use certain rituals. When working with them for 10 years, they do have high morals(but not that high) are intelligent and will act like dog or cat at times. but if anything you are the pet. But they have a more darker side.

BTW what are the names of those Luciferian Witchcraft books?

[ForestWolf]

I see that no one has been in this thread in a year but it is the thing I have been looking for. I follow Draconic Wicca, or however you want to call it(I'm still kinda new) and I was drawn in by what everyone was saying. I bought one of the books by D.J. Conway because it was the first book I had found that seemed remotely like what I believed. I have been looking for some time and have found practically nothing. None of my other Pagan friends have ever heard of it either but they at least understand and respect that it is my belief. If there is anyone here who might be able to help me learn more or guide me to some better books or such I would appreciate it.

[lightdragon]

I see that no one has been in this thread in a year but it is the thing I have been looking for. I follow Draconic Wicca, or however you want to call it(I'm still kinda new) and I was drawn in by what everyone was saying. I bought one of the books by D.J. Conway because it was the first book I had found that seemed remotely like what I believed. I have been looking for some time and have found practically nothing. None of my other Pagan friends have ever heard of it either but they at least understand and respect that it is my belief. If there is anyone here who might be able to help me learn more or guide me to some better books or such I would appreciate it.

the best way is to ask the dragons themselves.

[Lunacie]

If there are any here who follow Dragon Wicca, they haven't revealed themselves. Have you done a web search or a google for information on Dragon Wicca?

[lightdragon]

If there are any here who follow Dragon Wicca, they haven't revealed themselves. Have you done a web search or a google for information on Dragon Wicca?

I have to agree. but there are people here who work with dragons.
And on my limited knowledge on Dragon Wicca, that is a big difference.

[Lunacie]

I have to agree. but there are people here who work with dragons.
And on my limited knowledge on Dragon Wicca, that is a big difference.

I know there are some here who work with dragons, but I couldn't tell you whether any of them follow Wicca as well, or whether they have combined the two in any meaningful way.

[lightdragon]

I know there are some here who work with dragons, but I couldn't tell you whether any of them follow Wicca as well, or whether they have combined the two in any meaningful way.

I have seen a few pagans that work with dragons. no more than you would with Faeries. Although the Faerie ,ferri and whatever name you call it tradition is different from just working with them.
I'll say no more.

[ForestWolf]

Is there a certain way to do that?

[Cosmic_dragon]

Interesting topic, havent heard of dragon wicca. I agree with LightDragon, ask the dragons themselves.:toofless:

[ForestWolf]

If there are any here who follow Dragon Wicca, they haven't revealed themselves. Have you done a web search or a google for information on Dragon Wicca?

I've tried that but nothing really comes up. I mostly get sites for D&D or WoW or other RPG sites. I did find two sites that had links and one that talked about dragons that was a little helpful.

[ForestWolf]

I have to agree. but there are people here who work with dragons.
And on my limited knowledge on Dragon Wicca, that is a big difference.

How is it a big difference? I want to learn as much as I can about it or paths related to it.

[EverChanging]

Maybe PM the OP of this thread and he could put you in touch with his friend?

[ForestWolf]

Maybe PM the OP of this thread and he could put you in touch with his friend?

I just checked, the OP hasn't been on since '06.

[Lunacie]

I've tried that but nothing really comes up. I mostly get sites for D&D or WoW or other RPG sites. I did find two sites that had links and one that talked about dragons that was a little helpful.

Dragon Wicca didn't ring any bells for me, but I believe I've heard of something called Draconic Wicca:

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/shedevil/Dragonpath.html

[ForestWolf]

Thats the only site I found that wasn't some kind of fantasy site.

[EntwinedScylla]

I'm a member of a NON-Wiccan Tradition (Oath-bound, Initiatory and Mystery-based) which has an important focus on Dragons.

Since it is the type of trad that it is, I can't exactly explain all/any of it, but this is the advice I have:

Ask the dragon/s with whom you work, especially any who are in, or are associated with a "God" role what avenues to pursue.

Study the mythology of Sumeria. It is filled with dragons.

Avoid modern interpretations of Dragons, as they're usually influenced by Post-Christian fairytale. Unless your faith centers around Dragons being bad, you'll probably not get a lot out of that.

Before buying into anything stated by an author, try googling reviews of them. A lot of authors have issues denoting that something is Personal Gnosis, and earn themselves the well-deserved reputation of pulling random stuff outta their bum.

Use caution. They have memories like stone, and are more vengeful than cats if wronged, insulted, mildly annoyed, or otherwise bothered in a way they dislike.

[ChaosLord]

I am really interested in draconic wicca but i have no one to teach me.If there is anyone who follows this path,will you please teach me?

[Simply Puzzled]

I am really interested in draconic wicca but i have no one to teach me.If there is anyone who follows this path,will you please teach me?

Even using a fairly liberal definition of Wicca, I have yet to see a so-called "Draconic Wiccan" tradition that bore any resemblance to actual Wicca.

[Twinkle]

Even using a fairly liberal definition of Wicca, I have yet to see a so-called "Draconic Wiccan" tradition that bore any resemblance to actual Wicca.


This.

However; I did find something explaining what makes it *Wiccan*

Here is an excerpt, I have a number of problems with it, but whatever...

The reason it is called Draconin "Wicca" is because of the similarities to the wiccan religion of today. This religion was originally brought to Earth by the blessed races when Atlantis was formed. The name of the religion itself cannot be pronounced in present English certainly not spelled. This religion was taken away from the Atlantians and Atlantis destroyed.The druids were the descendants of the Old Religion and passed on by mouth.

The spirits God: The god is the male half of the 'divine being'. He has many faces and has known many names. To wiccans, he is known as the horned god, the sun god, and many more. God is not just Father, he is Mate, Consort, Lover, Friend, Brother, Hunter, Husband, Law-giver, and Partner.

Goddess: The goddess is the female half of the 'divine being'. She also has had many faces and many names. Wiccans, druids, and the coven all respect the Maiden, Mother, and Crone aspect of the goddess show in the entire universe.


http://www.angelfire.com/sd/shedevil/whatisdraconicwicca.html

[Ben Gruagach]

This.

However; I did find something explaining what makes it *Wiccan*

Here is an excerpt, I have a number of problems with it, but whatever...

The reason it is called Draconin "Wicca" is because of the similarities to the wiccan religion of today. This religion was originally brought to Earth by the blessed races when Atlantis was formed. The name of the religion itself cannot be pronounced in present English certainly not spelled. This religion was taken away from the Atlantians and Atlantis destroyed.The druids were the descendants of the Old Religion and passed on by mouth.

The spirits God: The god is the male half of the 'divine being'. He has many faces and has known many names. To wiccans, he is known as the horned god, the sun god, and many more. God is not just Father, he is Mate, Consort, Lover, Friend, Brother, Hunter, Husband, Law-giver, and Partner.

Goddess: The goddess is the female half of the 'divine being'. She also has had many faces and many names. Wiccans, druids, and the coven all respect the Maiden, Mother, and Crone aspect of the goddess show in the entire universe.


http://www.angelfire.com/sd/shedevil/whatisdraconicwicca.html
They sound like someone who learned at the feet of Alex Sanders (no disrespect meant to Alexandrians.)

All those details, apart from the dragons, is in "The Alex Sanders Lectures" (http://www.amazon.com/Alex-Sanders-Lectures-Saunders/dp/0939708051 - I don't know why the Amazon page for the book misspells Sanders' last name for the author attribution but that is the page they have for the book.) If Alex had come forward today, teaching the stuff in the book presenting his lectures, he'd have been ignored as a "fluffy bunny."

[Twinkle]

Well, that's the thing - the part where it says how it's like Wicca really has no correlation with the whole dragon thing.

It's like the author talked about dragons and then copied and pasted the rest of the piece together without showing any cohesiveness between the two paths.

So are they dragons, or archetypes, or spirits that make dragons but are also the God/Goddess?

And is there some sort of correlation between Draconians, Druids, Wiccans and the people of Atlantis?

[David19]

Well, that's the thing - the part where it says how it's like Wicca really has no correlation with the whole dragon thing.

It's like the author talked about dragons and then copied and pasted the rest of the piece together without showing any cohesiveness between the two paths.

So are they dragons, or archetypes, or spirits that make dragons but are also the God/Goddess?

And is there some sort of correlation between Draconians, Druids, Wiccans and the people of Atlantis?

Are you really expecting any kind of "sense" from people who think they are "descendants" of Atlanteans or worship Dragon Gods from Atlantis, who apparantly came to Ireland and became the Gods of the Druids (have I got their Mythos right?!)?.

Personally, if they want to worship in that way, good for them, although I am also starting a new Wiccan tradition, it is called The Leprochaun Pirate Tradition, The Goddess came from over the rainbow looking for her gold, but, got stuck here, then she founded the Pirates (who attempted to find her lost gold). We greet each other with a Merry Ahh Matey.

I wonder if Llewellyn will publish me!.

[Twinkle]

I'm so confused!!

I used to know someone a few years ago that practiced Draconian Wicca - but he never talked about it.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

ROTFLMAO...

Ummm...David...

Those two columns of runes , I have spoken of ,
many times...one deals with the colors of the rainbow...

As they are columns of eight , the sum of one to eight ,
inclusive , is 36...which in Obri / Hebrew :

36 = Goddess / God

Then , if we place an "Is / Isa" rune at the top of both
the God , and Goddess columns , the sums of the columns ,
equal : 397 , and 610...

Funny...

Pirates = 397

Pot Of Gold End Of = 610...:smileroll

Greeting + It Will Be Saying : Merry Ahh Matey ,
equal 994...the sum of the two columns , without
the "Is / Isa" runes...:thumbsup:


Are you really expecting any kind of "sense" from people who think they are "descendants" of Atlanteans or worship Dragon Gods from Atlantis, who apparantly came to Ireland and became the Gods of the Druids (have I got their Mythos right?!)?.

Personally, if they want to worship in that way, good for them, although I am also starting a new Wiccan tradition, it is called The Leprochaun Pirate Tradition, The Goddess came from over the rainbow looking for her gold, but, got stuck here, then she founded the Pirates (who attempted to find her lost gold). We greet each other with a Merry Ahh Matey.

I wonder if Llewellyn will publish me!.

[Twinkle]

Thanks Shawn...it's so much clearer, now.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

You can not stand outside the Temple to see the clarity...

You must enter the temple , and study , to understand...

Otherwise it "appears" , gibberish...

And "gibberish" = "Faery"...by number value...:smileroll


Thanks Shawn...it's so much clearer, now.

[Ben Gruagach]

Are you really expecting any kind of "sense" from people who think they are "descendants" of Atlanteans or worship Dragon Gods from Atlantis, who apparantly came to Ireland and became the Gods of the Druids (have I got their Mythos right?!)?.

Personally, if they want to worship in that way, good for them, although I am also starting a new Wiccan tradition, it is called The Leprochaun Pirate Tradition, The Goddess came from over the rainbow looking for her gold, but, got stuck here, then she founded the Pirates (who attempted to find her lost gold). We greet each other with a Merry Ahh Matey.

I wonder if Llewellyn will publish me!.

Personally I think they're about as creative in their myth as most every other religion out there. (Origin stories in particular are almost always rather challenging with regard to historical reality!)

[Twinkle]

I agree that the myths are not literal text...but they are allegorical.

What lessons can be learned from the Druids hanging with the Draconians in Atlantis?

I'm not being facetious - I'd really like to know what sort of *truth* can be gleaned from it.

There's a difference between a myth and story that is trying really hard to sound like it has historical precedence.

[Ben Gruagach]

I agree that the myths are not literal text...but they are allegorical.

What lessons can be learned from the Druids hanging with the Draconians in Atlantis?

I'm not being facetious - I'd really like to know what sort of *truth* can be gleaned from it.

There's a difference between a myth and story that is trying really hard to sound like it has historical precedence.

Perhaps they're trying to link in with the dinosaur age, or are emphasizing non-human perspectives. Only Draconian Wiccans could really answer.