Lesson 2 - Black Magic

[~Elise~]

This could result in a heated discussion--please keep things civil. Remember our rule - RESPECT

Black Magic--does it exist?

This is my point of view on things.
The definition I give my IRL students is that magic is the ability to change reality at will.
Magic is like electricity. It is universal energy out there waiting to be tapped into. There is not white or black electric--there is no white or black magic.
white and black magic get into having a value assigned to them. WE, as society, place that value.

This is just an excerpt from a very long article, That Old Black Magic, by Judy Harrow:

Saying "black" when we mean "evil" is nasty nonsense. In the first place, it reinforces the racist stereotypes that corrupt our society. And that's not all. Whenever we say "black" instead of "bad," we repeat again the big lie that darkness is wrong. It isn't, as people who profess to love Nature should know. Darkness can mean the inside of the womb, and the seed germinating within the Earth, and the chaos that gives rise to all truly new beginnings. In our myths, the one who goes down to the underworld returns with the treasure. Even death, to the pagan understanding, is well-earned rest and comfort, and a preparation for new birth. Using "black" to mean "bad" is a blasphemy against the Crone.

But even if we no longer speak of magic as "black" or "white," we still need to think and speak about the ethics of magic. Although black is not evil, some actions are evil. It simply is not true that anything a person is strong enough or skilled enough to do is OK, nor should doing what we will ever be the whole of the law for us. We need a clear and specific vocabulary that enables us to choose wisely what we will do.

We need to replace the word "black," not simply to drop it. Some Pagans have tried using "negative" as their substitute, but that turned out to be confusing. For some people, "negative" means any spell to diminish or banish anything. Some things - tumors, depression, bigotry - are harmful. There's nothing wrong with a working to get rid of bad stuff. "Left-handed" is another common term for wrongful practice, very traditional, but just as ignorant, superstitious and potentially harmful as the phrase "black magic" itself. So in Proteus we tried using the word "unethical." That's a lot better - free of extraneous and false implications - but still too vague. Gradually, I began to wonder whether using any one word, "black" or "unethical" or whatever, might just be too general and too subjective.

If ethical principles are going to survive the twin tests of time and temptation, people need to understand just what to avoid, and why. Even more important, they need a basis for figuring out what to do instead. Especially when it comes to projective magic.
Projective magic means active workings, the kind in which we project our will out into the world to make some kind of change. This is what most people think of when they use the word magic at all. Quite clearly, magic that may affect other people is magic that can harm. This is the basis of the proverb "a Witch who can't hex can't heal." Either you can raise and direct power, or you can't. Your strength and skill can be used for blessing or for bane. The choice - and the karma - are yours.

Just as some people feel that strength and skill are their own justification, others feel that any projective magic is always wrong - that it is a distraction from our one true goal of union with the Divine or a willful avoidance of the judgements of Karma. I think these attitudes are equally inconsistent with basic pagan philosophy.

We are taught that we will find the Lady within ourselves or not at all, that the Mother of All has been with us from the beginning. We can't now establish a union that was always there. All we can do, all we need to do, is become aware. Knowing what it feels like to heal and empower, again and again till you can't dismiss it as coincidence, is one of the most powerful methods for awakening that awareness. It makes no sense to say that the direct experience and exercise of our indwelling divinity distracts from the Great Work.
Indeed, it is this intimate connection between our magic and our self-realization that our ethics protect. Wrongful use of magic will choke the channel. No short term gain could ever compensate for that.

The karmic argument against practical workings seems to me to arise from a paranoid and defeatist world view. Even if we assume that the hardships in this life were put there by the Gods for a reason, how can we be so sure that the reason was punishment? Perhaps instead of penance to be endured, our difficulties are challenges to be met. Coping and dealing with our problems, learning magical and mundane skills, changing ourselves and our world for the better - in short, growing up - is that not what the Gods of joy and freedom want from us?

One of the most radically different things about a polytheistic belief system is that each one of us has the right, and the need, to choose which God/desses will be the focus of our worship. We make these choices knowing that whatever energies we invoke most often in ritual will shape our own further growth. Spiritual practices are a means of self-programming. So we are responsible for what we worship in a way that people who take their One God as a given are not.

Think about this: what kind of Power actively wants us to submit and suffer, and objects when we develop skills to improve our own lives? Not a Being I'd want to invite around too often!

So it will not work for us to rule out projective magic completely; nor should we. Total prohibitions are as thoughtless as total permissiveness or blind obedience. Ethical and spiritual adults ought to be able to make distinctions and well-reasoned choices. I offer here a start toward analysing what kinds of magic are not ethical for us.

Black magic is magic done for the explicit purpose of causing harm to another person. Usually the reason for it is revenge, and the rationalization is justice. People who defend the practice of baneful magic often ask "but wouldn't you join in cursing another Hitler?"

For adults there is no rule without exceptions. If you think you would never torture somebody, consider this scenario: in just half an hour the bomb will go off, killing everybody in the city, and this terrorist knows where it is hidden....
It's a bad mistake to base your ethics on wildly unlikely cases, since none of us honestly knows how we would react in that kind of extreme. Reasonable ethical statements are statements about the behaviors we expect of ourselves under normally predictable circumstances.

We all get really angry on occasion, and sometimes with good cause. Then revenge can seem like no more than simple justice. The anger is a normal, healthy human reaction, and should not be repressed. But there's no more need to act it out in magic than in physical violence. Instead of going for revenge - and invoking the karmic consequences of baneful magic - identify what you really need. For example, if your anger comes from a feeling that you have been attacked or violated, what you need is protection and safe space. Work for the positive goal, it's both more effective and safer.

But not every other magician is ethical. Psychic attacks do happen. Should we not defend ourselves? Of course we should. Leaving ourselves open to psychic attack is no good example of the autonomy and assertiveness our chosen Gods expect. But first, how can we be sure what we are experiencing really is psychic attack?

The fantasy of psychic attack is often a convenient excuse that allows us to avoid looking at our own shortcomings. When lack of rest or improper nutrition is the cause of illness, or a project isn't completed on time because of distraction, it's a real temptation to put the blame outside ourselves. Doing this too easily betrays our autonomy just as badly as meek submission to attack does. Then, to compound matters, projected blame becomes an excuse for unjust revenge -- and that is baneful magic without excuse.

Once in a rare while, some fool really does try to throw a whammy. It's hard to predict when you might be targeted. Passive shields are always a good idea. Like a mirror, these are totally inactive until somebody sends unwelcome energy. Then a shield will protect you completely and bounce back whatever is being thrown. You may not even know consciously when your shield is working, but the result is perfect justice.
Perfect justice; elegant and efficient. You won't hurt anybody out of paranoia or by mistake. And perfect protection, even though we do not have perfect knowledge.

So, baneful magic, besides being painful in the short run and crippling in the long run, is never necessary. There are better ways of self protection, and retribution is the business of the Gods.

Coercive magic is magic that targets another person to make them give us something we want or need. When most people think of the "Magic Power of Witchcraft," this is what they have in mind.

The spell to make the teacher give you a good grade, or the supervisor give you a good evaluation, the spell to make the personnel officer or renting agent choose you, the spell to attract that cute guy, all are examples of coercive magic.

So, what's wrong with high grades, a good job, a raise, a nice apartment and a sexy lover? There's nothing at all wrong with those goals. An it harm none, do what ye will. As long as nobody is hurt, go for it! But don't strive toward good ends by coercive means.

Are you beginning to think that magic is useless? Did I just rule out all the good stuff: love charms, job magic, spells for good grades? Not at all. It is not only ethical but good for you to do lots of magic to improve your own life. Whenever it works you will get more than you asked for - because along with whatever you asked for comes one more experience of your own effectiveness, your power-from-within.

Work on yourself and your own needs and desires without targeting other people. Then feel free! Ask for what you want. Visualize it and raise power for it and act in accordance on the material plane. "I need a caring and horny lover with a good sense of humor." "I want an affordable apartment near where my coven meets with a tree outside my window." "I need to be at my best when I take that exam next week." Fulfill your dreams, and sometimes let the Gods surprise you with gifts beyond your dreams.


So, what do y'all think? Let the discussion ensue....

Elise

[~Elise~]

Wow--you're awful quiet.... *crickets chirping*

Elise

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, I just read through it, and I'll probably have more to comment on later, but I really liked the part about really analyzing the situation and not blaming ordinary self-induced illness on someone else. I definitely know people who do this (even with other things, assigning a magical significance to a variety of occurrences, even when there's a perfectly feasible 'mundane' reason right there).... I also like where she talked about really identifying the source of one's discomfort. And that passive shielding is very helpful... Hmm... I'll have to reread it a few times.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[~Macha~]

I am inclined to agree.
I think the term "black magic(k)" is horrible... but is there really a "label" we can place on it to change the negative conotations? Any other label is vague... oh well.
As for passive shielding, le the lesson begin! LoL. But I understand that to correctly use shielding, one most first understand what you are shielding against.
Can we discuss physic attacks more in detail... I think I kind of understand, but am slightly confused. Is it like physic/empatic vampires?

[~Elise~]

I am inclined to agree.
I think the term "black magic(k)" is horrible... but is there really a "label" we can place on it to change the negative conotations? Any other label is vague... oh well.
As for passive shielding, le the lesson begin! LoL. But I understand that to correctly use shielding, one most first understand what you are shielding against.
Can we discuss physic attacks more in detail... I think I kind of understand, but am slightly confused. Is it like physic/empatic vampires?

No--psychic vampires usually leech your energy/life force from you. (Remember that person that sucks the life out of a room?)

Psychic attack is someone who directly attacks you on a metaphysical level. They don't happen as often as most people think, but they do happen.

For passive shielding to work....it is something that you consciously work at every day until it is a habit. Then they are up all the time. It took me about 30 days or so in daily practice to get to the point where I only needed to do it weekly, then a few months to where I only needed to do it once a month...you get the point. Now, I only have to strengthen them yearly...or when the rare attack does happen.

Elise

[Sage Rainsong]

I agree to the term black magic being a bad one and pretty much every thing thant was said. However I do not think that psychic attack and curses are rare. Yes of course many people use it as an excuse and often see curses where there are none (boy have I met thoes kind of people.) But it seems that some authors(not you of course) tend to go too far in the other direction and imply that it happens as often as winning the lottery. If you think that you are cursed you are one of thoes crazy people. I avoided doing a whole lot about a psychic attack because I didn't want to be one of "thoes people." What do people think? Sorry if I offended anyone that is not my intention.

[~Elise~]

LOL--yes, I understand your feelings...you don't want to be lumped with those who do use that excuse for everything that goes wrong in their life.

Yes, it does happen. I have had it happen to myself. But I can count on my hands, and not have to use my toes, the number of times it has actually happened to me. I try not to make a big deal out of them...it just gives the other person power. IMO anyway

Elise

[AstralMagick]

Overall, I pretty much agree with this. :clapping:

I've heard that many who try to curse someone or send out (insert term) magic don't get results anyways. I can understand that many just do it on a whim when they don't have the slightest clue on how to work magic would not get the effect they wanted. Then, there are those who have practiced magic for a bit and decide it's time to get revenge on someone (or send out (insert term) magic). Wouldn't that be effective?

[BrigidMoon]

I loved this lesson. I have been learning not to be afraid of what I want but just be smart about it. To me black magic has always been the intent to harm others. However, there must be some change and abrupt change sometimes. Hope I don't sound too fluffy. I am trying to learn where the boundaries are etc. I don't create spells often due to the fear factor.

[AstralMagick]

I loved this lesson. I have been learning not to be afraid of what I want but just be smart about it. To me black magic has always been the intent to harm others. However, there must be some change and abrupt change sometimes. Hope I don't sound too fluffy. I am trying to learn where the boundaries are etc. I don't create spells often due to the fear factor.
I've found that it really is hard to find a definition of magic that is harmful that everyone will accept. At times I'm pretty confused about what's ok to do and what's not because of this 'An e harm none, do what ye will' thing. I really think of all the possible outcomes of something sometimes and I'm always able to find a way that would be harmful. Sometimes I just do some magic without going through everything because 1. I already know something could go wrong and 2. I get tired of not doing anything.

[~Elise~]

I've found that it really is hard to find a definition of magic that is harmful that everyone will accept. At times I'm pretty confused about what's ok to do and what's not because of this 'An e harm none, do what ye will' thing. I really think of all the possible outcomes of something sometimes and I'm always able to find a way that would be harmful. Sometimes I just do some magic without going through everything because 1. I already know something could go wrong and 2. I get tired of not doing anything.

1) when you do spellwork--you literally go through a visualization and see every possible outcome...if you don't like that outcome, you close the door on it. As you close that door, go to the next until the result that you want is the only possibility left.

2) I'm not Wiccan and do not use the rede...just my own ethics of what is right and wrong. I tend to agree with the majority of the article, so I'm not worried about my own ethics.

The parts I don't agree with are karmic in nature...I don't believe in the Three-fold rule. I do believe what goes around, comes around however.

In fact, I saw that in action today in spades. My right actions in other arenas just came home to roost today, I guess. Someone on this board read my journal and paypal-ed the money to me to buy my son's kilt for my handfasting. Hell, I'm in tears now writing about it. All I can do is accept semi-gracefully and say thank you.

Elise

[AstralMagick]

1) when you do spellwork--you literally go through a visualization and see every possible outcome...if you don't like that outcome, you close the door on it. As you close that door, go to the next until the result that you want is the only possibility left.

2) I'm not Wiccan and do not use the rede...just my own ethics of what is right and wrong. I tend to agree with the majority of the article, so I'm not worried about my own ethics.

The parts I don't agree with are karmic in nature...I don't believe in the Three-fold rule. I do believe what goes around, comes around however.

In fact, I saw that in action today in spades. My right actions in other arenas just came home to roost today, I guess. Someone on this board read my journal and paypal-ed the money to me to buy my son's kilt for my handfasting. Hell, I'm in tears now writing about it. All I can do is accept semi-gracefully and say thank you.

Elise
I'm not Wiccan also, but I do believe in the harm to none. The 1. you suggested would work nicely now though. :adidas: I'll be able to do something and not worry about the concequences. :ugh:

[~Elise~]

I'm not Wiccan also, but I do believe in the harm to none. The 1. you suggested would work nicely now though. :adidas: I'll be able to do something and not worry about the concequences. :ugh:

It is a nice way to do make sure there aren't as many surprises when you do a spell. I actually learned that from Francesca DeGrandis. I took some training with her for a bit.

Elise

[Jendell]

black magic....why would some one even want to do that any way? it is harmfull(or so they say) you know if some one was trying to harm some one trought magic, there should be a back fire or some ting!

[wicked_craft]

im still in a little ahhh to it all, its alot to take in for me HAHHA but what i could understand is that you should do many spells, not to be greedy or harm anyone but do alot of spells? am i right? im sorry if im not....:(

and about the black magic and white magic, i dont like labels in the first place no matter what so i agree ALOT on that part. but i think i have to read through it agian to understand a little more but i think i got the important stuff right HAHA

[~Elise~]

No, it isn't about doing a lot of spells. It is about ethics of magic and also the labels that we've assigned to it. The purpose of this lesson is to show that there is not such a thing as 'black magic', per se.

Spells for oneself are acceptable, BUT you have to be careful in your wording of any spells and to close the door on unacceptable outcomes.

In fact, one should always be very careful in wording of spells, the Universe has just enough of a sense of humor to grant our wishes sometimes.

Elise

[~Elise~]

black magic....why would some one even want to do that any way? it is harmfull(or so they say) you know if some one was trying to harm some one trought magic, there should be a back fire or some ting!

Well, this is the real world and not everyone has good ethics when it comes to magic and not everyone is nice. That is the purpose of the class--to defend yourself against people like that.

Elise

[eric2001]

I read through your post, and I'm inclined to agree with what it says.
The term "black magick" is one I never did like. There are too many things that can fall into that category without being evil. And that can make things really confusing when your trying to discuss it with someone. The part about passive shielding sounded like a good way to deal with the possibility of psychic attacks.

[eric2001]

In fact, one should always be very careful in wording of spells, the Universe has just enough of a sense of humor to grant our wishes sometimes.

I read somewhere that when writing spells, its a good idea to put ""safety clauses" into the spells. Phrases like "in a safe manner that harms no one" to prevent against unintended results.

[PeleRising]

I agree with what you have written. I have never liked the term Black Magic...

Passive shielding sounds like the way to go to protect yourself... I look forward to reading what you have to say about it.

[PeleRising]

I read somewhere that when writing spells, its a good idea to put ""safety clauses" into the spells. Phrases like "in a safe manner that harms no one" to prevent against unintended results.

In her book Positive Magic, Marion Weinstein recommends ending with something like... "For the good of all, according to free will, so mote it be." I like using this or something like it because even though I try to think through all the possible ramifications of my actions... this helps cover any bases I might have missed. :)

[AstralMagick]

In her book Positive Magic, Marion Weinstein recommends ending with something like... "For the good of all, according to free will, so mote it be." I like using this or something like it because even though I try to think through all the possible ramifications of my actions... this helps cover any bases I might have missed. :)
I don't really like having the way my spell ends on just words like that. I often say something like that, but I wouldn't trust those words to keep from something bad happening.

[Dawa Lhamo]

I don't really like having the way my spell ends on just words like that. I often say something like that, but I wouldn't trust those words to keep from something bad happening.I think it depends on how the rest of your spell goes. If those words are contrary to the rest of the spell, then they alone wouldn't be enough. But if your entire spell is carefully written with the idea in mind and then you add those words, well, I won't deny the power of words. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[wicked_craft]

ok thanks, but for now for me i really dont want to do any spells im more into learning at the moment i want to do more research before i jump into it i want to get more ocnfidence towards doing a spell..i guess im just nervous

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, confidence is definitely what you'll need. For spellwork, and for protection. Without confidence, well, things tend not to work so well... ^_^ In fact, in my experience, having a very nervous personality can draw unhappy 'things' toward you... ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[~Elise~]

Exactly right...what energy you put out around you is what you draw back to yourself. Like attracts like.

Elise

[Lunacie]

Hey Pearls, I know I didn't sign up for this class, but I've been reading along and I have a question. I hope it's okay to go ahead and ask, but if not, just tell me to "siddown an' shaddup". ;)

I've seen quite a few people saying that hexes and curses (black magic) will only work against you if you believe in them. I know what my own personal experience tells me about this, but I wondered what your own beliefs are about the effectiveness of projected magic against unbelievers?

[AstralMagick]

ok thanks, but for now for me i really dont want to do any spells im more into learning at the moment i want to do more research before i jump into it i want to get more ocnfidence towards doing a spell..i guess im just nervous
I've found that if I'm calm during a ritual or spell it works better than if I'm nervous because I'm paying more attention to what I'm doing. Instead of having 'am I doing this right's in my mind, I am concentrating on the energy I'm working with. I'm sure you'd do fine with the confidence you're searching for and it's probably closer than you think.:)

[~Elise~]

Hey Pearls, I know I didn't sign up for this class, but I've been reading along and I have a question. I hope it's okay to go ahead and ask, but if not, just tell me to "siddown an' shaddup". ;)

I've seen quite a few people saying that hexes and curses (black magic) will only work against you if you believe in them. I know what my own personal experience tells me about this, but I wondered what your own beliefs are about the effectiveness of projected magic against unbelievers?


Personally, I believe that they will work whether you believe or not. Shalaye Sabariego has a example of just that very thing happening to her. It is in the Story Exchange thread, I believe. She didn't believe and it devasted her anyway.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[yemayashija]

bendicion,

well as for black magick, as so many call it. well truthfully i love it to death. it's very interesting to me, and it comes very easily to me. but i don't really agree with categorizing magick at all by color or anything. magick is magick, it is not good or evil. it is the practitioner's intent that is good or evil. it is the practitioner (or thrower) of the spell that summons their power from either their benevolent emotions or feeds off their "darker" or as i like to call them their more passionate emotions. for example:
benevolent- through prayer, attempts to heal, to elavate spiritually, etc.
passionate- love, hate, greed, envy, lust.

i think people fear magick that is fueled by passionate feelings more because, it is easier to build a high power base and it is much harder to control; meaning it is harder to reverse or dissolve.

i think all magick has it's place and every practitioner should learn as much as they can about each aspect, because it is harder to combat the unknown. even if you never practice what you have learned....the knowledge can assist in cleansings and recognizing or formulating better reversal spells.

as for believing in magick thrown at you, well; if you believe in it it will definitely effect you. but, also, if the person throwing has a deep belief in what they have done, it will work whether you believe or not. but then these are just my beliefs.

yemayashija

[Lunacie]

Thank you both. It's good to see I'm not the only one who believes this.

Off to look for Shalaye's story.....

[SilverClaw]

Ok I am not sure what to think.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Hmmm... I think that if some little dabbler or someone unpracticed tries to throw something at me, then simply not believing in it makes a big difference. Because belief is thought and thoughts have power in magic. And I think the same goes for some not-very-powerful entities out there.

However, I think that if the curse is sent by someone who really believes deeply, or someone practiced in magic, then it requires something more than belief to repel it. The same with many entities. That's why this class is necessary. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[~Elise~]

Yes, you are right in those statements.

Elise

[Teresa]

Exactly right...what energy you put out around you is what you draw back to yourself. Like attracts like.

Elise
That has always been my position ! Therefore I try to be considerate and careful what I send out even when I am angry or upset.I feel it is my obligation to think first and act later.I think what I have been practising would be considered a passive shield.When I first started working on it I had used the term"What You attempt to do to me has already come back to You ".I used some candles and burned some things in my cauldron along with that written down on a piece of paper and chanted some and raised energies and practised my shielding and visualized a protective barrier sending back what was bounced off of it.

[Teresa]

You wanna know something funny? Please say yes {LOL} before reading on!I said I was not taught how to defend myself by my grandparents presay. Looking back though,I do recall my grandmother using things that could be termed as "wards" and the likes around our home when I was growing up.She also used things outside and she made me things too. "good luck" charms and the likes.No maybe she never really came out and said I am doing this to protect our home or to protect You. But maybe,just maybe she assumed I understood what she was doing.I recently caught myself doing something I had seen her do on a regular basis.It is actually a form of home protection "folk magic way".I guess somethings that I called superstitutions were actually forms of protection.My grandmoter also had what was called back in the day "The Sight" something I too shared.She was also a healer known throughout the community.I grew up in a rural area somewhat foothills of N.C. When I graduated I had a scholarship to U.N.C.C. I came to the big city still wearing my "rose colored" glasses.I was taught old fashioned values and remember never having to lock the doors at nite.Boy were my eyes opened.My first Christmas in the big city,I lived in a small apartment in a seedy area of town.I was also a manager at a resturant.Being low man on the totem pole I had to go by and make sure everything was turned off and locked up at the store before I was able to head home to visit my grandparents. This store was 10 minutes from where I lived. I went back to my apt to find someone had taken everything even the phone I had hidden under my bed .I couldn't even call 911.( Yes I locked my doors.) I did not realize that I should have nailed my windows shut! That was my first realization that everyone does not mean You well. Also that some people just don't care and will take Your things.Reality Flash! Not Everyone has the same Values as me!!My Grandmother gave me some kind of oil to use on every entrance way and window of my apartment to bring back with me. She also gave me some stones to put in the corners in my apt.She told me how to do these things but she never said You are doing this to ............I look back and wonder if I was just not paying attention or was she assuming that I just knew.My grandma came to me in a dream this week. We talked in it. I accused her of not teaching me how to protect myself and asking her why she never told me there were bad people in the big world.
Her reply was "I had You help me do these things so You would know. I also remember telling you about the "white man" and how we were forced to move here.They took our land and drove us from it.I thought You were listening.I thought You understood.I am sorry you were hurt."Then she wrapped her arms around me and hugged me and I cried on her shoulder like when I was little.I am teary eyed now just recalling this.I loved her so much and I miss her dearly!I apologize for saying she never taught me! I was not paying attention. :woah:

[Briana]

Quite an excellent article. It really gets your mind thinking. I do believe in the Rede and before I was Pagan I believed in Karma. The discussion on changing the 'black' to unethical was quite good.

Now the part about "a Witch who can't hex can't heal" I do not agree with. Putting out positive energy can make you just as strong (stronger at some point down the line when the person that does unethical magic gets the whiplash).

I read the first sentence of this Lesson about a week before I had time to sit down and read it through. During this time I thought over the fact that you said you did not follow the Rede...and that this Lesson could get very interesting. So I thought over the Rede and asked myself if there was ever a time when there would be, as you put it, an exception. My conclusion was yes...ONLY after exhausting all convention resources. Things that came to mind were child molestors, rapists, etc. Yes, it would have to be VERY drastic if I were to send a spell such as binding at someone. Now using a psychic mirror directed at the attacker, I do not agree with. I believe that the bad energy should be sent out into the environment to be dispersed.

Your last paragraph...of having the magic focused at you and not others was quite good. Don't do a spell to make yourself win but maybe help you to be calm and focused.

So here we get into the whole philosophy. Yes I believe in the Rede (with some exceptions...they have to be drastic tho), yes I believe in Karma and finally yes, I do believe that the troubles we go thru in life may be a lesson that we need to learn or someone around us does. Okay...here's where my mind slipped off its normal course. What if the lesson we were to learn...was with magic???

I just had another thought after I saved this. Okay we go back to the mirror of protection. Now we put it in a physical type of scenario. If someone physically attacked me...I will fight back. However, if I am able to subdue the person with as little damage as possible I would hope I would use that (I do have a wee bit of a temper...). Moving further along this line of thought...if I could not subdue this person, I would fight me hardest until he/she was no longer a threat...self preservation. Now if there was a way to prevent the physical attack in the first place I would take that route. Okay, back to the mirror. If I have my shields up, then I would therefore be preventing the attack and I would not need to 'attack' he/she back...because I am protected.

Blessings,
Briana

[~Elise~]

Quite an excellent article. It really gets your mind thinking. I do believe in the Rede and before I was Pagan I believed in Karma. The discussion on changing the 'black' to unethical was quite good.

Now the part about "a Witch who can't hex can't heal" I do not agree with. Putting out positive energy can make you just as strong (stronger at some point down the line when the person that does unethical magic gets the whiplash).
Yes, but you have to know how to kill to heal. To cure someone of a tumor or cancer, I have to know how to use the darker forces to kill the cancer/tumor/illness.


I just had another thought after I saved this. Okay we go back to the mirror of protection. Now we put it in a physical type of scenario. If someone physically attacked me...I will fight back. However, if I am able to subdue the person with as little damage as possible I would hope I would use that (I do have a wee bit of a temper...). Moving further along this line of thought...if I could not subdue this person, I would fight me hardest until he/she was no longer a threat...self preservation. Now if there was a way to prevent the physical attack in the first place I would take that route. Okay, back to the mirror. If I have my shields up, then I would therefore be preventing the attack and I would not need to 'attack' he/she back...because I am protected.

Blessings,
Briana

Exactly--that is the point of this class...I want you to be able to present enough of a defense that the majority of the people won't want to mess with you. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Most people will go find an easier target.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[KissMeImIrish!]

hmmm, going to think on this further, not quite sure what i think. I know i dont follow the rede 100% as far as KARMA goes, but im still trying to figure out how to put it in words. I still very strongly believe in the saying "a witch that can;t curse can't heal" (in an abridged version of course :) )

[Greybird]

To set things in perspective, I don't really call myself wiccan - I've drifted a bit from there, but I'm not too far from it. I follow the extended/complete version of the rede ("An it harm none, do as you will; an it harm some, do as you must.") I don't specifically believe in either karma or the threefold law, but I do believe in the general concept of what you put out returning to you. I feel it is more subtle - more of a 'like attracts like' situation than a cosmic equation, but I don't even remotely believe that everything that happens is influenced by it - I call it the "Law of Shit Happens." While your actions do influence your life, sometimes bad things happen, sometimes good things happen, regardless of your actions.

Anyway, I see magic as a natural part of life, not as some sort of 'apart from humanity' type of force we're allowed to borrow. It certainly is divine, a part of the divine, and a connection to the divine, but so is everything else - wind, electricity, the sun, thumb tacks, people.

As such, I don't consider it innately good, evil, or neutral - it is just a natural force. Wind blows, thumb tacks stick, and magic... er... magics. Is the sun good or evil? It is responsible for life, but it is also responsible for several deadly diseases. It isn't good or evil; it is just a natural force. Magic is also just a natural force, and can be used to hurt or heal. It isn't the magic that is good or evil, it is the way it is used.

As to terms, I do find 'black magic', 'white magic' and so on to be meaningless. I'm not really one for semantics, and tend to get annoyed when people try to change a well-established term for some sublte shade of meaning (like 'black magic' = racial term :eyebrow: ), but this, to me, doesn't fall into that category. This one is just plain misleading, as there is no such thing as innately different types of magic. It almost shifts the responsiblity from the person taking actions and onto the actions themselves, which is just silly.

As to whether belief in magic is necessary - heck no. Accepting that, first of all, is changing magic from a natural force into a placebo, a psychological trick. The power of suggestion is a real thing, yes, but no magic of any sort is required for it - if someone believes strongly enough that they are cursed, the actual curse isn't even necessary. Magic is a natural force, and if done properly, will do what it does. Let me put it this way - electricity is another natural force. If I get hit by lightning, I will get crispy whether I believe in electricity or not.

[lia_amberwolf]

there is no black, there is no white... magick is a tool... My high priest likes to use the analogy of it being like a gun. In the right hands it can protect and even save people... in the wrong hands it can become a tool of destrustion... well... that's my 2 cents anyway

[Lunacie]

As to terms, I do find 'black magic', 'white magic' and so on to be meaningless. I'm not really one for semantics, and tend to get annoyed when people try to change a well-established term for some sublte shade of meaning (like 'black magic' = racial term :eyebrow: ), but this, to me, doesn't fall into that category. This one is just plain misleading, as there is no such thing as innately different types of magic. It almost shifts the responsiblity from the person taking actions and onto the actions themselves, which is just silly.

As to whether belief in magic is necessary - heck no. Accepting that, first of all, is changing magic from a natural force into a placebo, a psychological trick. The power of suggestion is a real thing, yes, but no magic of any sort is required for it - if someone believes strongly enough that they are cursed, the actual curse isn't even necessary. Magic is a natural force, and if done properly, will do what it does. Let me put it this way - electricity is another natural force. If I get hit by lightning, I will get crispy whether I believe in electricity or not.

Two very good points here (IMO). People are responsible for any effects from magic/spells they do, not the spells themselves. And magic is an energy that can affect us whether we believe in it or not. Thank you for your coherent explanations.

[~Elise~]

As to whether belief in magic is necessary - heck no. Accepting that, first of all, is changing magic from a natural force into a placebo, a psychological trick. The power of suggestion is a real thing, yes, but no magic of any sort is required for it - if someone believes strongly enough that they are cursed, the actual curse isn't even necessary. Magic is a natural force, and if done properly, will do what it does. Let me put it this way - electricity is another natural force. If I get hit by lightning, I will get crispy whether I believe in electricity or not.

I love this...It is one of the explanations I've read.

Elise

[~Elise~]

Lesson Three will be posted on Monday or Tuesday. I spent 10 am to 3:30 pm yesterday teaching a Reiki 1 class and then conducted Public Ritual at 7 PM. We had a bunch of people over after that having a sendoff for one of my group headed into the military and they didn't leave until midnight.
I have another Reiki L1 class today, as well. So I haven't had anytime to write the next lesson.

Elise

[SilverClaw]

Look forward to the next lesson wheneer it is up :D

[KissMeImIrish!]

IMO magick is just energy, and energy has no leanings towards good/bad, black or white. Much like a volcano, which could be viewed as "bad" by people whos lives it may alter, but which in reality is neither good nor bad, magick just is. It is a tool, like many have said here already, and can be used for good or bad. But then again, good/bad are very abstract in themselves-and who on earth truly knows the absolute meaning of both?

[Devi]

Saying "black" when we mean "evil" is nasty nonsense. In the first place, it reinforces the racist stereotypes that corrupt our society. And that's not all. Whenever we say "black" instead of "bad," we repeat again the big lie that darkness is wrong. It isn't, as people who profess to love Nature should know. Darkness can mean the inside of the womb, and the seed germinating within the Earth, and the chaos that gives rise to all truly new beginnings. In our myths, the one who goes down to the underworld returns with the treasure. Even death, to the pagan understanding, is well-earned rest and comfort, and a preparation for new birth. Using "black" to mean "bad" is a blasphemy against the Crone.


I have always thought the term black magic as a negative term very strange. I also think of magick as just that and however the person uses it depends on them. I also can see the racial implications of this and so I try not to use the term. I also wonder how this term came about or better how magick got divided into white and black somehow I don't think it was always so.



The karmic argument against practical workings seems to me to arise from a paranoid and defeatist world view. Even if we assume that the hardships in this life were put there by the Gods for a reason, how can we be so sure that the reason was punishment? Perhaps instead of penance to be endured, our difficulties are challenges to be met. Coping and dealing with our problems, learning magical and mundane skills, changing ourselves and our world for the better - in short, growing up - is that not what the Gods of joy and freedom want from us?

One of the most radically different things about a polytheistic belief system is that each one of us has the right, and the need, to choose which God/desses will be the focus of our worship. We make these choices knowing that whatever energies we invoke most often in ritual will shape our own further growth. Spiritual practices are a means of self-programming. So we are responsible for what we worship in a way that people who take their One God as a given are not.

Think about this: what kind of Power actively wants us to submit and suffer, and objects when we develop skills to improve our own lives? Not a Being I'd want to invite around too often!

These are my beliefs also. I do think hardships and troubles can be things to help us grow and learn but I don't think its something you just sit and let happen without a fight. The lesson could be learning your ability to protect yourself instead of learning to accept whatever comes your way as a karmic finality. Yes I believe in karma but not in this way.

[AstralMagick]

[QUOTE=Devi]I have always thought the term black magic as a negative term very strange. I also think of magick as just that and however the person uses it depends on them. I also can see the racial implications of this and so I try not to use the term. I also wonder how this term came about or better how magick got divided into white and black somehow I don't think it was always so.
QUOTE]
I believe that the terms 'black' and 'white' came about as in the night, because of lack of light, people came to fear it because of what might be lurking in the darkness. Then, when it was day, they were grateful for the light because it uncloaked those who would not be seen in darkness.

[Teresa]

People are responsible for any effects from magic/spells they do, not the spells themselves. And magic is an energy that can affect us whether we believe in it or not.
This is how I feel about the subject since my experience with someone who was trying to destroy me.I did not believe in "roots" at the time but yet it impacted my life so much that I had no choice but to believe it can affect You whether or not You do believe.

[AstralMagick]

I've been wondering, does anyone here consider summoning dead to be a form of 'black' magic? :hmmmmm:

[~Elise~]

I've been wondering, does anyone here consider summoning dead to be a form of 'black' magic? :hmmmmm:

What purpose are you summoning them for?

I don't consider it black magic but then ancestral work is a big part of my path. BUT--to be honest, why summon...they are around you all the time anyway. It is as easy as thinking of them in your mind and just talking to them.

JMO

Elise

[AstralMagick]

What purpose are you summoning them for?

I don't consider it black magic but then ancestral work is a big part of my path. BUT--to be honest, why summon...they are around you all the time anyway. It is as easy as thinking of them in your mind and just talking to them.

JMO

Elise
I wasn't really thinking of anything in specific, just in general.

[~Elise~]

I wasn't really thinking of anything in specific, just in general.

Just personal opinion here--but this applies if you are summoning dead other than your ancestors....ya better have a darn good reason other than just a whim or just to see if you can do it.

JMO, however and YMMV,

Elise

[yemayashija]

ACHE! i agree, spirits are not to be toyed with. sometimes what or who you think you have summoned is not what you really have.

[~Elise~]

Had to make a trip to OKC today to pick up Rick's son for the week. New lesson will go up tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!

Elise

[Hazel BlueMoon]

This is all very good information. It's wierd because I really agree with all of this, it's just I never know how to explain it to myself and others. I mean, everything has balence. If you never had challenges or obstacles in life, then how sweet would good things really be?
About the psychic attacks, yes, it's rare, but there are very very bad and evil people out there, I mean, I don't know, what they are, they're sick or mental. I just know that I'm sure it would come in handy for a Witch to protect oneself against a possible attacker. Even if they're intentions are mundane, and your's are magickal.
Hmm...
Blessed Be.

[Bix]

Sorry this is pretty late, but I'll post anyway.

The article really gave me a perspective on magical workings. I was kinda one of those people that would categorize magical workings into black or white, but now I'm not so sure. I like it that somebody said magic is just that, magic and related it to a gun. I'll have to really think on this more to give a better response. Thanks for the article!

[Carickah]

In many ways, I agree with Bix. Magic(k) is more akin to a gun, or more appropriately a tool like a knife. It can be used in many different ways and for many different reasons... itself neither black or white, good or evil... but the motivation behind the use determines it's karmic disposition.

Based on this, I understand when someone says "black magic" what they are referring to, but don't care to use the label myself. Unlike many people, I don't see black as automatically evil. I, personally enjoy the color, but would not choose to have it as the sole color surrounding me.



k

[wooleybob]

I agree that there is (Black magic) and White magic..I am Wiccan and only deal with White,because it is pure,unlike the old days of Black magic,where evil and sacurefices of humans,and animals to use in rite's.I have seen to much bad things happen with people who dabble on the dark side.I have many of books that I have read and yes I have and have read the Santanic Bible,VERY nasty.!!!..That book is put away from all my magical works and books of good..I keep it locked up in a shed hidden..It is a very scarry book and dont understand why anyone would want to live by it,But thats just my opion and hold no grudge to anyone who want to live by it..Just please be careful...I belive in harming none and will stick with that,the only way I would send a spell back to someone,is that they would have had to do a very bad thing to me..But I always send it back with love and no harm to the person..