Lesson Two Goddesses/Asyniur

[mothwench]

afaik, berchta is the name given to holda (frigg?) in the southern regions of germany, and also there are folk dances known as perchtentanz in austria and i think switzerland. holda is the name in northern germany.

i also have a theory that berchta might have celtic influence. (similar to nehalennia) because the name berchta or perchte crops up in the very regions the celts settled, with the exception of saxony and other parts of the former east, where i believe she is called frau holle.

[Nantonos]

I was checking out tacitus Germania, - its online in both english translation and the original Latin - and came across this:

VIII. Tradition says that armies already wavering and giving way have been rallied by women who, with earnest entreaties and bosoms laid bare, have vividly represented the horrors of captivity, which the Germans fear with such extreme dread on behalf of their women, that the strongest tie by which a state can be bound is the being required to give, among the number of hostages, maidens of noble birth. They even believe that the sex has a certain sanctity and prescience, and they do not despise their counsels, or make light of their answers. In Vespasian's days we saw Veleda, long regarded by many as a divinity. In former times, too, they venerated Aurinia, and many other women, but not with servile flatteries, or with sham deification.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...;layout=;loc=7

Veleda was a priestess or prophetess; hadn't heard of Aurinia before.

[Nantonos]

More Tacitus, chapter 9

Some of the Suevi also sacrifice to Isis. Of the occasion and origin of this foreign rite I have discovered nothing, but that the image, which is fashioned like a light galley, indicates an imported worship. The Germans, however, do not consider it consistent with the grandeur of celestial beings to confine the gods within walls, or to liken them to the form of any human countenance. They consecrate woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to the abstraction which they see only in spiritual worship

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...;layout=;loc=8

Presumably Isis, like Mercury etc, is a roman interpretation and not the actual name used.So who was this goddess of the Suebi (who lived nowhere near the sea) with an image ina 'light galley'?

Possible echo of the boat of Sequanna, though.

[Nantonos]

Tacitus 40 (this is the section referred to by aefentid)

XL. To the Langobardi, on the contrary, their scanty numbers are a distinction. Though surrounded by a host of most powerful tribes, they are safe, not by submitting, but by daring the perils of war. Next come the Reudigni, the Aviones, the Anglii, the Varini, the Eudoses+, the Suardones, and Nuithones who are fenced in by rivers or forests. None of these tribes have any noteworthy feature, except their common worship of Ertha, or mother-Earth, and their belief that she interposes in human affairs, and visits the nations in her car. In an island of the ocean there is a sacred grove, and within it a consecrated chariot, covered over with a garment. Only one priest is permitted to touch it. He can perceive the presence of the goddess in this sacred recess, and walks by her side with the utmost reverence as she is drawn along by heifers. It is a season of rejoicing, and festivity reigns wherever she deigns to go and be received. They do not go to battle or wear arms; every weapon is under lock; peace and quiet are known and welcomed only at these times, till the goddess, weary of human intercourse, is at length restored by the same priest to her temple. Afterwards the car, the vestments, and, if you like to believe it, the divinity herself, are purified in a secret lake. Slaves perform the rite, who are instantly swallowed up by its waters. Hence arises a mysterious terror and a pious ignorance concerning the nature of that which is seen only by men doomed to die. This branch indeed of the Suevi stretches into the remoter regions of Germany.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...layout=;loc=39

I see that the translator rendered the goddess as Ertha. Lets see what the latin says:

XL. Contra Langobardos paucitas nobilitat: plurimis ac valentissimis nationibus cincti non per obsequium sed proeliis et periclitando tuti sunt+. Reudigni deinde et Aviones et Anglii et Varini et Eudoses et Suarines et [2] Nuitones fluminibus aut silvis muniuntur. nec quicquam notabile in singulis, nisi quod+ in commune Nerthum, id est Terram matrem, colunt eamque intervenire rebus hominum, invehi populis arbitrantur. est in insula Oceani castum nemus+, dicatumque in eo vehiculum+, veste contectum; [3] attingere uni sacerdoti concessum. is adesse penetrali deam intellegit vectamque bubus feminis multa cum veneratione prosequitur. laeti tunc dies, festa loca, quaecumque [4] adventu hospitioque dignatur. non bella ineunt, non arma sumunt; clausum omne ferrum; pax et quies tunc tantum nota, tunc tantum amata, donec idem sacerdos satiatam [5] conversatione mortalium deam templo reddat. mox vehiculum et vestis et, si credere velis, numen ipsum secreto lacu abluitur. servi ministrant, quos statim idem lacus haurit. arcanus+ hinc terror+ sanctaque+ ignorantia+, quid+ sit illud+ quod tantum perituri vident.

Nerthum, so the root name would indeed be Nerthus, here identified with Terra Mater.

[Nitefalle]

It seems to me that every time Loki is insulting a goddess, he refers to her many lovers, basically calling her a slut. What was the view on fidelity at the time? Was Loki just a mysoginist or was that really considered an insult at that time?

~N~

[aefentid]

Originally Posted by Nitefalle

It seems to me that every time Loki is insulting a goddess, he refers to her many lovers, basically calling her a slut. What was the view on fidelity at the time? Was Loki just a mysoginist or was that really considered an insult at that time?

~N~

It would be an insult fidelity was considered important then, on the other hand it's probable that most of Loki's insults had some basis in the lore. Another interesting thing is how Njord reacts to Loki's insults towards Freyja, after Loki accuses Freyja of sleeping with everyone including her own brother, Njord her father defends her but not by saying Loki's a liar instead he basically defends Freyja's right to have lovers, which has made me wonder if the issue of fidelity and monogamy were a little different among the worshippers of the Vanir.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Nantonos]

Originally Posted by aefentid

It would be an insult fidelity was considered important then

Yes, although what makes it mysogenist is that none of her lovers are considered unfaithful the emphasis is more on 'unchaste woman' than 'fidelity for man and woman'.

The Frowe

Does this have anything to do with the German name for woman? I know it's frau, maybe spelled different.

Maybe I am overlooking it, but is there anywhere in this forum that has the associations of which God/Goddesses are affiliated with which runes?

[frigga]

The runes forum here may have something posted about god/dess rune affiliation. If not, just ask!