Menrva, Minerva & Athena

[TheBlackThorn]

I have recently been researching the etruscan pantheon and had come across, Menrva, who had the primary ruling over wisdom and the arts. She obviously is the original Roman Minerva. Was Menrva/Minerva also considered free from men, as the Goddess Athena was, or did she have a consort; like Sethlans/Vulcan (as both protected and encouraged blacksmiths/artisans etc.)

What do you think? What exactly differentiates Menrva from Minerva, Minerva from Athena, and Athena from Menrva?

[Pandoras]

Interesting.

I'm not too familiar with the Etruscans. I thought that Menrva was the Etruscan version of Athena and that she was portrayed in a similar way (with shield and spear). I've read that she was born from the head of Tinia, the supreme sky god of the Etruscans, and is essentially the predecessor of the Roman goddess Minerva.

The only real difference that I see between Minerva and Athena is that Minerva is associated with medicine and science more than Athena and Athena is associated with justice and the law more than Minerva. But I see them as basically equals in terms of other associations - wisdom, the arts, war. Also, Minerva was often worshipped together with Jupiter and Juno, with whom she formed a powerful triad of gods. I think the Etruscan Menrva was the same way with Tinia and Uni. Athena was important, but I'm not sure that she was so closely tied to Zeus and Hera.

I don't know. I basically see all three of them as the same.

[TYRRHENUS]

Hi. Just a warning... practically nothing is known of the Etruscans, as you've probably already read. The only things that we can be sure of is that they comprised a relatively insignificant civilization which began to decline three centuries after it appeared. There are a number of works on etruscheria - a collection of claims made during the 19th & early 20th century (for political reasons I don't need to get into) that everything in Rome was due to the Etruscans. Unfortunately these have not been translated yet, but it is something to look out for in the near future. Also, last I heard we only have about 14,000 Etruscan inscriptions with a total of about 9,000 words. As most of these are funerary and contain a large number of proper nouns, this would mean that even if an Etruscan Rosetta stone were found tomorrow, the Etruscans would still not tell us much. I only want to get this out of the way before someone enters this thread and begins to claim that they are descended from the Etruscans, speak the language, blah blah blah... (its happened before actually.)
That being said, there is no evidence that Menrva preceded Minerva. The oldest piece of statuary of the Athena archetype in the Italian peninsula is from the Sant'Omobono sanctuary in the Musei Capitolini, forged by a Greek sculptor, and is contemporary with Etruscan statuary. The similarities of the names only hints that Etruria had a linguistic influence over Latium to the south. (We will never know what linguistic impact the Latins may have had on their neighbors to the north.) Yet Cicero tells us that Minerva gets her name 'because she either humbles (minuere) or threatens (minari).' (De Natura Deorum 2.69.)
Now that I've babbled, I will admit that Minerva derives from an Athena archetype. Yet the two certainly diverged over the centuries. This happens to be the exact opposite of many Roman deities who were uniquely Roman only to be hellenized at a later date.
The Oscans called her Catanai, sometimes Ciistai. She was married to Hercules while Athena was not. She also gave birth to Maris. (Athena never gave birth, I think. Better ask Nallia or someone better suited to answer that.)
Minerva had dominion over knowledge, handicrafts, time and healing (Minerva Medica). Though Bellona was a much older goddess relating to war, Minerva was worshipped for her strategy. Over time the handicrafts and knowledge aspects appeared less and less. (Understandable for a society with a military-industrial complex, I think.)
Her association with time goes way back to when Lucius Manlius hammered a nail into the sanctuary of Minerva so as to cast a shadow - a rudimentary sundial I would think.
The Romans also called her Minerva Sospita (the saving Minerva). Minerva is intrinsically tied to the Republic. (Cicero, De Domo sua ad Pontifices 144-5.) As such, the later emperors loved to share a denarius with her. Which reminds me... a few years ago I went to D.C. and was surprised how much her iconography appears there. So it is pretty clear to me what the Forefathers had in mind.
Anyway, Pandoras is correct with the Capitoline Triad. Whether this was in emulation of some Greek triad, I dunno. The earliest I know of is in Livy's Ab Urbe Condita 3.17 when describing Herdonius seizing the Capitol; 'Jupiter, lord of all, Juno the queen, Minerva, and all the company of heaven.'
One more thing, Ovid's Fasti 6.652 he calls her 'blonde Minerva' for some reason.

[Agaliha]

Seems like an interesting thread...
Something else I found about the Etruscan Menrva/Menrfa:

Menrfa, or Menrva, is the Etruscan name of the Goddess of Wisdom and the Arts, who in Rome would be known as Minerva, and who corresponds to the Greek Athene. She is the Goddess of the mind, of crafts, artisans and trade guilds, and did not have a martial character until She was identified with Athene, who was brought to south-western Italy by Greek settlers. She was worshipped by workers and craftspeople, and was the patroness of the arts and learning, of engraving, weaving, painting, sculpture, dyeing, spinning, and teachers and students.

Menrfa could be considered a Goddess of Healing as well. Her temple in Veii, the famous Portonaccio temple, contained three cella or chambers, implying a triad of Deities were worshipped there, probably Menrfa, Turan, and Artimi (Artemis) or Aplu (Apollo). Excavations there have found a basin that had been piped to receive the local sulphurous water, a type of water often considered to have healing properties; and votive offerings in the form of terracotta body parts, commonly given by people seeking healing of those parts, were also found. It is thought that some part of the worship at Her temple in Veii included the giving of oracles; whether these were attributed to Menrfa or to one of the other Deities there (for example Aplu/Apollo, who was the patron God at the Oracle at Delphi in Greece) is not known.

The name Menrfa is cognate to the Latin Minerva, which finds its roots in the Latin mens, or "mind, reason, intellect". There has been long debate on whether "Menrfa" derives from Latin also, or if it is in fact of Etruscan origins, borrowed into Latin (for though Latin and Etruscan are not related languages, they were certainly close enough geographically to borrow and loan words now and again). However, within the area of Etruria were a tribe of people called the Faliscans, whose capitol city of Falerii (the modern Cività Castellana) was a cult-center of Menrfa. The Faliscans spoke a dialect closely related to Latin, though they were Etruscan enough that Falerii was considered one of the twelve cities of the Etruscan federation, and so my guess is that "Menrfa" is a Faliscan word, that looks Latin because Faliscan is so closely related. When Falerii was captured by Rome in 241 BCE, the worship of their Menrfa was brought to Rome as Minerva Capta ("Minerva the Captive", probably referring to the physical transfer of Her cult-statue to Rome). Though this event was traditionally held to mark the beginning of Minerva's worship in Rome, this is unlikely—since Menrfa was one of the major Etruscan Goddesses, said to have a temple in every Etruscan city, one would guess Rome had heard of Her before. Besides which, Her temple on the Aventine Hill in Rome most likely pre-dates the capture of Falerii.

Menrfa was one of the three main Etruscan Deities, with Uni and Tinia, the Earth Mother and Sky Father, who would later be known as the Capitoline triad of Juno, Jupiter, and Minerva, so named because of a temple with three chambers that They shared on the Capitoline Hill in Rome. The three of them had the power to wield thunderbolts, considered major portents by the Etruscans and the Romans.

Menrfa was usually depicted much like Athene was in a long chiton and helmet, carrying a spear and shield, with one major difference: like many Etruscan Deities, Menrfa was often given wings. Since the Etruscans had from early times had contact with the Greeks their Menrfa bore attributes of Athene almost from the get-go, and it is difficult to tell what Menrfa was originally like before Greek influence set in. There are, however, some depictions that show Her in Her civilian clothes, as it were: generally these depict scenes from the Judgment of Paris, a Greek tale in which the hero Paris or Alexandros is compelled to choose which of three Goddesses is the most beautiful: between Hera, Athene and Aphrodite (the Etruscan Uni, Menrfa and Turan), he chooses Aphrodite, and the resulting bad blood (not to mention his elopement with Helen, the most beautiful woman in the world, given as Aphrodite's bribe for his vote) leads to the Trojan War. In one Etruscan depiction of this legend, Menrfa is shown in a long red dress that is belted at the waist, with a wreath on Her head, carrying another in Her left hand. In Her right hand is the only indication of Her warrior tendencies, a spear. Her hair is dark and hangs down Her back to the middle of Her thigh, and She wears the curly-toed boots that were peculiarly Etruscan.

Menrfa is frequently associated with Hercle (the Etruscan Herakles), as Athene was with Herakles; one mirror shows Her leading Him to the Hydra, which would be His second labor. Like Athene She wears the aegis, but no helmet, and unlike Athene She has a thin staff instead of a spear, and a pair of wings. Very much unlike the traditional Greek idea of the virgin Athene, Menrfa seems to have been the mother to a son (or a triplicity of sons) called Maris, whose father was Hercle, and in whom some see a predecessor of the great Roman God Mars.

She was known in Oscan lands as Catanai or Ciistai. She may be related to Nortia, an Etruscan Goddess quite like the Roman Fortuna.

Alternate spellings: Menarva, Menerva, Meneruva, Menrva, Menarea, Mera

From: thaliatook.com, obscure goddesses online directory: Menrfa