Druidism, Druidry, Druidic??

[Adam Of Avalon]

From what I've heard some Druids practice magick and some don't. What's the skivvy? And by the way, what's the correct term, Druidism of Druidry?

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Adam Of Avalon
From what I've heard some Druids practice magick and some don't. What's the skivvy? And by the way, what's the correct term, Druidism of Druidry?

It depends on what your definition of magick is,

I've seen both terms, I don't believe one is 'more correct' than another.

There is a Druid forum where this was discussed recently, you should still be able to find those messages.

Regards,

Maggie

[eneurian]

i believe its a matter of semantics. druidism is a label used when refering to the way of life as a religion, druidry is a label for the practice of the way of life.
i often lapse back into my early teachings for reference but i think this is much akin to: Hebrew is the language, Judaism is the religion, Israeli is the nationality...druidism is the religion, druidry is the way of life.
i think of majik as something natural that you don't yet know how to do. we all 'do majik' something as simple as conjuring a parking place or something large and with great responsibility as conjuring a rainy day for your own pleasure. once you know how to do it, it is no longer majik.

[WildSpirit]

Adam, it's a pleasure to get to answer your questions.

Initially, the practice of magick is really more of a chosen desire among the practicioner. A Wiccan could be a Wiccan and not practice magick (my mother actually goes along those lines). It is simply the fact that magick is an aspect of mysticism, which is in hand an aspect of most, if not all, Pagan ways of life.

Druidry and Druidism are two different terms, aye. Druidism is simply the name used to label the Druid religion as a religion; Druidry is the label for the ways of life that a Druid follows. I know this sounds confusing, but think on it, and it should make sense.

I hope these answers are of help.

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by Adam Of Avalon
From what I've heard some Druids practice magick and some don't. What's the skivvy? And by the way, what's the correct term, Druidism of Druidry?

Insofar as I'm concerned, "druidism" isn't a proper word at all - in fact, I'm rather affronted by its use. But insofar as the practice of magic... That depends on the person. For most of us, doing magic is as natural as breathing. Others don't use it unless it's absolutely necessary. But such magic is rarely ritual magic. When one is more practiced, it doesn't take much more than a focusing of the mind and will.

[Raindancer]

I'm Wicca, not Druid, although many people who know me say that they are surprised at that, as they figured me to be more druid. I don't know, and I really don't know enough about the Druidic way to make a call on that. I used to live in a forest and feel a real affinity for that, but I don't know. I consider myself a simple... well maybe not too simple kitchen witch.

Anyway... I was interested in some of the comments on doing magick. I've done it in various forms, and I consider divination a form of it, but my personal feeling is that its like a martial art, to be used when really necessary, and then, with a sense of responsibility.

As actions all have consequences, some of which can't be predicted, it seems kind of reckless to be mucking around with a lot of energy, like a kid with a machine gun. All without considering that you may end up getting something a lot different than what you wanted, taking everyone else with you. There should be balance, and capricious frollicking about with magickal energies just has to mess with that considerably. But thats my thoughts, and that, along with a dollar, will buy you a cup of coffee ( somewhere) :-)

I concur with Draeconin's statement : " Others don't use it unless it's absolutely necessary. But such magic is rarely ritual magic. When one is more practiced, it doesn't take much more than a focusing of the mind and will." Thats mostly what I do: picture it and make it happen. I just discovered along the way, that I didn't need a lot of stuff anymore. But magick, I think, is a lot like spices, a little, used well can go a long way. Not every dish is meant to taste like curry. Again, thats just my thoughts...
BB
Raindancer

[Raindancer]

MM... I don't know if that was pointed in my direction, but if it is, let me clarify.

I didn't say I was a druid, I don't know enough about it to make that claim. Perhaps if I did, I might be, but at present, its something that some people seem to think I might be at home with. I don't know, maybe. I grew up in the forest and llove and miss my redwods way out here.

I didn't say I don't do magick, but I like to use it with discretion. Not every situation calls for it, a lot I can do other ways. Its been my impression that one of the negative aspects of the Judeo-Christian belief system, is that they use the words in the bible relating to creation, the ones where it says man was made to rule over the earth and the animals on it, to mean that we can do whatever we like.

As we all know, or should, just going out and doing something without thinking about what the consequences might be, is just plain asking for trouble. You wouldn't just go out somewhere and build something without an environmental impact study, or at least I wouldn't. So with magick. I consider whether its called for first, then I act. In my opinion, there's been far too much interfering with nature without thought for the consequences.

I've had cause before to act, have done so, and will if needed again. But just as I stopped doing Tarot readings for the just curious/bored and now reserve it for those truly in need ( who are sent to me by God and Goddess) so I would not do magick just to do it. I believe that you don't just put forces in motion just to see them move. Maybe I'm just wierd.

I do rituals, but they are simple kitchen witchy mostly connecting with and celebrating Mom and Dad, the seasons, and to thank Them for everything They've done for me, and to send love healing, and protection to all who have need known to me or not. Ritual is an act of love for me, not an opportunity to play with the universe.

So I call myself a Wiccan Kitchen witch for lack of a better term. I just don't feel that how much or how little magick I do is particularly relevant, likewise my rituals. I'm not big into elaborate ritual. I get more out of going outside with Mom on Esbat night and spending some time with Her, and exchanging a big cosmic I love you and embrace. Thats my religion, and thats my way. The magick is in the love.

If I've misinterpreted your post Lucidfire, sorry, but it seemed pointed at me and somewhat critical, I hope I've at least clarified myself. I WOULD like to know more about the Druid path though so that I might learn from it. If anyone can help or point me in the right direction, I would be grateful.
BB
Raindancer

[eneurian]

in reading this whole thread i find that even though there are some minor contradictions and a little bit of tension (perception)...i think we are all right. i think the actual contradiction is in verbal semantics. i realize that any verbal race or species will have a word for every concept they perceive but i think that the human error is that we have too many words. and every generation feels they have the right to change the meanings of them. in the bigger picture i don't feel we should seperate and label differences in religion, philosophy, science, math, psychology, and a load of other things that we need to use to live correctly everyday. that is the basis of the life that existed before people started labeling everything. the beings that built stonehenge did not seperate and label different cells and sections of their lives. they lived them.
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[Raindancer]

I agree that the problems lie in words. I think its not exactly too many words, but in some cases, not enough words and too many meanings. Not enough subtlety and preciseness of words to explain the nuances of thought behind the words. We are forced to do, in a sense, brain surgery with a kitchen knife.

We all have these non-verbalised concepts bouncing around in our brains, but somehow we first need to try to fit that into the arsenal of words to understand them ourselves. But then we know what we mean even if we can't say it exactly.

Ah, but then we have to bridge the gap of understanding, perception, experience and all the rest between us and someone we may not have even met before, and try to communicate what we have experienced and understood to them. The best we can hope for is that somehow they will have a Satori, and know exactly what you mean. Even then, we won't and can't know if they really did, or thought they did.

Lucidfire and I had an exchange, based on misperception. I'm fairly sure that if you could look at what we really meant, you would find that we are pretty close. In trying to explain that, however, it is so hard to see that, because even with a common language, there are so many possible meanings for the same words (coming from different understandings and experience) so many words with the same meanings, that sometimes its a wonder we can get anything across.

I also agree that a lot of the problem is that we are so used to categorising separating what needs to be looked at as a whole into some kind of psychic/psychologiacl stamp collection. Thats a result of the trend toward standardisation, and scientification of all areas of study, be it psychology, science, Botany, you name it.

Trouble is we aren't categories, we're people, people with the same cussed persistent human nature that has confounded philosophers since the Greeks constructed their "Ideal" societies. They intellectually constructed these perfect ways to live, and didn't take into account that people just aren't that way.

Perhaps there may be use in categorisation in certain areas, but until we learn to find other holistic inclusive ways to understand our lives and the universe we're part of, we may see lots of trees, but we won't see the forest.

Blessings
Raindancer

[Maggie]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

As one poster said--the question of 'druid' really comes down to a matter of sematics. I've started a thread before on this topic, asking people what they thought of when they heard the word 'druid'--got a variety of answers. I suspect that if one goes through the druid sites on the web, you'll find way more definitions.........

The problem IS what is the meaning of the word 'druid'. I've said this before--I tend toward the celtic recon viewpoint, especially since I came to this Path through history, in a way. TO ME (TO ME TO ME) the word 'druid' has a very specific meaning. It refers to a function in a celtic society during a specific time period. In this context the druid was the 'top dog' in a group that was responsible for holding the laws, the religion, the healing arts, the bardic arts, etc..........the druid was simply the most educated of the bunch, having attained that position by virtue of rising through all the skills in the arts held within that function. His position within that society was that of religious leader and advisor to the king. Additionally, what people appear to be referring to when they talk about druidism is actually celtic paganism, or the common religion of the society. They were the leaders and the keepers of that religion, not the originators. That religion existed before the function of druid evolved, not the other way around. Calling the religion 'druidism' makes as much sense as calling Christianity 'priestism'. Because of this--MY OPINION HERE--I personally don't believe that anyone can be a druid in the old sense. Modern society has fragmented all those functions of the druid class into separate groups and in America we have separated church and state in a fashion that the old druids probably wouldn't understand nor accept--the function and purpose of 'druid' no longer has a place in our society, never mind the fact that we no longer live in that society. Therefore, I tend to think of myself as a celtic pagan. However, this leads into my second point.............

The word 'druid' has taken on new meanings in modern society. This is perfectly normal, ordinary and has happened from time immemorial. Once a language stops changing, stops being part of a living community, it dies. HOWEVER, this means that there IS NO ONE definition of 'druid' any longer. On this point, because there is none, my own personal philosophy is pretty much 'whatever floats your boat'. There are a couple of points that I do feel need to be considered here. I've noticed a couple of commonalities in most of the druid groups I've seen. One is that the druid religion is nature-based. I don't think that's a good point to base it on because ALL pre-industrial indigenous religions world-wide were nature-based, in a way that was (and is) pretty much the beginning point of any such. Since the term and function of 'druid' was celtic-based, I feel modern groups should at least make an attempt to form a base in that society's world views if they're going to use that word. The second is to make the druid into some sort of mysterious perfectly in tune with the universe and reclusive fount of universal truth. No. No. No. Such inflation distorts the truth about them and their religion in such a way as to make what they did say and did believe and did do almost unrecognizable. IMO, it also dishonors what they actually were and did teach and obscures the fact that they were intimately connected to their community and fully involved in the life of that community. For a good sense of how I see this, I can only recommend books like __The Apple Branch__ and __ReKindling the Celtic Spirit__. Both of them talk about actually incorporating these things into daily life in a non-archaic manner. Another very very good book to illustrate some of these points is __The Celtic Consciousness__ ed. by Robert O'Driscoll. To quote one blurb:

"Immensely detailed, consistantly surprising....a convincing expmaple of the unique qualities of a specifically 'Celtic' consciousness, gathering the riches of diverse, often little known recent research, drawing the participants from many disciplines and several continents...THE CELTIC CONSCIOUSNESS is a supurb celebration of the eternal qualities of that culture, and a statement of faith in its continuing relevance."

This is a collection of essays on subjects ranging from prehistoric to modern times actually talking about what it meant and means to be celtic in today's society. Extremely thought provoking.........

Okay, guys, now let fly!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Maggie