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  • odubhain
    replied
    Originally posted by BryonMorrigan View Post
    The key word in my first sentence was "fiction."
    I'll definitely read more carefully from now on. I completely missed that coming into the conversation on page 2.

    Writers definitely need to catch the rabbit first before all that other stuff. Non-fiction writers can make their mark with their potential reading public in other venues than writing. That's probably why they have more options. Professors have their students. Businesses have their employees. Politicians have their enemies and religious people have their folowers and cohorts as a market.

    I think the best thing would be to get interviewed on CNN or a major network to really boost sales.

    My friend (signature below) pays her dues the hard way through work, work and more work in shows, demos, lectures, book signings and radio/TV interviews on the local level. She and my wife are getting ready for this month's RT convention in Columbus, Ohio.

    Searles O'Dubhain

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  • BryonMorrigan
    replied
    Originally posted by odubhain View Post
    Not only are your words wise in this matter, but you wisdom has the truth of experience to sustain it.

    Thanks for you POV and for your efforts.

    Searles O'Dubhain
    The key word in my first sentence was "fiction."

    Leave a comment:


  • odubhain
    replied
    Originally posted by Lupabitch View Post
    "3. No publisher is ever going to touch you"

    That's a really broad generalization based on the usual scare hype of the dinosaurs of traditional publishing. While in a lot of cases a self-published author won't get picked up, a lot of the time it's because their writing is subpar to begin with.

    And at least in the pagan and occult publishing field, self-publishing can actually get you picked up by a publisher--Robert Bartlett's "Real Alchemy", which got nabbed by Weiser, is one example that comes to mind.

    The publishing industry won't change if people don't take risks to change it.
    Not only are your words wise in this matter, but your wisdom has the truth of experience to sustain it.

    Thanks for you POV and for your efforts.

    Searles O'Dubhain
    Last edited by odubhain; April 4th, 2010, 08:50 PM. Reason: you => your

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  • Aeon Flux
    replied
    Originally posted by Lupabitch View Post
    "3. No publisher is ever going to touch you"

    That's a really broad generalization based on the usual scare hype of the dinosaurs of traditional publishing. While in a lot of cases a self-published author won't get picked up, a lot of the time it's because their writing is subpar to begin with.

    And at least in the pagan and occult publishing field, self-publishing can actually get you picked up by a publisher--Robert Bartlett's "Real Alchemy", which got nabbed by Weiser, is one example that comes to mind.

    The publishing industry won't change if people don't take risks to change it.
    Of coarse it's a really broad generalization, however I don't think that the "pagan and occult" publishing field is a good example of the rest of it.

    And fiction vs non-fiction are two very different things. I would usually specify Non-fiction authors as just that "Non-Fiction Authors".

    Truth be told, I don't know if I think the publishing industry should change in the way of music and movies as such. They're very different mediums in a lot of senses... Sure, the publishing executives pays should be cut down significantly, but the same goes for a lot of "higher ups".

    Authors (good ones) in general are under payed, under appreciated for the time and effort they put into their works.

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  • CatsAreGods
    replied
    Originally posted by Lupabitch View Post
    The publishing industry won't change if people don't take risks to change it.
    That's a good axiom for life in the world, too...thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lupagreenwolf
    replied
    "3. No publisher is ever going to touch you"

    That's a really broad generalization based on the usual scare hype of the dinosaurs of traditional publishing. While in a lot of cases a self-published author won't get picked up, a lot of the time it's because their writing is subpar to begin with.

    And at least in the pagan and occult publishing field, self-publishing can actually get you picked up by a publisher--Robert Bartlett's "Real Alchemy", which got nabbed by Weiser, is one example that comes to mind.

    The publishing industry won't change if people don't take risks to change it.

    Leave a comment:


  • CatsAreGods
    replied
    As someone with 30+ years of professional writing, editing, and publishing experience...and almost that long on the Internet...

    This is all true, as far as it goes. But just as the music industry has seen its traditional hold over bands collapse with the onset of "self-publishing" (i.e. bands recording, mixing, and producing themselves (something I also know quite a bit about)), and just as the movie industry is seeing all kinds of new directors coming out of the woodwork with self-published box office hits (Blair Witch Project, etc.), the book industry is next going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, and I hope all the overpaid, name-dropping stuck-up book executives lose their jobs and expense accounts soon :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeon Flux
    replied
    Self-publication is usually not the way to go if you want to be a serious writer until you have a fan base.
    The reasons are many.

    Fist of all, it takes time and effort to get a publishing firm to notice you properly. You have to send out things to EVERYONE and be prepared to not get an OK from anyone your first time around. (One at a time! Not several at once)
    That's how things work when you start from scratch!

    Unfortunately a lot of the good self-published writers fail to recognize this and are shooting themselves in the foot, because once you've gone down that road, there might be no turning back.

    It takes years of writing, years of perfecting your manuscripts and years of sending them out, one at a time, to publishers If you send out more than one at a time publishers are going to turn you down.

    And if you go with self-publishing you risk:
    1. to have a far below good quality book
    2. risk a lot of money and then sitting there with hundreds of copies of it
    3. No publisher is ever going to touch you
    4. Never learning to evolve and progress because no one's telling you what you're doing wrong

    You're not an author just because you write a book, you're not an artist just because you drew a picture, you're not an actor because you were in a school play, you're not a recording artist just because you recorded a song in the school's recording studio and your uncle bought it.

    An author WILL put the hard work in, will agonize by having their manuscript rejected of the 100th publisher... and an author will keep on trying.
    The goal is to be a published author, and self-publication rarely counts.
    It's like a scientist claiming publications when they've printed the magazine out themselves on the local lab's printer.

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, and the easy way is rarely, if ever, the right way to go.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lupagreenwolf
    replied
    A few considerations:

    --The author is writing about self-publishing fiction. Publishing and marketing fiction and nonfiction are two different worlds. With nonfic, it's a lot easier to figure out who your specific target audience is, and it's also much easier to compare your work to existing works on the topic at hand, which makes selling the book easier. I don't self-pub, other than a couple of small ebooklets that I make available for free, but I do work with a small press that uses print on demand technology (and functions as a traditional publisher in all other ways), and there are ways around the not getting into the big box stores thing. Again, though, for fiction it can be different.

    --The publishing industry is changing. Most of the people who are balking at things like self-publishing, ebooks, print on demand technology, etc. are older people who have been in the industry a good long while, as are the people who are still currently in charge. However, the consumer base is changing as technology changes, and I think we're going to see less stigmatizing of non-traditional routes (though vanity presses still need to be drawn and quartered).

    --I agree that if you're going to self-publish, hire an editor. The problem isn't self-published authors. The problem is self-published authors who don't hire professional editors.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zibblsnrt
    replied
    Originally posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    I have a few of Rowling's books myself, the difference is that despite their fluffy plots and even writing styles, they're still well written. Meyer's writing is comparison to a high school student's creative writing assignment.
    Yeah, that's why I specified Baen novels.

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  • Infinite Grey
    replied
    Originally posted by Zibblsnrt View Post
    Folks can have multiple levels of taste, too. I've got a number of Baen-published books or books from the Harry Potter series among my SF/F collection, but there's also plenty of Alastair Reynolds and Robert Charles Wilson there too.

    The fluffier stuff can have a pretty wide appeal, but it certainly doesn't mean a lot - certainly not all, of course! - of those people aren't also going for various more sophisticated pieces of work with smaller target audiences. (And of course, once something becomes popular enough people read it for social reasons as much as for its own sake.)
    Oh don't get me wrong, I love me a good does of "junk food" novels, Novellas & Novelettes. I have a few of Rowling's books myself, the difference is that despite their fluffy plots and even writing styles, they're still well written. Meyer's writing is comparison to a high school student's creative writing assignment. The only real redeeming feature of the Twilight series is the endearing supporting characters.

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  • Zibblsnrt
    replied
    Originally posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    No doubt, some are also inexplicably popular, for example Stephenie Meyer. I'll never understand why such below average writing can be so successful, it says a lot about current standards.
    Folks can have multiple levels of taste, too. I've got a number of Baen-published books or books from the Harry Potter series among my SF/F collection, but there's also plenty of Alastair Reynolds and Robert Charles Wilson there too.

    The fluffier stuff can have a pretty wide appeal, but it certainly doesn't mean a lot - certainly not all, of course! - of those people aren't also going for various more sophisticated pieces of work with smaller target audiences. (And of course, once something becomes popular enough people read it for social reasons as much as for its own sake.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Infinite Grey
    replied
    Originally posted by Zibblsnrt View Post
    To be fair, for every decent traditionally-published novel there's probably at 500,000,000 really pooperiffic traditionally-published ones.
    No doubt, some are also inexplicably popular, for example Stephenie Meyer. I'll never understand why such below average writing can be so successful, it says a lot about current standards.

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  • Zibblsnrt
    replied
    Originally posted by BryonMorrigan View Post
    ...but at least they're gettin' a paycheck outta it! (As opposed to the self-published author, whose only paychecks most likely come from the friends and family members who bought his/her book out of pity.)
    A lot of published writers would probably find that a small comfort.

    I dunno, anyway. Either form of publishing isn't going to lead to a lot of money for anyone out of a fairly lucky few in any case. I definitely like people paying attention to how the process works, though, and as far as Yog's Law is being observed by the writers, more power to them in any case.

    Leave a comment:


  • BryonMorrigan
    replied
    Originally posted by Zibblsnrt View Post
    To be fair, for every decent traditionally-published novel there's probably at 500,000,000 really pooperiffic traditionally-published ones.
    ...but at least they're gettin' a paycheck outta it! (As opposed to the self-published author, whose only paychecks most likely come from the friends and family members who bought his/her book out of pity.)

    Leave a comment:

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