Can people direct karma?

[Polypseudonymous Rex]

Hey ya, Darth. I'm actually always looking for how people feel on the topic of charging for magical services, even when they disagree. I thought long and hard about charging. Right now in my life, it's pretty much a moot point because I only make a couple of thousand a year for such services. But I do think it's fair to be compensated when - and only when - people can afford it. Coming to that point was a big struggle for me, which is why I'm always wanting to hear opinions about it. Also, my coven sets limits on how much someone can earn per year before having to give all the rest to charity. I'm not saying everyone should do that, but it's how I work. This may even be a topic for another thread, but I thought I'd mention it here.

Xentor, I like your cookie analogy.

Terra, excellent comments from you, too. I used to cast what I called "reciprocity" spells. They couldn't change karma, but they could change time. The result was that the person's karma caught up to them more quickly. I have now stopped doing this on the following assumption. If someone is having trouble learning one lesson, they are going to be even more stumped if multiple lessons come calling. They will probably become overwhelmed and could give up before they actually try to become better persons. Therefore, I don't reflect negative energy. I just let the universe sort that out on its own. But that's just my personal philosophy, and I might very well make an exception if someone I loved were being threatened.

Someone also mentioned that people at this old "coven" might be casting spells against me (but I can't find it looking back over the responses just at the moment). Yes, they sometimes do, but it hasn't presented a problem so far. I will seek help if I need it, but I'm thinking I probably won't; I've taken a lot of time in the past working on psychic self-defense and that work has kept me safe so far. Also, this group doesn't know or teach a whole lot about protection, which has worked to my advantage.

[Nesta]

Ok. I was recently looking over some old e-mails I got from the leadership of an online coven when I left about a year ago. There are several messages where people say things like, "We still care about you" or "We'll always respect you despite your leaving" or whatever. But then the same people (often in the same messages) say things like, "I hope karma busts your a$$" or "If I have anything to do with it, karma will rip you to shreds over this."

So, I don't get it. Are they talking about karma "teaching me a lesson" as totally separate from their wishes and actions or are they spurring karma on (and I know some of these people well enough to think it's the latter)?

Here's why this is important to me: I don't think karma can be directed by persons - in fact, I think it's pretty arrogant to think so. Yes, I can tell someone to be careful how their actions will return to them, but I can't tell them what I want or hope karma will do.

I see karma as a force of nature - like gravity. It would be really silly of me to try to enforce gravity. That's why I'm always puzzled when people try to use karma as a weapon. What do you think? Should we try to dictate, speed up, slow down, etc. people's karma - or is it silly to think it's even possible? I know I've already tipped my hat as to how I feel on this topic, but I still encourage anyone to disagree with me if they feel differently.

I think it's best to get on with things, do your very best in everything you want to do and let karma take care of itself.

[Humming Bird]

Ok. I was recently looking over some old e-mails I got from the leadership of an online coven when I left about a year ago. There are several messages where people say things like, "We still care about you" or "We'll always respect you despite your leaving" or whatever. But then the same people (often in the same messages) say things like, "I hope karma busts your a$$" or "If I have anything to do with it, karma will rip you to shreds over this."

So, I don't get it. Are they talking about karma "teaching me a lesson" as totally separate from their wishes and actions or are they spurring karma on (and I know some of these people well enough to think it's the latter)?

Here's why this is important to me: I don't think karma can be directed by persons - in fact, I think it's pretty arrogant to think so. Yes, I can tell someone to be careful how their actions will return to them, but I can't tell them what I want or hope karma will do.

I see karma as a force of nature - like gravity. It would be really silly of me to try to enforce gravity. That's why I'm always puzzled when people try to use karma as a weapon. What do you think? Should we try to dictate, speed up, slow down, etc. people's karma - or is it silly to think it's even possible? I know I've already tipped my hat as to how I feel on this topic, but I still encourage anyone to disagree with me if they feel differently.

If by Karma you mean as it is understood in the East, it arises out of ones interactions and pathworking, so you do direct your own Karma though most do it unaware. Becoming aware of ones karma, the ongoing process thereof, one is not caught up or ensnared it, and thus escape the unbalanced patterns and incarnations they've been trapped in.

As for what people make of karma i don't know.... but i can tell you that people who talk of Karma the way you've described how only an appropriated understand of what it is, and thus are unable to work their Karma let alone influence someone elses... Karma is in essence the relationship between ones actions/will and ones obstacles and consequences ie. fate. Karma is an expression of the Dharma- the work, being on the path. What you do this moment dermines what path is emerging before you. This relationship is Karma.

If i wanted to mess up someones Karma, I've got to get them to do it because it arises from them, so what I'd do is cast something to get them to work against themselves, their own best interests... so they'll be too busy with karmic obstacles to bother me. To be honest, the nastiest stuff out there gets people to beat themselves up under their own power.

so simply put, keep mind of yourself, where you are at, what you need to do for the best possible path. If you work on you, the less they will be able to manipulate you and your karma.

I'd replace "Western" with "bastardized," but that's just me.

[Anima Nera]

As understood by Eastern Traditions such as Buddhism and Hinduism I don't think there is any way that karma can be manipulated or directed.
I used to believe in karma but don't think I do anymore.
It occurs to me though that a witch could in theory manipulate "anything" including karma or at least, people's belief in it.

[Humming Bird]

As understood by Eastern Traditions such as Buddhism and Hinduism I don't think there is any way that karma can be manipulated or directed.
I used to believe in karma but don't think I do anymore.
It occurs to me though that a witch could in theory manipulate "anything" including karma or at least, people's belief in it.

It is one of those things whereby if you have to ask the answer is no.
Karma is an expression of the Dharma (work, discipline) whereby if you are doing what you need to be doing on your path, your karma will resolve to meet those needs.
It is like following the Tao, if you have to manipulate your Karma, you wont be able to because you're already ensnared in that pattern.
Karma changes when you change, when your behavior changes... once in motion it must resolve...
Manipulate i think is the wrong word, it is self determined, yet it is a reaction... essentially that's all it is, the consequence ill or good of the Dharma or lack thereof.
And as the consequence is a self-manifested trial and obstacle I don't think you can manipulate it without manipulating yourself.

Yet, mastering this causation of self is attested, as it required in the escaping of Samsara, the wheel of reincarnation... of patterns and also life to life if you recognize reincarnation, which is said to be rooted therein.
However I don't think the word overcome is appropriate either, because really you don't break the wheel so much as embrace and become the wheel itself, and sometimes this is depicted as being in the center thereof, a nod to inner locus.

Speaking of Buddhism, the idea there is that to manipulate karma, one needs yo engage in right though, right speech, right action etc....
while various schools have their reservations on what these are, ultimately all that is known is that it will be the right think to do.
There aren't any absolute guidelines because everything is a) ever changing and b)the perceptional situation is always different...

The great thing there, is that what "right action" etc. is, is going to be different for each individual.
In this regard it isn't unlike the "True Will" we see in Thelema.

How can anyone really say then how to manipulate it toward a given result.
i wouldn't say you could manipulate karma like a fetch or servitor to go out and accomplish some goal...
Nor do i think it is that specific.
'good karma' i would say, is when things more smootly because you are in a state of inner balance, and things unfold accordingly.
It creates a pathos to follow, being more clearly defined because you aren't in conflict with yourself and thus not manifesting a turbulent and unstable pathway.

from my experience this does grant one greater influence and control in their magic(k)
so perhaps, karma isn't something to be manipulated so much as the mechanics of being able to manipulate,
when the self is in proper synchronization with all its aspects.
Because when you are on that track you really don't need to cast after the fact.
There's the recognition that everything you do is an act of correspondence, a magic(k)al act.
Thus everything you do becomes proactive, of doing without 'doing' and things tend to go your way.