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Beings above the Gods?

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  • #31
    The only thing above individual Gods in my belief is the all deity. The one who is God and Goddess, male and female, androgynous, but beyond these labels.The one that is the whole of all the Gods.


    • #32
      Originally posted by Gaudior View Post
      Didn't know where to put this, but...

      I was thinking today of something while at work (we were dead, so I could actually be chill and gather my thoughts lol). People...or at least the people I have come across seem to think that Gods are the highest beings in the known universe. But, I was thinking, what if there is a being that is even higher than that? What would it be? (Assuming you believe in God or Gods to begin with).

      Did any of that make sense? If not I'll elaborate but if so, let me know what you think! :boing:
      That depends on what you are calling the gods, but yes, all the ancient pantheons have a higher concept you just have to know what you are looking for.
      Looking at the Greek and Roman pantheons for example, the Olympians. While they embodied and ruled various aspects of nature, nature was still supreme.
      In ceremonial magic(k) there are what are known as the Olympic Spirits, which are the seven main Olympic deities associated with the seven classical planets-
      being named such as to not be cultural specific and a staple of ceremonial tradition (despite often being called with angels/intelligence's and blind forces from abrahamic sources)

      Now, referencing the Qabbalistic tree of life as it makes this easier we have:

      Chronus - Saturn - Da'ath (chronus is actually a Titan but nevermind that)
      Zues - Jupiter - Chesed
      Ares - Mars - Geburah
      Apollo - Sol - Tiphereth
      Aphrodite - Venus - Netzach
      Mercury - Mercury - Hod
      Selene - Lunae - Yesod

      Now all you need to know to understand this post is that these are all under what is known as the supernal triangle.
      Within the supernal triangle is where you place beings that are rather omniscient and omnipotent.
      We can call it the Q continuum, and it's number is three... three is the number of paradox.
      Now Chronus, is at Sa'ath which is/sits on what is known as the abyss....
      Cronus means time (and time is really space-time) and it makes way for a concourse of forces for the various characters/gods to arise.
      The titans were often depicted was the primeval wilderness of this.

      Now who could see beyond the barrier of time, and who controlled the stories of gods and men?
      The Fates! who number three. now they couldn't in some accounts kill a god but they could ruin their day.
      And then there are the Norns in the Norse pantheon, whom we've the Wyrd.
      The Wyrd is a big deal, it is the pathos of all things and personified it is what you're looking for here.
      And then there is Hekate, who while given as a Titan who was allowed to keep her domain.... is actually greater...
      She rules Heaven, Earth and the Underworld...let's face it she's pretty much the fates as one being.
      She's a big deal. and before the fates there was the Hekateris, the great dance of things.

      The supernal triangle, or Kether itself, is the "Primum Mobile", the Prime Mover....
      The Cherubim are the angelic choir in Chockmah which is in the triangle.
      The Watchers are of that choir (see book of Enoch) and when you engage Enochian magic(k) you find that you are dealing with entities outside our understanding of time and space.
      There's a notion of straddling worlds with entities on this level... they are associated with crossroads and inbetweens.
      Janus fits this, as does Hekatos and his lame-step.... also look at the reference to the lame-step in the Bible.

      in Egyptian thought, you have Ra-Horakhty, that "Ra of the Two Horizons"
      but also divinity itself is personified as Nehebkau who binds the Ba and the Ka together.
      Netjer is also another name/depiction of this, and even Khnum/Ptah who represents the Ogdoad, the underlying nature of Ra and of creation, is comparable.

      in Hinduism the omnipresent power is expressed as the trinity of:
      Brahma - the creating force
      Shiva - the destructive force
      Vishnu - the preserving force

      In Thelema it is Ra-Hoor-Khuit (Ra-Horakhty again) whom is expressed in dual as Hadit and Nuit.
      Wicca follows suit with the Dryghten, God and Goddess.
      Originally in the Hebrew you have Ehieh, Abba Elohim and Ama Elohim....
      and also in Alchemy, the Divine King, The Divine Queen and the Great work.
      All of these starting from Thelma are related.

      In the Cherokee Pantheon the supreme being is Unelanvhiagatiya "'The Thunderer" trans "Providence"
      From him come the four thunderers of the four directions... these being winged serpents.
      These each then are expressed in dual, four couples....
      the four women make a fifth and the four men make a fifth just like the four fake a fifth.
      Now these aren't gods at this point... these are essences, living archetypes which weave all stories and characters, both gods and men.
      And while we have eight here, we can see the number three is also inherent... it's just the inherent nature of number.
      The eight (four couples) mirror the eight of the Ogdoad of Egyptian thought...
      Out of come Kutani, Tsayi, Galoneda etc.
      and some of these characters are so close an essence that that are considered the thunderers as well.
      on the surface the stories seem everywhere and the pantheon simple... however there's more there that that requires learning the medicine to see.

      Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
      I'm panentheistic, in both the Hermetic and Pythagorean sense, so I do believe that there are beings that are above what we usually think of as "the gods". Those beings would also be gods or, in the case of The All, a sort of pantheistic "God", of course, so defining them as "above the gods" is useful only insofar as one is defining the gods as beings of the various polytheistic pantheons and such. Either way, I do believe in some entities that exist above the usual gods as all-encompassing forces.


      It might just be because that's how that path is set up. Using my path as an example: when it first formed in the late 1930's and 1940's, Wicca and Hermeticism shared essentially the same theology. It's just that Wicca focused on the "ground level" forces, the gods of nature and fertility and magic. Because, ultimately, that's what it intrinsically is--a fertility religion. The unknowable or all-encompassing Gnostic-style force of deity was of no real concern to the religion's practice and its goals.
      Not true, there's the Dryghten which always gets overlooked. Also, the Goddess tends to be rather exalted and more celestial.
      If we are talking non-Trad, yeah.... yeah... that's fair.
      Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
      (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths) - The Anikutani Tradition