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  • #61
    Originally posted by Djiril
    I heard a woman on "This American Life" saying that as a child she found the whole "mark of the beast" thing a comfort because even though she didn't think she was good enough otherwise, all she would have to do to get into heaven was refuse it and be killed.
    But would you really want to get into heaven on a technicality?
    Ben Trismegistus
    Super-Cool Retired Admin Type

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to me. Click here.


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    • #62
      Originally posted by Ben Trismegistus
      But would you really want to get into heaven on a technicality?
      Spending eternity feeling like a cheater is, IMHO, still better than spending eternity burning in hell.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by hedgecub
        Spending eternity feeling like a cheater is, IMHO, still better than spending eternity burning in hell.
        Perhaps, but it wouldn't make me think much about the integrity of the place.
        Ben Trismegistus
        Super-Cool Retired Admin Type

        R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to me. Click here.


        Check out my former rock band, Wayward Sun!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Demeter
          You know, I was thinking about this the other day, and I realized that I have a slightly different take on it. During my Christian days, I was "Messianic." We didn't expect to be Raptured. What we figured was that those who were good Christians but not strong enough to survive the Trib would be raptured. The rest would fight our way through it, purifying our faith in the process, and we would be the ones that would welcome Christ back as King and help him overcome the Forces of Evil(TM) and live in his city and run things afterwards. People who actually expected to be raptured, and wanted to be, were wussies and cowards ... So I still have an "Oh, right, you're going to make the mess, then run away and let everybody else clean it up" attitude toward the Rapturists. Our church even had a group for teenage boys called the "Princes of Israel" which was teaching them survival skills and how to do guerilla warfare against the Antichrist ... then they found out the pastor who was teaching all this stuff was lying about his ordination and also was molesting some of those same teenage boys while they were on their camping retreats ... the whole thing fell apart shortly after that for some reason.

          As a Pagan, I still think, deep in my heart somewhere, "Oh, good, they're gone. Now we can start cleaning the place up."

          I was lurking on a "rapture" board yesterday and was appalled by how many people were CHEERING all the bad things that are happening because they're all signs that we're in the End Times. "Look at how much apostasy there is! Look at the drug use! Look at the priests molesting children! Look at the failure of peace talks and the possibility of Israel attacking Syria and devastating Damascus! Isn't it GREAT! AMEN!"

          I was horrified that they would actually think that way.
          Pain, pure and simple. Your enviroment will dictate your belief's. These belief's require emotion.
          These belief's are based on cynisism, shallow emotion based on life experience!? Narrow minded, ignorant, blah, blah.
          The pain lies in the lack of skill's to appretiate what they have!?

          OOOOH, LUV IT. XXXXXXX

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          • #65
            Originally posted by NozzleMan
            If you believe in the Bible, then there is arguably a good reason to be scared if one misses the rapture.

            Thoughts?
            A: Believing in the Bible does not necessarily mean believing in the Rapture. Historically, it's a fairly new concept (dating back to the early 1830's, I believe) and it's not an accepted part of older theologies - just part of the radically fundamentalist movement, which is actually fairly new. Here is a link to a rather interesting essay on the subject. http://www.reformed.com/pub/rapture.htm

            B: Even among people who do believe in the Rapture, there is considerable discussion as to whether it's Pre, Mid, or Post Tribulation - the latter two interpretations mean that Christians would go through part or all of the Tribulation with everybody else - they just have the advantage of being warned in advance so they can prepare.

            C: If you believe in the Bible and a pre-trib Rapture and you really believe Christ has saved you, then theoretically you CAN'T miss the Rapture. And if the Rapture happens and you don't go, then there's a couple of possibilities: You might be one of the prophets or one of the sealed that are supposed to be left on the planet (which is where my Messianic friends came into it). Or you might not have really not been "saved" due to doubts or something, but now you should have incontrovertible proof, plus a pretty good idea of what you need to do, plus a timetable of what's going to be happening, and after all, forewarned is half an octopus. So you're still ahead of the game.

            Personally, I tend to the preterist view. To the extent that the apocalyptic prophecies in the New Testament are valid at all and not added after the fact, I think they relate to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple - surely the end of the world to Judean Jews of the first century.
            Blessed be!

            Demeter

            *************

            Demeter's First Rule: Thou Shalt Not Check Thy Brain At The Door.
            Demeter's Second Rule: Thou Shalt THINK! (kudos to Orson Scott Card)

            "Compassion is not an option. It is the Law of Laws." (Truth is found in unlikely places; this is a quote from some random guy I passed on the street.)

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            • #66
              My husband believes. We read all those Left Behind books together too. At times it gets a little preachy, but ya know, they do make for an interesting read.
              Anyhow, my husband finds it comforting, that some day, he'll just disappear and get to skip the end of the world. And, he truly believes that he will be raptured because he is born again, and that's all he believes that it takes. So, he's happy anyhow.
              "Warriorship is a profession of courage, a calling to valor - not just on the battlefield, but in all of life’s conflicts."
              "If there is any hope for the future, it surely must rest upon the ability to stare unflinchingly into the heart of darkness."
              "The gentleman desires to be halting in speech but quick in action."
              "Do right, fear no man."
              "Men whose acts are at variance with their words command no respect, and what they say has but little weight."
              "Lying is done with words and also with silence."
              "If you stand straight, do not fear a crooked shadow."
              "A man does not extricate himself from difficulty at the expense of his associates."
              "If the enemy leaves a door open, you must rush in."
              "I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me."
              "If he is willing to kill, then he must be prepared to die. It is only right."
              >>>Yah ta hey! Hoka hey!<<<

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