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Who created who?

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    Answer to Ben Tresmagistrus, "How deep"?


    It you accept the concepts put forward by the String Theorists, matter below the subatomic level does not exist. Everything is made up of Strings or coherent energy patterns vibrating at different frequencies.
    Physicists are now looking at these concepts as a possible means of resolving mathematically the apparant conflicts in the theory of relativity.
    At this level, it seems obvious that every thing is part of everything
    else so the argument of Creator vs.Created becomes moot. Where does one draw the line to distinguish between one and the other?
    .


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  • Ben Trismegistus
    replied
    Originally posted by Seamus MacNemi
    Were any of us or was any thing created? Or is our use of the word "CREATED " simply a convenient lever for lack of a better term or definition? Could it be possible that we exploded into being? Or that we just BECAME as part of an original beingness much as an omoeba simply divides to proliferate? If the latter is true, could it not be possible that we all contain some of the original substance of our first progenitor? Is it possible that that is the way in which we "KNOW" any thing about Diety?
    Well, it depends on how deep you want to get. If you believe the physicists, matter (and energy) cannot be created or destroyed -- it can only be shuffled around. So therefore, while whatever makes us "us" was created somehow, the atoms that make up our physical bodies have existed for all time (or at least since the Big Bang, since we have no way of knowing what happened before then). So yes, it's possible that we KNOW something on a cellular level that our conscious minds cannot assimilate. It's entirely possible that the whole of human spirituality, in all its diversity, is simply a set of different interpretations of the "truth" that is manifesting through the collective unconscious. And the differences themselves are caused by our imperfect brains, which are only able to grasp a small portion of the truth. Like the story of the 5 blind men trying to identify an elephant (the man at the tail thinks he's found a snake, for instance), the theologies of Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. may only be vast oversimplifications of a universal truth.

    How's that for deep?

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    Who created?

    Were any of us or was any thing created? Or is our use of the word "CREATED " simply a convenient lever for lack of a better term or definition? Could it be possible that we exploded into being? Or that we just BECAME as part of an original beingness much as an omoeba simply divides to proliferate? If the latter is true, could it not be possible that we all contain some of the original substance of our first progenitor? Is it possible that that is the way in which we "KNOW" any thing about Diety?

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  • Ben Trismegistus
    replied
    Originally posted by Seamus MacNemi
    The all pervasive beingness that some of us have the temerity to call God
    must assuredly exist. That we know from our own experience. But where does our experience exist but in our own minds? If it did not exist there, where would it exist? I cannot, for the life of me, concieve of a subjective experience outside of my own mind. That place, for me, is where the Gods dwell. I would concede that Diety is a totally subjective experience for all of us, bur it is an experience that most of us agree upon. Why else would we be having this conversation?
    Well, there's no way of knowing whether deity exists or not. We choose to believe that it does, based on our view of the universe. But that doesn't make it a foregone conclusion.

    If deity does exist, however, it surely exists in a manner far too complicated for our puny brains to understand (consciously). Therefore, as you say, deity is what our limited subjective experience tells us deity is. That doesn't make it wrong, but it does make all of our answers limited in a way.

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    Who , who created? who created what?

    I'm sorry but I'm having a bit of trouble with my PC

    :
    I can't think of an answer right now :

    Leave a comment:


  • true sadness
    replied
    maybe when people complete the cycle of reincarnation they join together and become gods.


    just a silly little thought.

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    The PLACE of the Gods, if there is one

    The all pervasive beingness that some of us have the temerity to call God
    must assuredly exist. That we know from our own experience. But where does our experience exist but in our own minds? If it did not exist there, where would it exist? I cannot, for the life of me, concieve of a subjective experience outside of my own mind. That place, for me, is where the Gods dwell. I would concede that Diety is a totally subjective experience for all of us, bur it is an experience that most of us agree upon. Why else would we be having this conversation?

    Leave a comment:


  • Toad
    replied
    Originally posted by Seamus MacNemi
    What came first, The Gods or the realm of their habitation? After all, the Gods must be or exist or dwell somewhere,is it not? If the Gods exist nowhere but in my mind, they still exist somewhere.
    Why must deity reside in a place? Coud he/she/it not simply exist without the limited constraint of location imposed by us?

    Originally posted by Seamus MacNemi
    There is a greater distance between my two ears than there is in all of the great expance of the cosmos, and all of it is an equally empty space.
    Wait a second...did you just call yourself an airhead? :D

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    Who created whom was created by who?

    What came first, The Gods or the realm of their habitation? After all, the Gods must be or exist or dwell somewhere,is it not? If the Gods exist nowhere but in my mind, they still exist somewhere. There is a greater distance between my two ears than there is in all of the great expance of the cosmos, and all of it is an equally empty space.

    Leave a comment:


  • ambermystique
    replied
    Agree? Maybe...

    I believe that we, as humans, did not create God/desses. The whole question of creationism revolves around this. However, based solely on opinion will you find your answers. There is no "proof" to show that God/desses exist. Nevertheless, there is no "proof" that God/desses don't exist. How could we create God/desses? Just a figment of our imaginations? Or solely because we need to create some kind of otherworldly protection? If one questions how "we" got here in the first place, how "we" came to be, then one can only produce what we refer to as God/desses. If the Big Bang Theory is what comes to mind, then how did the molecules and the universe itself begin? There are many loopholes in that theory. Overall, God/desses must exist - otherwise, most of the human population would feel very much lost, without purpose. When saying that though, God/desses look to be very much our own creations. So, do I agree or disagree? Who knows...

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    What's the matter? You afriad of a promotion? Or don'T you want the responsibilty?

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  • Xentor
    replied
    Hail Xentor?
    I don't think so.
    Hail mol.

    :hailmol:

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  • Seamus MacNemi
    replied
    All hail Xentor
    the great metaphysical mentor
    What was created
    must be first concieved
    without conception
    there could be no perception
    were then, the Gods all concieved
    Pray tell then
    by whom?

    Leave a comment:


  • Xentor
    replied
    I do not belive we were created, rather that we simply exist. You asume that we had to have been created. Certianly the human form is a creation, but that is only physical. Are not spiritual things unlike physical things? Do they not simply exist? And if so is it not posible that they have always simply existed?
    Interesting. Assuming we're created by god(s), assuming they exist out of the same elements as everything else in the physical part of the universe, god(s) are perishable just like everything else. As such, they will have been created just like everything else.

    However, assuming those who created the universe are something else than a combination of physical elements, there's no way we can scientifically describe their existence. As such, belief provides an answer. And we all know how much our beliefs differ.

    Assuming gods are spiritual beings that simply are, without any notion of perishability, there should be no way we created them. But it's possible we created their appearance, or at least shaped it to please our senses.



    Side note: I'm having a hard time finding the right words to describe non-physcal beings. If an entity isn't physical, you can't use words like "created", "made", "consists of", "configuration" and the likes. We can use those words to describe physical entities. It's like describing what thoughts consist of, without referring to the energy emitting neuron pattern.

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  • Ben Trismegistus
    replied
    Originally posted by Toad
    When I posted this I honestly had not formed an opinion. I have thought a lot about how you put this and I have come to the conclusion that I agree with you. Who would a thunk it? =)

    Thanks for the enlightenment!
    My pleasure! Always happy to help!

    Leave a comment:

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