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"Could (a)God create a rock so big, even they couldnt lift it?"...I think I solved it

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  • #16
    Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
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    • #17
      God is affected by gravity? You just made the assumption that he has mass. He might not!
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mindflayer
        Actually, you proved my point
        anything added to infinity, is still infinity, therefore infinity goes on forever (hence why it's called infinity, it NEVER ends)
        true, there is a difference between being all-powerful and infinite, I just left out the first part...because it was unimportant

        basically, Gods are infite, and ever-expanding (as explained above) they create the rock of infinite size (but not ever-expanding) for that split-moment the rock would be further along than the god, but the God would move past, and be powerful enough to lift it
        Nope, you missed my point completely. Not even in the ballpark. My point was that infinity is a constant. It is NOT ever expanding, because it CAN'T expand. You can't get any bigger than infinity. If you try to get any bigger, well you really cannot, because you're already the biggest that can exist. So sure, God can make the rock (which is asumed to be also of infinite mass), but he can't just go and say "OK now I'm Infinity Plus 1 and I can lift you!" like you are saying. There is no such thing as Infinity Plus 1.
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        • #19
          in·fin·i·ty (n-fn-t)
          n. pl. in·fin·i·ties
          1. The quality or condition of being infinite.
          2. Unbounded space, time, or quantity.
          3. An indefinitely large number or amount.

          note the word "indeffinitely"

          in·def·i·nite (n-df-nt)
          adj.
          Not definite, especially:
          1. Unclear; vague.
          2. Lacking precise limits
          3. Uncertain; undecided
          Ok, so if Infinity is an indeffinately large number, it therefore has no limit, and cannot be a fixed number...

          now, how about you stop getting worked up and over-reactting over what was SUPPOSE to be a friendly debate?

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          • #20
            Zeus only *thinks* he's more powerful than Athena.
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            • #21
              Mindflayer, that was Illuminatus being friendly. You should see him when he's really worked up...

              Anyway, Illuminatus, I totally agree with god being able to overcome a simple natural force like gravity - after all, they're omnipotent.

              But, ehm, what's their reason for lifting the rock? We're debating whether they're powerfull enough to lift it, even powerfull enough to create something they can't lift.

              We never wondered about the need to lift that rock. Why not simply create it and leave? They never need to bother about the rock again...
              Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
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              • #22
                because the God feels like seeing if he actually CAN create a rock big enough, and then lift it?


                lol, motive doesn't really matter, they're trying to lift it... what's it matter why




                oh, and Illumin, isn't being friendly, you didn't see the nasty little note by the bad karma he gave me

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                • #23
                  Your question boils down to this, Can a creator, capable of anything, limit itself?

                  The answer is of course. The creator can.

                  And the creator has.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mindflayer
                    lol, motive doesn't really matter, they're trying to lift it... what's it matter why
                    Of course it does. Let me show by this anecdote of the Rabbi trying to explain his faith to his students:

                    "Two burglars, dressed exactly the same, enter a house through its coal cellar. The first burglar stays completely clean, while the other gets dirty will coal dust."
                    The Rabbi asks his students, "Do you know which of the burglars will wash up?"
                    One student says, "The dirty one of course."
                    Another corrects them, "No, the clean one. When they look at each other, the dirty one sees the clean one and thinks they're clean too. But the clean one sees the dirty one and thinks they're dirty as well. As such, the clean one will wash up."
                    "Very good," acknowledges the Rabbi, "now riddle me this: HOW can two burglars enter the same house through the same coal cellar, with ONE of the staying clean and the OTHER getting dirty?"
                    The students couldn't answer.
                    Says the Rabbi, "That's where faith comes in."

                    I don't know if whoever posed the rock paradox at first had this in mind, or simply wanted to answer the question. Motive does matter, for without motive, the paradox question needn't be asked.
                    Last edited by Xentor; November 13th, 2003, 02:17 AM. Reason: Typo: wrote "coal" as "cole". Hah! Too much Charmed.
                    Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
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                    • #25
                      The question asked here is about whether a god could, given sufficient motivation, create a rock he couldn't lift. The problem of what could give a god sufficient motivation is not being asked here, the problem is a theoretical "well could he?"Infinity is not a constant. Infinity is not precisely a noun, as such. It's used as a noun, but infinity is a description of the way something behaves as it increases without bound or limit. Always increasing. If you add one to infinity (i'll use it as a noun for convenience here), it increases. It keeps increasing, whether you consciously decide to add one to it or not. Infinity is not a set number. If you give me a numerical value for infinity, I can always find something higher. As such, infinity is not a limit that a function cannot pass, rather, it is the absense of limits that allow the function to go on forever.
                      "Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars." - Henry Van Dyke


                      42

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