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Would you take eternal torment for someone else?

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  • ~ Monk ~
    replied
    Originally posted by Felidae
    Well, to stray even farther:

    What if the person was beyond redemption and your sacrifice was wasted?
    Oops - totally missed your last post!

    I guess in this case it all depends on why you make the sacrifice. I would view it like this: on occasion, I give money to people on the street. I hope that they use the money to get food. It's possible they won't; perhaps they'll go and buy booze or drugs. But even if they do, does it take away from my action?

    Of course, YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • Felidae
    replied
    Originally posted by Shpongle
    That does make it more difficult :D - but for me the answer would be the same.

    Another thing to consider even in those situations where the person whose you place you'd be taking did something terrible - murder, etc. What if, in seeing your sacrifice and compassion, that person became more enlightened? Realized how wrong they were for doing what they did and spent the rest of their life doing something better?

    Of course, that's straying from the original question, but...
    Well, to stray even farther:

    What if the person was beyond redemption and your sacrifice was wasted?

    Leave a comment:


  • ~ Monk ~
    replied
    Originally posted by Felidae
    I realize that this throws a slightly Fundamentalist light on the whole issue, and though I am no Fundamentalist I can't say that I could give you a pat "Yes" or "No" at this point...
    That does make it more difficult :D - but for me the answer would be the same.

    Another thing to consider even in those situations where the person whose you place you'd be taking did something terrible - murder, etc. What if, in seeing your sacrifice and compassion, that person became more enlightened? Realized how wrong they were for doing what they did and spent the rest of their life doing something better?

    Of course, that's straying from the original question, but...

    Leave a comment:


  • Felidae
    replied
    Oh hey - just thought of a twist to my answer:

    What if my daughter and I knew beforehand that if she made the decision against serving this god that this would be her fate? To twist it further, would she have not made such a decision based somewhat on her experiences in her formative years, wherein I would the one be responsible for her values and belief system, albeit indirectly. After all, her choice could either be based on my personal beliefs or a result of rebellion against me.

    Would I take her place then?

    I realize that this throws a slightly Fundamentalist light on the whole issue, and though I am no Fundamentalist I can't say that I could give you a pat "Yes" or "No" at this point...

    Leave a comment:


  • Felidae
    replied
    Originally posted by Shpongle
    Ah, but the original question merely asked if we would do it, not what the person whose place we'd be taking did to deserve it in the first place.

    Just for fun, let's say your daughter was condemned to eternal torment simply for not accepting a certain god. No murder, no theft, she simply didn't serve this god. Would that change your mind?
    Oh man, now that's good!

    Throws a different light on the entire issue... How funny that I realize the conditioning behind my response after looking at it from this perspective.

    And yes, that would change my mind. I'm self-involved, not heartless.

    Leave a comment:


  • ~ Monk ~
    replied
    Originally posted by Felidae
    Not to put anybody's back up, but I wouldn't do jail time for anybody. I wouldn't repay money someone else stole. I wouldn't die in place of a murderer. Even if it was my own daughter.
    Ah, but the original question merely asked if we would do it, not what the person whose place we'd be taking did to deserve it in the first place.

    Just for fun, let's say your daughter was condemned to eternal torment simply for not accepting a certain god. No murder, no theft, she simply didn't serve this god. Would that change your mind?

    Leave a comment:


  • WitchJezebel
    replied
    Originally posted by Felidae
    Not to put anybody's back up, but I wouldn't do jail time for anybody. I wouldn't repay money someone else stole. I wouldn't die in place of a murderer. Even if it was my own daughter.

    We are responsible for our actions.

    Anyway, if someone does not pay their own bill; if they dance but do not pay the fiddler; what will they learn and how will they grow?

    That's just the way I look at it.
    My sentiments exactly.

    Leave a comment:


  • piperwyatt
    replied
    I agree with you on taking eternal torment for someone I didn't know. I have a HUGE heart, even if others think elsewise. I actually took a blow for someone younger than I am, and I didn't even know them!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Felidae
    replied
    Not to put anybody's back up, but I wouldn't do jail time for anybody. I wouldn't repay money someone else stole. I wouldn't die in place of a murderer. Even if it was my own daughter.

    We are responsible for our actions.

    Anyway, if someone does not pay their own bill; if they dance but do not pay the fiddler; what will they learn and how will they grow?

    That's just the way I look at it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ajna
    replied
    Am I the only person who said they would take it for someone they didn't know?
    I don't claim to believe in any form of eternal torment, but as long as I felt it was good and I should do it, I would.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    If it were a decision I had to make, I wouldn't do it for anybody.

    Leave a comment:


  • Felidae
    replied
    While I don't believe in this sort of system, if it did exist you should buy what you paid for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muireannach
    replied
    Well I don't beleive in eternal torment either but it does work as a sort of cycle of jsutice and if you were to take the fall for someone else who knowingly is "evil" then it throws the blaance out of whack. How would the christian heaven be if murderers were in heaven and their family members took the fall in hell? then the whole system would be a barter system therefore making it allllll out of whack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bainidhe Dub
    replied
    Nope.

    Leave a comment:


  • mato
    replied
    I totally dont believe in eternal torment. The idea that a 'god' of any sort would do that to it's creation is just horrible! (this comming from the guy with 9 levels of hell... huh...) If such a system existed I dont think I would allow myself to be placed in heck for any level of time for any one! It's not that I dont care, it's just That I Dont Care! Yeesh, if one believes he/she is going to burn let em! But leave me out of it! I also agree that if such a system existed it would be our (as creation) only option but to crush the entity that started it and destroy the followers... I think that might be why I am classified as evil to 9 out of 10 religions.

    Leave a comment:

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