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  • Is Satanism Pagan?

    I've heard, in years previous, that some practitioners are nervous about including Satanism beneath the umbrella that covers all Pagan faiths, such as Wicca. Perhaps it is because they are nervous that the Christian community will assume that all Pagans are Satanists.

    What do you think: is Satanism Pagan?
    45
    Yes, Satanism is a Pagan faith.
    26.67%
    12
    No, Satanism is NOT a Pagan faith.
    46.67%
    21
    Yes, but I'm worried that others will think that ALL Pagans are Satanists.
    6.67%
    3
    I don't care.
    4.44%
    2
    I have no idea.
    15.56%
    7

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    Ok, let's try this again...


    If I had to give an answer right now, I'd say no. But I don't know that much about Satanism so you might want to ask someone more knowledgeable.

    At the same time, this is one of those unanswerable questions. It's a question that tries to categorize a religion. And that religion, being like all others, would be very hard to categorize. Just like Christians, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. there are many 'flavors'. It sort of cheapens the journey to try to categorize it. But, that's just my opinion...

    Anyone else?


    ~Dria El~
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    • #3
      Good question

      My frist though would be no because in is linked to be Christian but, then again. If a Satanist could also worship a God or Goddess that is evil, so I guess it could go either way. I knew one back in college. She seemed like an ok girl.
      I am ready to meet my maker, but whether my maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter. - Winston Churchill

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      • #4
        Well, I don't know VERY much about Satanism, but from my understanding this is how it works....

        The Satanists I've known don't worship Satan - they don't even believe in the existence of the Judeo-Christian entities such as God, angels, etc. Rather, they use Satan as an example of the ultimate individual. Satanism (ooh, here comes the controversy) isn't so much a religion as a philosophy, as far as I can tell. It puts the individual at the center and says that people need to rebel against authority before they can understand themselves. Like I said, though, that's just my understanding.

        Before we can say whether or not Satanism is 'pagan' we have to decide what 'pagan' means. ^_^

        Sylph

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        • #5
          I also have no clue, which is strange because you would think that with as much as I hear about Satan and his dasterlly(ha,ha if that is a word, I surely didn't spell it right) deeds, I would have done some research.

          Excellent question Daniel- can't wait to see the input.

          greenthumb

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          • #6
            I voted yes, but at the same time I think there are good arguments to both sides.

            1) If by pagan you mean the literal translation "country-dweller" then the answer is most definitely NO...but....

            2) If by pagan you mean a faith that is not Christian, then I guess Satanism is a pagan faith, or as Sylphanie said, a philosophy. I agree with what she was saying about it, as I have read a little bit about Satanism and have found that they do not in fact, worship Satan but use him as an example in the way they live their lives. If they worship anyone, it is themselves. They see themselves as their own God.

            BB

            Rae )0(
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            • #7
              My understanding is much the same as Sylphanie's, that it's not so much a religion as it is a philosophy.

              I would recommend checking out the Church of Satan's website, they have a lot of interesting information there.

              Lilu
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              • #8
                Actually, the Church of Satan are rather emphatic that Satanism IS a religion, as it has both ritual and dogma. On the subject of Satan as a symbol, that is true but it is not the whole story. Most LaVeyan Satanists also subscribe to the idea that Satan is the "dark force" that permeates and motivates nature (and man). As such, it is a quasi divine creator concept, not unlike aspects of other pagan beliefs. It is not a "god" however as it is considered to be an inanimate force. On the subject of whether Satanism is pagan or not. IMO it is, anyone who has looked at modern Satanic ritual practices will realise it comes from the same sources as Wicca and other paths of the Western Mystery Tradition, i.e. Hermetics, Masonry etc. Those who cannot accept Satanism as pagan generally cannot see past the name "Satan" and judge on that basis that it is inextricably linked to Xtianity. It is, in fact in some ways less related to Xtianity than say Wicca, which embraces Xtian ethics (i.e. the rede), Satanic ethics are entirely separate from and different to those of Xtianity. However, you won't find too many Satanists getting hot and bothered over whether or not they are accepted by the neo-pagan community, except possibly myself, and then only because I enjoy a good argument!

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                • #9
                  Thanks for the info Cailleach, I have to say that just being called "Church of Satan" kind of gives the impression of being a religion doesn't it? My impressions came from a different site, which belonged to a Satanist I used to correspond with years ago, but I've since lost the link and his email address since we stopped writing, so I can't recommend it.

                  I think like most spiritual ideals, whether it becomes a religion or a philosophy to you, depends entirely on you.

                  I enjoyed the info and thoughts on the ritual practices etc. I have to agree with you on the paganism theme. My personal *understanding* of what paganism is and isn't would place Satanism in with paganism, but like someone else said, we would all have to come to a general consensus on the actual definition of Paganism before we could judge whether Satanism is in with it or not.

                  BB
                  Lilu
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                  • #10
                    Well...

                    ...all Xians I know ALREADY think all Pagans are satanists. That aspect is a moot point here in the Buckle of the Bible & Tornado Belt.

                    Is satanism a Pagan religion? Personally, I don't think so. I can't help but feel it's just another offshoot of Judaism, from whence the other two of the "big 3" sprang. And as usual, my 2 pennies are in the mail.
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                    • #11
                      Well, here's my take on it...
                      Satanism and Wicca have a whole lot in common, as do Wicca and Hermetic magick... There is a good reason for this...

                      When Gerald Gardner was getting together his coven, he was friends with Aliester Crowley... I think that he took a lot of the ways that Crowley had, and changed the so that there was a difference... The person who really filled out the gaps in Wicca was Doreen Valiente, by really giving the women in the craft power...

                      Anton Levay, if you look at many of the laws in Satanism, took a lot from Gardenarian Wicca as a basis for his religion. He like Gardner before him changed a bit of it to fit his personal way of thinking, and modern Satanism was born... (hatched?)

                      Personally, I think that yes, Satanism is pagan... Do I agree with it? No. Many of the Satanists I have known over the years are painfully ignorant, and do very little research... (I'm not saying all of them, but most of the ones that I've known are like this...) I saw a special on Dateline I think it was, a few months back about Satanism, and dear Goddess, they made the entire Satanic community look like complete morons... The had the person who took over for Anton LeVay after his death, and the man just came off looking like a brainwashed idiot... I was shaking my head the whole time... It's just really sad how little research most people do before they decide that they are this religion or that religion...

                      I think that if more people took the time to really try to understand their own spiritual yearnings, that we would have a much more peaceful, and learned world...

                      Just my thoughts on it...

                      Kaylara
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                      • #12
                        I voted that I don't really care. It's not that i don't respect theirs or anyone elses' beliefs but what does it matter? I'm kinda sick of people needing to categorize, pigeonhole and identify. Especially with something so nebulous as a belief system.
                        And yes, I know this is so it's not equated with other, more benign belief systems, and it's futile. That kind of thing will continue until Paganism is widely accepted and even afterwards, because of how it is viewed and who the viewers are.
                        Everybody's got wings...it's just a question of where you stashed them.
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                        • #13
                          Armitage: yes good point, at the end of the day, pagan or not, so what?

                          Kaylara,
                          Be very careful of generalisations. You now know of at least one other Satanist who is not an idiot, (BSc, MSc, PhD...nearly). True enough, many teenage so called "Satanists" are idiots (I suspect these are the people you have encountered "over the years"), they are attracted to it because of its "hard" image, and have no idea of what the religion is to adult practitioners.

                          If there is similarity between Wiccan practices and Satanism it is due to the fact that VERY little of Gardners work was original. Aleister Crowley was certainly an influence on both men, that doesnt mean that LaVey "ripped off" Wicca (Satan forbid ). And I don't know what "laws" you mean, the nine Satanic Statements? The rules of the earth? Believe me, they are a far cry from anything in Wicca.

                          I have no idea what this Dateline program was, bear in mind though, that the producers doubtless had a agenda to make them look as stupid as possible and I'm sure they went out of their way to find the biggest bunch of kooks they could find. In addition, there is no way the man interviewed was the successor to LaVey, because his successor is a *woman*.

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                          • #14
                            So possibly, if Satanists stepped forward, and explained the true aspects of the faith(?), do you think that alot of the "stigma" one automatically associates with Satanism could be curtailed? Because I beleive that it is that which makes sects of people want to differentiate themselves and their doctrines from even looking satanistic.

                            greenthumb

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cailleach Dubh
                              Be very careful of generalisations. You now know of at least one other Satanist who is not an idiot, (BSc, MSc, PhD...nearly).
                              Personally. I know a lot of well-educated, multi-lettered idiots. None of them, however, have Celtic (Gaelic? Welsh? Sorry, I keep gettin' 'em mixed up) names.

                              In addition, there is no way the man interviewed was the successor to LaVey, because his successor is a *woman*.
                              What happened to Michael... Uh, What's-his-name? Aquino? You know, Edred Thorsson's buddy...
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                              Moderating Admin & Resident Old Guy


                              Battling socialism, crackpotism, communism, extremism, Angels of Punishment & alien invasions since 1968

                              Have a & a

                              I'll stop eating bacon when they come out with the patch.

                              Yellow Dog Moderate

                              Rick: I need one of those.
                              Elise: You need a tractor with a backhoe & a front loader? What on earth for?
                              Rick: To dig holes in the backyard. It's OK, I'd fill 'em back in...

                              "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey

                              Blut und Boden

                              "I often wish that I HAD done drugs in the sixties. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks..."
                              Rick the Runesinger

                              THE LAW OF THE PACK
                              Defend the Pack. Respect the elders.
                              Teach the young. Cooperate: know your role.
                              Hunt when you must, play when you can, rest in between.
                              Devour your enemies. Leave your mark. Voice your feelings.

                              sigpic

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