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  • Re: woe

    Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86
    That was weird. Mol I just saw that exact same post but by someone named Dravin in the wxact same thread. How could you, and then it appear. Strange..
    It was me. I am on my brother's computer and the thing was logged in as him. 3 people in a house...all members of the same community. I am glad we all have different machines...

    mol

    sitegod/system_Administrator/founder/member/engineer/enigma

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    • ah crapp

      I thought I had a psychic vision:D YEs leave it to the polititions for labels. Let us just move on with our paths. No need to be labled something.


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      • After listing the URLs of relevant sites, quoting relevant extracts from those sites, I'm accused of not doing my research. Hmmm.

        Ask a decent psychologist about Satan worship. They will tell you that it is almost impossible to worship Satan as the concept is generally understood. If you think about it you will see why. Satan worship is an immature act of rebellion and peer pressure amongst small groups of with strict Christian parents in every single case that I have had the misfortune to encounter. These people call themselves Satanists and cause trouble for my friends and I by giving us a bad reputation with the public, the police, and the local government. I only know one Satanist on a personal level who does not want these individuals dead, and that's because he has mastered a true (if somewhat ott) dionysian attitude "We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives,
        and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly
        interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose." ( http://www.churchofsatan.org/ )

        As for the Temple of Set literally worshipping Satan. Good for them. Don't have a go at me about it. It's not my fault. ( http://www.xeper.org/ )

        Now, there has been mention that the Lord Egan phenomena is a load of **** (I refrained). Fine, if thats your opinion, but there is growing support for the less elitist and more gnostic approaches to satanic philosophy, and the FCoS is the main organisation behind this move. The CoS is becoming too tight and narrow in its philosophy, and it is failing to appeal to a wider audience except by reputation (hey, its still 'cool' to CoS, right!). There is a gradual and continual move away from this mainstream satanic philosophy and towards the gnostic approaches, especially as more people add the Nag Hamaddi Library to their Biblical and Anti-biblical studies. ( http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhl.html )



        Last edited by Draedon; July 11th, 2001, 09:29 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Cailleach Dubh
          I just *lurve* all this: Satanists think...Satanists do....Satanists don't; blahblah.... With so many self-appointed Satanic experts in this thread, I hardly think my opinion (as a COSser, incidentally) is necessary.

          Draedon: what was that last post all about? Are you trying to suggest most Satanists subscribe to mind/body dualism, because hello, they don't! That is one of the key tenets of Satanism! And don't quote rubbish from that twit Egan in the FCOS at me either. Otherwise I'd agree with what you said on the dangers of dualist mentality. However, I don't believe you DO know anything about the TOS, if you did, you would know that the TOS believe in a literal Satan, who they "respect" (they claim it is not worship) in His incarnation as Set.
          Interesting, for a Satanist you fall short on the nines:

          You ask if I'm "trying to suggest most Satanists subscribe to mind/body dualism", but I introduced the quote saying that "mainstream Satanism, from which these guys have severed" have different views. I clearly, therefore, did not try to suggest that anyone outside of the FCoS, and not even all of those inclusive, subscribed to this theory.

          Also, this was not the point of relevance. The post was about relations between Satanism and Paganism, and whether or not the Neo-Pagan community would be wise to associate with Satanism. My point is that Satanism often expresses negative intentions towards pagans and their faith. My point is not that 'most Satanists subscribe to mind/body dualism', which we both know, and have done, I assume, for sometime, is a false statement. I won't even ask where you got it from.

          Then, "I don't believe you DO know anything about the TOS". Well, I never even mentioned, let alone claimed to know anything about the Temple of Set, but I do actually know a fair bit. The point is, I disagreed with the most basic premise of their faith and saw no need to research the path any further. It would be just as pointless to me as researching the Muslim faith. I'm more interested in other paths. Like I said, I never even mentioned the TOS, so where you got that from, I can only imagine.

          Where are you getting these ideas from? I find it hard to believe that you are a Satanist.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
            I am not NOT acting as a moderator here I just want to point out that a blanket statement is very highly frowned upon here.
            Christians belief in the cricifixion and resurection of Jesus Christ. Oh no! I just made a blanket statement! Hang on? It's true! Hang on, again! Isn't "a blanket statement is very highly frowned upon here" a blanket statement? You are saying that everyone in here (without having consulted them on this) has a negative reaction (apparently hardwired) to this specific mode of communication. This is, yes, a blanket statement that you are making, and yet it did not incurr the anticipated wrath. Automatically disproving itself. In short, what you said was right until it was said, then it became wrong. This is what happens when logic overcedes common sense. Common sense would rather say that you were wrong to begin with.

            I have known Satanists of both types. There are billions of people worldwide who honestly believe in the christian devil and amid those are people who chose to worship it as their diety. For them it IS a valid path if we like it or aprove has nothing to do with it's validity.
            Satanists of the CoS and FCoS are following a valid path. I'm not going to comment on the TOS as they are a fence element in this. As for the devil-worshippers, well, no one is denying their right to be a valid path, its just that they are a Christian rebellion rather than a seperate religion. They are kids whose authoritarian Christian parents successfully forced Christianity on them. They believe, but they still want to rebel against it, so when they hear about 'Satanism', they think 'Ahh!', and slit their neighbours' cats' throats. (This is called dry humour - I shouldn't have to point that out to intelligent people such as yourselves, but I know that at least one person would otherwise indignently 'inform' me that not all satanists slit cats' throats, and I shouldn't make blanket statements.)

            The arguement that it doesn't exsist because another group says so has been used to deny the existance of many religions in the past including Wicca, Paganism in general and I for one truely do not want to see that here. When we use such a blanket type arguement it is far too simple to fall into the trap of applying it to other things.
            Not a problem. If we say that any 'religion' which is actually a rebellion-reponse to another religion is not a religion, then guess what, only these so-called satanists will be included in that! No pagans or neo-pagans of any path can be considered a counter-movement against any other faith, seeing as they are all independant faiths based on their own unique philosophies. I'm not stupid enough to make blanket statements, or any statement of any kind, that could be used logically against me. I take no responsibility for the people who twist what I say and try to use it against me. These people who are not capable of rational and logical argument are everywhere, and they compose about 90% of our global society - I can't make them my personal responsibility, however much I'd like the pleasure of dealing with them personally.
            Last edited by Draedon; July 11th, 2001, 10:12 AM.

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            • *Moderator Mode*

              This thread is becoming redundant. I will be closing it on Friday July, 13th.

              *End Moderator Mode*

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              Kaylara
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              • I should apologise at this point to anyone who is finding my arguments aggressive. I am adopting a defensive position now. My logic is never criticised by those who interpret it logically, and I do not suffer fools lightly. This should be all I have to say, but for those who read to quickly and think to slowly (ie, those who do not sufficiently study the meaning of what they a reading) I shall add that I am slightly annoyed by the irrational reactions to many of my posts as yet. Logic is being allowed to suffer in this debate at the hands of emotional and irrational thinking ('woolly', for those who still need clarification). If anyone still requires firther clarification, then I am afraid I cannot help you. No one can.

                Comment


                • Sweetie,
                  Just because we pick apart what you are saying doesn't mean that we are thinking irrationally. Because you are not used to being questioned doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. You are becoming defensive because this thread has gotten quite volitile, which is another reason why I am closing it.

                  But please, do not say that we are stupid or using fuzzy logic just because we don't agree with you. Not only is that extremely arrogant, it personally doesn't make me want to listen to what you are saying. Because by saying that I am not thinking correctly, and all of the other things that you said, you are in essence showing me that you don't respect my views at all.

                  I think that you are a very well spoken and intellegent person, and I am glad to have finally found someone my age who is articulate, and knowledgeable. But I really, really, really hate being treated like I am inferior just because I hold different views than you.

                  I think that your responses were well thought out, well researched, but I don't agree with them. This is my white flag. I don't want to discuss this subject anymore, so If you will agree to disagree, we can close this thread on an upbeat.

                  Blessings
                  Kaylara
                  Site Adminstrator, (Yes, really!)
                  Official Site Vixen, 100% Grade A Evil,
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                  subscribe to mw

                  Disciple #42 of Jodarius, the Random God of Thwaking.

                  "Even people who think they are dragons think you are crazy. How does that make you feel?"

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                  • Mol is the untimite authority on this board and he has repeatedly said that we are not to be using blanket statements that put down others paths, religions, ect.... I am not refering to any members other than the rules that have been stated repeatedly by Mol when I say that they are frowned upon. I di not say that the people of this site.....
                    Yes people are talking about you behind your back. That is where all the laughter is coming from.
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                    • Originally posted by Draedon


                      Interesting, for a Satanist you fall short on the nines:
                      Actually, honey, my grasp of Satanism extends far beyond the the nines or indeed the eleven.

                      You ask if I'm "trying to suggest most Satanists subscribe to mind/body dualism", but I introduced the quote saying that "mainstream Satanism, from which these guys have severed" have different views. I clearly, therefore, did not try to suggest that anyone outside of the FCoS, and not even all of those inclusive, subscribed to this theory.
                      Fine, but your your wording was vague. I don't know why we are discussing the FCoS at all, or mind/spirit dualism for that matter.

                      Also, this was not the point of relevance.
                      True.

                      My point is not that 'most Satanists subscribe to mind/body dualism', which we both know, and have done, I assume, for sometime, is a false statement. I won't even ask where you got it from.
                      As I said, your post was vague: "Both Wiccans and Satanists (you didn't say "these" Satanists or FCoS Satanists) have been fooled into believing that a war exists between the flesh and the spirit". Yes you prefaced the post by saying you were talking about the FCoS, but that was not so clear later in your post. So that's where I got it from, not that difficult to figure out now is it? You need to take responsibility for your own woolly wording, honey, and not get all defensive and hostile when someone takes you up wrong on the basis of what you write.

                      Then, "I don't believe you DO know anything about the TOS". Well, I never even mentioned, let alone claimed to know anything about the Temple of Set, but I do actually know a fair bit. The point is, I disagreed with the most basic premise of their faith and saw no need to research the path any further. It would be just as pointless to me as researching the Muslim faith. I'm more interested in other paths. Like I said, I never even mentioned the TOS, so where you got that from, I can only imagine.
                      Oh excuse me, I did confuse a post by Danustouch for one of yours. However, the fact remains that some adult Satanists worship Satan as an entity, albeit not a Xian conception. I make a distinction between these and the teenage dabblers/ vandals, who, true enough, I would like to see rounded up and gassed.

                      Where are you getting these ideas from? I find it hard to believe that you are a Satanist.
                      *chortle* .......you're a funny kid really. If only you had something of substance to fill that puffed up shell of an ego....

                      Oh, and btw, no one pays an annual subscription to the COS unless someone is having them on. But then, you wouldn't know that would you?

                      Kaylara: I think closing this thread is a good idea, I don't think anything constructive can come of this discussion any longer.

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                      • While I am sorry it has come to this.

                        I am closing this thread.

                        Blatant disregard of posts I have made to keep this thread on track have been ignored.


                        mol

                        sitegod/system_Administrator/founder/member/engineer/enigma

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                        • This is being posted only as a reference. It will remain closed because of the volitile nature of the contents.

                          Kaylara
                          Site Adminstrator, (Yes, really!)
                          Official Site Vixen, 100% Grade A Evil,
                          Cerebral Goddess and Jelly Donut!
                          subscribe to mw

                          Disciple #42 of Jodarius, the Random God of Thwaking.

                          "Even people who think they are dragons think you are crazy. How does that make you feel?"

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