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  • Jesus

    Jesus...sparks up quite a controverisal issue with that biblical character...now i wont get into the whole "passion" thing, thats for another thread, i just wanted to see everyones views on jesus and how you think of him. for me, i believe in jesus, i think he was probobly the strongest, bravest, greatest man to walk to earth. i also believe he died for our sins, and that he forgives when you do wrong. pretty much the whole christian jesus package im with. what about yall??
    Last edited by DonovanJoseph; March 3rd, 2004, 10:22 PM.

  • #2
    ADMIN MODE

    Proselytizing is not allowed on Mysticwicks. Consider this a warning.

    I'm moving this thread to Theology and Philosophy.

    Faith is easy -- until the moment you actually need it.

    "Since when are facts subjective?" - Athena_Nadine

    "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all convictions, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity."

    – W.B. Yeats, "The Second Coming"

    Comment


    • #3
      see 1 Cor 13:11

      Hi-

      I’ve thought a lot about Jesus and have refined my view of him over the past 25 years. I was raised Christian in a Christian household, and so I was raised seeing Jesus as my personal Savior, the Messiah who died for my sins and washed away the sins of the world. My high school girlfriend reinforced this, and we both looked forward to our future in heaven. I’ve written about my spiritual history, and the story starts at this page:

      http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...SE/tjchap1.htm

      As I got older, I started to think more about the details of salvation, God, Jesus, and Christianity. I started to encounter a few minor problems, like if salvation comes only to those who accept Jesus, then what about those who die as babies? Simple – solve that by assuming God is just, and give salvation to babies. But babies that grow up may fall away from Jesus and be damned to Hell, so does that morally obligate us to kill babies to save them from Hell? And the huge problem of theodicy came up again and again. I started to wonder about my Christianity, and eventually to move away from it. I spent a lot of time studying the Bible to see what it said exactly, and read it cover to cover (and I’ve read the New Testament many times).

      I was surprised at how many direct contradictions, different religions, and bad acts by God I found (such as Ps 137, which says “blessed is he who dashes the little infants against the rocks”. I’ve explored these more in chapter 5 (use links at bottom of page linked to above).

      Then, I looked into the history of the church and the Bible and found out that the Bible wasn’t even put together until the 4th century, and that many of the books appear to be forgeries, not to mention the evidence we have that the text was changed between when the books were written in the first and second centuries and the time when the bible was put together in the 4th century.

      We have thousands of ancient manuscripts of bits and pieces of the Bible, and no two of the thousands we have agree word for word (except the tiniest scraps) due to copying errors and repeated changes. Almost all are from more than 200 years after Jesus, and we have no complete Bibles from before the 4th century.

      I looked into the historical Jesus, and found the 3 criteria that can be used to reconstruct what Jesus was actually like (I can discuss them if you’d like). It appears from this that Jesus was a fully Jewish itinerant preacher, who expected the end of the world within a few years, and who taught a message of repentance and apocalyptacism. He was a good person who was killed (like hundreds of others who died just like he did) for shooting off his mouth under an occupying army. That’s how I see Jesus today, based on the evidence we have.

      I’m glad that you have found a spiritually that is fulfilling to you. As you can see from my chapter 8, I don’t think it is necessary for a person’s spirituality to be based on fact for it to be fulfilling. Thanks for asking, and have a fun day!

      -Equinox

      P.S. Let me know if any of that (or anything in my spiritual history) doesn’t make sense. If you would like to discuss any of the stuff in this long post, you may want to just pick one topic and we can stick to that, otherwise we’ll wander around and nothing will get discussed fully.
      -Equinox

      I like my spirituality because I think it's true. But I love my spirituality because it makes me excited to be part of the universe.
      - Ben Trimegistus, 2004.2.23 (That's how I feel too!)

      What do I believe? Find out on my webpage (here):

      In short, I'm a Naturalistic Pagan (OK, now that link is fixed) who has found a spiritual home at a Unitarian Universalist Church.

      Useful Data for Pagans:
      Equinox/Solstice Times (click here) rise/set and phase data (click here)

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe Jesus was a guru preaching a spiritual message to the letter-obsessed Pharisees. He was a bit ahead of his time. That’s what got him crucified in the end. He was deified by his followers after death, just like the Buddha was. Christianity was not his plan.

        Comment


        • #5
          Jesus is my homeboi.
          I really look up to him. I think he was a very intellegent & spiritual man. I think he was on to some things, and was very advanced in the way he saw the world, at the time. He was sort of like one of the Reformed Jewish Rabbies today. He wanted to reform Judaism a bit, he wanted to introduce new religous philosophies & ideas.

          Since he gained a big group of followers & became a popular speaker, the Jewish Sanhendrean (Eldar Council) was affraid he would lead a religous revolution which would:
          1) Threaten the old Jewish traditions.
          2) Get the Romans pissed, and take away the religous autonomy The Jews had in 1st Century Judea.

          So they bribed Judas, and got hold of Jesus, and turned him in for trail with Pontius Pilate. Seeing as dear Pilate was a fan of Crucifing people, and enjoyed torturing Jewis criminals - He sentenced him to death.

          Which sucks a lot. But thats history for ya.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think that there was once a man who walked the earth and "preached" about faith. I don't necessarily believe that he was "the" son of "the" God, but he was a great man none-the-less. He gave hope and peace to people when they needed it most. I also believe that he was made out to be a Martyr (sp?) after his death, and I don't believe that was in intention in the slightest. I believe he was crusified because the people in power at that time did not like someone coming into their neck of the woods and basically empowering the "little people" (class wise) with beliefs that were not the same as the Rulers. Basically, he was killed for Treason. But, that's just my belief.
            Personal Blog comments always welcome
            Misc Pics

            Missing my widdle Soweluitachakitabonitamommika

            Comment


            • #7
              If you take a look at Jesus and what they say he did....he healed the sick, made blind men see, walked on water.....basically ...he did magick. My belief is that he was able to do these things because he was an amazingly enlightened human being. He was as close to a pure spirit as I could ever hope to be. Almost like he's an example of what humanity should one day become. Sometimes, I think that if we were able to shake off all the negativity inside of us, the hate, the cruelty, the envy, all the things that are negative, perhaps we would be closer to the magick....Maybe thats what holds our powers back. Just a very broad opinion .....kinda fluffy huh??

              I love you without knowing how, or when, or from where.
              I love you straightforwardly, without complexities or pride;
              so I love you because I know no other way
              than this:
              so close that your hand on my chest is my hand,
              so close that your eyes close as I fall asleep.

              Pablo Neruda

              Disclaimer: If you're looking for a debate, please look elsewhere. I'm not judging anyone personally, I'm simply stating my opinion. Some people seem to enjoy conflict...I don't. Please save your arguements for someone who does.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Faeawyn
                If you take a look at Jesus and what they say he did....he healed the sick, made blind men see, walked on water.....basically ...he did magick. My belief is that he was able to do these things because he was an amazingly enlightened human being. He was as close to a pure spirit as I could ever hope to be. Almost like he's an example of what humanity should one day become. Sometimes, I think that if we were able to shake off all the negativity inside of us, the hate, the cruelty, the envy, all the things that are negative, perhaps we would be closer to the magick....Maybe thats what holds our powers back. Just a very broad opinion .....kinda fluffy huh??

                theres a belief that Jesus was very knowlegeable in Kabbalah & Healing magic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well. . . I'm not really sure what I believe about Jesus. I used to think he was perhaps just a historical figure, like Plato or Buddha or something. But. . . now I am beginning to wonder. So I'm sort of between ideas.

                  BTW. . . I am confused as to the admin mode. I don't see anything bad going on. . . I can only assume it was part of the edit? If not, I am sadly dissapointed in MW. . .
                  "The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star stuff.
                  We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

                  Carl Sagan, as quoted by The Symphony of Science

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Morr
                    theres a belief that Jesus was very knowlegeable in Kabbalah & Healing magic.
                    Wouldn't surprise me, since He was a Rabbi. Isn't Kabbalah (or however you spell it) part of the Orthodox Jewish tradition?

                    No, Puma, it wasn't part of the edit - Magickboi edited his post on his own after my warning. There wasn't anything bad going on; but it was borderline, and I didn't want it to get any worse.

                    Faith is easy -- until the moment you actually need it.

                    "Since when are facts subjective?" - Athena_Nadine

                    "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
                    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
                    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
                    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                    The best lack all convictions, while the worst
                    Are full of passionate intensity."

                    – W.B. Yeats, "The Second Coming"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a. . .

                      . . .New found respect for Yeshua, and feel he would have had more in common with Pagans today than with Christians. He didn't create Christianity, and I feel that he would be very dissapointed with how "Christian" religions have treated other Faiths in the past and even today.

                      I think its good for those of alternate faiths to meditate on Spiritual Figures that have gone before us. We can learn so much if we just listened and learned all we can.



                      ~Thankyou WynnJera and Faeawyn for these beautiful banners!~

                      *I will walk the paths of Lilitu. Where ever she may tread I shall follow. . .*

                      "Love is sprung from our inmost heart
                      Until only the loved one is and we are not." ~Gilgamesh


                      "Though she is but one, she can do all things, and while remaining in herself she renews all things... she reaches mightily from one end of the world to the other, and she orders all things well" (Book of Wisdom of Solomon, 7:27 8:1)

                      *Symbols connect us to mystery and to the very farthest horizens of conceivable meaning*

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have a deep respect for Jesus, which ironically has only formed since I swung towards Paganism. He was the son of God just like everyone else is. In my view everyone has Spirit's energy flowing through them. I believe that Gods and Goddesses are spirits billions of years old who lived thousands of lifetimes and acheived 'enlightenment'. They realised how the very universes worked having finally shaken off ther vices, and thus became able to alter the very fabric of existance. In my opinion, Jesus was a soul doing his last lifetime before he hit the spiritual jackpot. Such a thing probably only happens, on any plane, every few thousand years, and our race is extremely lucky to have experienced such a rare event such as this.
                        No you don't get cooties from tree hugging, you get faeries instead!

                        "And though we say 'all infomation should be free', it is not. Information has power and currency in the virtual world we inhabit..." ~ Intro of Cyberpunk, by Billy Idol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Phoenix_Blue
                          Isn't Kabbalah (or however you spell it) part of the Orthodox Jewish tradition?
                          Yes, it is, and it was devised by the Spanish rabbi Moshe de Leon in the 13th century. De Leon wrote Sefer HaZohar (Book of Radiance) as a mystical commentary on the Torah, attributed it to the 1st-century rabbi Shimon bar Yohai, and the rest is history.

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