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Couple Things Ive Been Wondering...

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  • Couple Things Ive Been Wondering...

    We watched a movie about Moses made in the 50's in history so we could see what the movie atmosphere was back then and we got to the part where he parts the red sea, and I was wondering...could he have been a socerer? I mean, I dont know if there is anyboddy strong enough to PART A WHOLE FREAKING SEA, but....could he have been? I know theres people who can change and influence weather..


    Someting else I was musing over, in Christianity, would you still go to hell if you suffered for your sins on earth? IE: A man steals something, but then spends years in regret because he sees the person he stole from homeless and starving. He feels guilty and agonizes for years. Or even better, a woman cheats on her husband, her husband finds out and it destroys him, he falls deep into despair and the wife feels remorse untill she dies. Dyou think you would still go to hell?
    [CENTER]You see, none of us chose our end really. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before the Gods you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.

    One's capacity for justice makes Socialism possible.
    One's capacity for injustice makes Socialism necessary.


  • #2
    Of course Moses was a sorcerer. Remember - the Egyptian priests could duplicate his first 4 plague tricks. So there's either more than one God granting these idiotic and suffering-inducing requests, or we've got a sorcerer with a chip on his shoulder.

    Someting else I was musing over, in Christianity, would you still go to hell if you suffered for your sins on earth?
    Yes. Earthly, fleshy suffering doesn't cleanse your imperfections. The point of hell (allegedly) isn't to punish you or make you suffer or cleanse you, but to hold you so you can't infect a Perfect All-Loving God with your sin cooties.

    You must either be perfect (ie sinless) or have a special "Get Out Of Jail Free" card signed by Jesus to make it past the pearly gates, in that particular philosophy.

    Plus, earthly punishment is finite in severity and duration - but (I've heard) turning ones' back on God is an infinite crime (and thus deserving of infinite punishment).

    [Note: Don't think for an instant I actually believe any of that, you understand]
    Last edited by Calzaer; March 7th, 2004, 12:03 PM.

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    • #3
      There's been a whole ton of scientific debate over Moses parting the red sea. I even once saw a documentary about how, with the right weather conditions, not only was it possible, but it was likely to have occured.

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      • #4
        I even once saw a documentary about how, with the right weather conditions, not only was it possible, but it was likely to have occured.
        It's not the parting that's scientifically impossible (even though it actually is). It's the crossing. 40,000 Jews of various and sundry ages crossing 5.2 miles in 4 hours? How many abrest would they have to be walking?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Calzaer
          Of course Moses was a sorcerer. Remember - the Egyptian priests could duplicate his first 4 plague tricks. So there's either more than one God granting these idiotic and suffering-inducing requests, or we've got a sorcerer with a chip on his shoulder.



          Yes. Earthly, fleshy suffering doesn't cleanse your imperfections. The point of hell (allegedly) isn't to punish you or make you suffer or cleanse you, but to hold you so you can't infect a Perfect All-Loving God with your sin cooties.

          You must either be perfect (ie sinless) or have a special "Get Out Of Jail Free" card signed by Jesus to make it past the pearly gates, in that particular philosophy.

          Plus, earthly punishment is finite in severity and duration - but (I've heard) turning ones' back on God is an infinite crime (and thus deserving of infinite punishment).

          [Note: Don't think for an instant I actually believe any of that, you understand]

          That's why reincarnation makes more sense to me. Wouldn't a 'Perfect All-Loving God' give you infinite chances to get it right, instead of saying, "Oh, you screwed up.... 70 year's of f**k ups gets you eternity of Hell...."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Calzaer
            It's not the parting that's scientifically impossible (even though it actually is). It's the crossing. 40,000 Jews of various and sundry ages crossing 5.2 miles in 4 hours? How many abrest would they have to be walking?
            Personally, I don't think anything is impossible. Improbable, yes, but impossible? No, I've seen too many "impossible" things occur...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aine of the Fae
              Personally, I don't think anything is impossible. Improbable, yes, but impossible? No, I've seen too many "impossible" things occur...
              I must agree with that.
              [CENTER]You see, none of us chose our end really. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before the Gods you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.

              One's capacity for justice makes Socialism possible.
              One's capacity for injustice makes Socialism necessary.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aine of the Fae
                That's why reincarnation makes more sense to me. Wouldn't a 'Perfect All-Loving God' give you infinite chances to get it right, instead of saying, "Oh, you screwed up.... 70 year's of f**k ups gets you eternity of Hell...."
                I agree whole-heartedly!

                -Klucky
                <---Yippie sometimes gets sleepy...

                Sorry for my hiatus. I had a serious identity crisis. Stupid book...

                I have written 420 pages of my book.
                It is currently a rough draft.
                I plan its publication to be before I die.

                Drugs in your head
                (Explicit Content)

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                • #9
                  No, I've seen too many "impossible" things occur...
                  James Randi would love to see one or two.

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                  • #10
                    Um, it's a story, you guys.
                    Ben Trismegistus
                    Super-Cool Retired Admin Type

                    R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to me. Click here.


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                    • #11
                      In Jewish Mysticism, it is said that Moses was a great Kabbalist as well as a great leader & a prophet who was the right hand of God. Its believed that Moses knew the full name of Y-H-V-H that is composed of 72 letters in the Hebrew alphabet, and is pronounced in a uinque way that nobody knows. If you were to find out (through aquiring great knowlege of the Torah, Jewish law & Kabbalah, and via years of experience, soul searching & spirituality), this name would give you amazing powers and this is the closest way a human can come to the Divine (in this case the Jewish God). In kabbalah - Moses used this name, ie - Prayed and used the "first name" of Y-H-V-H in a request to save the Jews from the upcoming Egyptians...
                      And thats how he parted the sea...

                      Did he seriously part the sea into complete two halvs? No I dont think so. Did he manage to get Divine to do some type of fun weather/scientifical conditions that would allow the Jews at that point to cross that specific part of the red sea?
                      I believe so.

                      I view Moses the same as Jesus. I believe they were both very spiritual & enlightened men. And I think they both studied Jewish Mysticism, Healing & Magic. Sure, the Kabbalah we know didnt really exist in Moses' days (I think it wasnt completely there either during Jesus' time), but I think he was definitly very spiritual and he sorta was on to something no one else really was, and that these were the roots of Jewish Mysticism as we know it today.

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                      • #12
                        Ben wrote:

                        Um, it's a story, you guys.
                        My best guess is summed up in Ben’s statement.

                        Plus, let’s not forget that the Bible doesn’t actually even say Red Sea – the Hebrew says “Sea of Reeds”, and it was only later tradition and translation that assigned the Red Sea to that story. “Sea of Reeds” sounds a lot more shallow (and crossable) to me than the Red Sea. Also don’t forget that it seems most likely that the entire exodus in Egypt never happened, based on archeology in both Egypt and in the desert.

                        They are nice stories though, – even if that’s all they are.

                        -Equinox
                        -Equinox

                        I like my spirituality because I think it's true. But I love my spirituality because it makes me excited to be part of the universe.
                        - Ben Trimegistus, 2004.2.23 (That's how I feel too!)

                        What do I believe? Find out on my webpage (here):

                        In short, I'm a Naturalistic Pagan (OK, now that link is fixed) who has found a spiritual home at a Unitarian Universalist Church.

                        Useful Data for Pagans:
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Equinox

                          Plus, let’s not forget that the Bible doesn’t actually even say Red Sea – the Hebrew says “Sea of Reeds”, and it was only later tradition and translation that assigned the Red Sea to that story. “Sea of Reeds” sounds a lot more shallow (and crossable) to me than the Red Sea. Also don’t forget that it seems most likely that the entire exodus in Egypt never happened, based on archeology in both Egypt and in the desert.

                          They are nice stories though, – even if that’s all they are.

                          -Equinox

                          Actually, some scientists say that they actually crossed a part of the nile... and once the egyptians got there, it got flooded (i guess from all the rain LOL well, the nile is known to flood during a specific time of the year, the water comes flowing down from the mountains South from Egypt... I'm not sure if its in Sudan)..

                          So yeah..

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                          • #14
                            {From a Christian perspective} Moses didn't part the Red Sea - God did. Moses was a holy man of God, but he was not sorcerer. The Bible is very specific in its admonishment against witchcraft and sorcery. So God would not have granted sorcerous powers to Moses as that would go against the teachings of the Old Testament Scriptures.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cerek
                              {From a Christian perspective} Moses didn't part the Red Sea - God did. Moses was a holy man of God, but he was not sorcerer. The Bible is very specific in its admonishment against witchcraft and sorcery. So God would not have granted sorcerous powers to Moses as that would go against the teachings of the Old Testament Scriptures.
                              If youre talking about Kabbalah & Jewish Mysticism then this is a very legitamite thing according to Judaism... and Kabballah does involve meditation, charms, herbology & healing.. Witchcraft or not, this is accepted by Jews and Jewish religous law... and Christianity stemmed from Judaism (Jesus was probably a Kabbalist & Jewish Mystic himself)... So yeah... and PS - nobody ever said that Moses himself did a hokus pocus dealio - He performed the "miracle" via God, through prayer.. Thats what they teach us in Jewish Bible Class..
                              the Christian God is the same as the Jewish God, you just have to take away Jesus & Mary..

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