Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Noble Savage myth covers up truth

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Noble Savage myth covers up truth

    Noble Savage myth covers up truth

    The truth is that human beings have not, cannot, and never will live in harmony with nature. Our prosperity and health depend on technology driven by energy. We exercise our intelligence to command nature, and were admonished by Francis Bacon to exercise our dominion with “sound reason and true religion.”
    From here.

    (I'm quoting this paragraph because I believe it highlights the whole article).

    Do you agree with this paragraph? Do you believe that human beings cannot live in harmony with nature?
    Facebook::Witch blog::Book Blog
    Gods and Goddesses, Paths: Dianic & Goddess Witchcraft, Theology & Philosophy, Just Current Events, and Political Pagan Forum Guide.

    Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha

    Question everything.

  • #2
    I'd say probably not, but, I don't think humans can live in harmony with each other either. I'm reading, at the moment, a book called 'The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History' by Howard Bloom, it, basically, shows how humans are evil bitches, and will always step on each other to get what they want.

    Comment


    • #3
      On one hand, I think it could definitely be argued that human beings are part of "nature," so there really is no separation between humanity and "nature."

      On the other hand, it could also be argued that people can and should take better care of the aspects of nature that we're screwing up. I think this is possible. Humans also have a pretty strong instinct for self-preservation... and we can't exist without the rest of the world.
      sigpic

      Forum Guide: Gods and Goddesses

      MW Tarot Readings NOT currently accepting tarot reading requests via PM, but will answer posts in the Reading Request subforum if it is possible for me to do so. :spinnysmi

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David19 View Post
        I'd say probably not, but, I don't think humans can live in harmony with each other either. I'm reading, at the moment, a book called 'The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History' by Howard Bloom, it, basically, shows how humans are evil bitches, and will always step on each other to get what they want.
        Not all people are this way,,for every one who is an evil bitch,,there are many more who have given their all to serve the interests of another. A man can choose evil or good,,and some will always choose evil,,and some will choose good.

        We each have the ability to love and hate.

        Comment


        • #5
          Our population is such now that we can no longer feasibly live without destroying the natural resources on this planet. Those horrid subdivisions they put up almost daily destroy acres at a time and leave gaping, symmetrical scars on the surface of the planet. But that's now... in the past...

          Well, as the article states, the "noble savage" is an idea... and an exaggerated one at that, based on half hazard knowledge and idealism. It's the idea that things were always better in the past, and it's a nostalgic way of coping with the horrors of the present. You know it as "Back in the day," or "When I was a young lad."

          There is no proof of Eden... and the idea that man, in the beginning, was somehow more innocent is again, just this moral nostalgia to teach us to try and live more peacefully.

          Convallaria


          Comment


          • #6
            I strongly disagree with them. If humans are descended from beings that DID, in fact, "live inharmony with nature", then we are perfectly capable of doing so now. BUT it may not be the most desirable thing coming from a human perspective. We are of nature even if we tend to distance ourselves from it, and like Brightshores said, humans have a strong instinct for self-preservation and we feel most confident in that when we learn to "command" nature.

            I do think that humans work often as a destructive force within nature, but creation and destruction are both parts of nature. Either way, we still have our place in the world, and I'm convinced we are a lot more fragile than we would like to think we are. Our environment has shown us this over and over again, it seems it will just take a catastrophic event to get more of us to realize that...

            That was kind of a rant there........
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BlackMagicalCat View Post
              Not all people are this way,,for every one who is an evil bitch,,there are many more who have given their all to serve the interests of another. A man can choose evil or good,,and some will always choose evil,,and some will choose good.

              We each have the ability to love and hate.
              True, but, that is in spite of being human, not because of it, people can choose to do good, in spite of our programming (biological, psychological, etc).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stoirmeacha View Post
                I strongly disagree with them. If humans are descended from beings that DID, in fact, "live inharmony with nature", then we are perfectly capable of doing so now. BUT it may not be the most desirable thing coming from a human perspective. We are of nature even if we tend to distance ourselves from it, and like Brightshores said, humans have a strong instinct for self-preservation and we feel most confident in that when we learn to "command" nature.

                I do think that humans work often as a destructive force within nature, but creation and destruction are both parts of nature. Either way, we still have our place in the world, and I'm convinced we are a lot more fragile than we would like to think we are. Our environment has shown us this over and over again, it seems it will just take a catastrophic event to get more of us to realize that...

                That was kind of a rant there........
                Personally, I don't think the original humans did live "in harmony with nature", at least, not like most people imagine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The more technologically advanced we become, the more alienated we are from nature. I see a lot of people who have never been on a farm, for example. To them, milk comes from the grocery store. How can they possibly understand nature when nature is something they see on tv now and then?

                  What makes me esp sad are the inner city kids who barely see a patch of grass, let alone a horse or cow. They have no concept of "nature" let alone any idea of how to treat it. Hell, they don't even know how to treat one another!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am wondering if the concept of a harmonious nature is a myth in itself?

                    Everything that lives does so in a state of competition, conflict and stress. Competition exists for space and food, conflict between access to food sources and, in predator prey relationships, between the one that wants to eat and the one that does not want to be eaten. The drive to reproduce adds to the pressure. Stress is experienced just in surviving another day.

                    Additionally, the world is in a constant state of change, as revealed by the geological record.

                    What real harmony is there?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TygerTyger View Post
                      I am wondering if the concept of a harmonious nature is a myth in itself?

                      Everything that lives does so in a state of competition, conflict and stress. Competition exists for space and food, conflict between access to food sources and, in predator prey relationships, between the one that wants to eat and the one that does not want to be eaten. The drive to reproduce adds to the pressure. Stress is experienced just in surviving another day.

                      Additionally, the world is in a constant state of change, as revealed by the geological record.

                      What real harmony is there?
                      Well, one could argue it's harmony in the sense that it's a system that works and tends to correct itself and generally hums along pretty well. I think when people hear the word "harmony" they tend to think of peace and love and all that crap.


                      I think that, ultimately, we live in harmony with nature whether we want to or not. As others have pointed out, we are part of nature. If we don't live in accordance with natural laws natural selection ensures we'll be replaced by a dominant species that does.
                      Originally posted by David19
                      Personally, I don't think the original humans did live "in harmony with nature", at least, not like most people imagine.
                      Yep. People have this idea of an Eden-like paradise before the Indiustrial Age, but that just isn't so. Mayan farming practices likely played a huge role in their decline, and the so-called peaceful peoples either weren't peaceful or they got wiped out by others who weren't.
                      "I would rather make the gravest of mistakes than surrender my own judgement." -- Cora Munroe in Last of the Mohicans

                      "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Conan the Barbarian in "Tower of the Elephant" by Robert E. Howard

                      "Moral outrage has little effect on a cat." -- Garrison Keillor

                      "There aren't many problems than can't be fixed
                      with $700 and a .30-06." -- Jeff Cooper. Or maybe it was his daughter Lindy. I can't remember.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by David19 View Post
                        Personally, I don't think the original humans did live "in harmony with nature", at least, not like most people imagine.
                        As much as most living organisms, in my opinion.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Philosophia View Post
                          Noble Savage myth covers up truth

                          The truth is that human beings have not, cannot, and never will live in harmony with nature. Our prosperity and health depend on technology driven by energy. We exercise our intelligence to command nature, and were admonished by Francis Bacon to exercise our dominion with “sound reason and true religion.”
                          (...)
                          Do you agree with this paragraph? Do you believe that human beings cannot live in harmony with nature?
                          I disagree with that paragraph. I think we can, if we set our minds to it. The fact that some of us haven't thus far, I chalk up to religions claiming that the world was created for benefit of mankind. With our outlook on our position in nature changing, so will our abuse of nature. I foresee promising results from our energy-saving and environmently-friendlier courses of living and manufacturing.
                          Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
                          Contact me | The Dialogues on Checkerism

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Valnorran View Post
                            Well, one could argue it's harmony in the sense that it's a system that works and tends to correct itself and generally hums along pretty well. I think when people hear the word "harmony" they tend to think of peace and love and all that crap.


                            I think that, ultimately, we live in harmony with nature whether we want to or not. As others have pointed out, we are part of nature. If we don't live in accordance with natural laws natural selection ensures we'll be replaced by a dominant species that does.

                            Yep. People have this idea of an Eden-like paradise before the Indiustrial Age, but that just isn't so. Mayan farming practices likely played a huge role in their decline, and the so-called peaceful peoples either weren't peaceful or they got wiped out by others who weren't.
                            Thanks, and also great post, I didn't know that about the Mayan's, but, I think it's a nice tale people tell themselves, that humans originally "lived in peace", and that they "can go back to it", but, that, IMO, just isn't true. I really do recommend people read 'The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History' by Howard Bloom if they're interested in this kind of topic at all, it's a great book, again, IMO.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Valnorran View Post
                              Well, one could argue it's harmony in the sense that it's a system that works and tends to correct itself and generally hums along pretty well. I think when people hear the word "harmony" they tend to think of peace and love and all that crap.


                              I think that, ultimately, we live in harmony with nature whether we want to or not. As others have pointed out, we are part of nature. If we don't live in accordance with natural laws natural selection ensures we'll be replaced by a dominant species that does.

                              Yep. People have this idea of an Eden-like paradise before the Indiustrial Age, but that just isn't so. Mayan farming practices likely played a huge role in their decline, and the so-called peaceful peoples either weren't peaceful or they got wiped out by others who weren't.
                              The closest that usual definitions of ‘harmony’ come to that would be an ‘accord’, however that is not the popular understanding of the word when used in the suggested context. “In harmony with nature suggests a non-combative, peaceful, interrelated existence, not merely co-existence which implies living outside of nature.

                              Nature is not a peaceful representation of existence, it’s very violent and stressful where survival is the overriding instinct. Life forms will do whatever they can to promote their own survival, including changing their immediate environment, human beings are certainly not unique in this respect.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X