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  • Patron Diety Help!

    Hey, I'm somewhat confused going about the process of finding a patron deities. I definitely want Pan, but also would like Freya. Since they're from different mythologies I wasn't sure if that was acceptable or not. How did you go about finding your goddess and god?

    Help is appreciated!:hahugh:
    Last edited by MourningMoon; January 6th, 2012, 10:21 PM.

  • #2
    It comes to you in different ways. But usually it's not you choosing them; they choose you. Though your preconceived ideas on which deities you like can factor in.
    Keep meditating and focusing.

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    • #3
      Yeah having a patron is very much about the God and Goddess picking you, not really the other way around. Meditations and circles with the intent to connect to a deity can help. Although in my personal experience they aren't necessary. I just went on my way, studying and learning, until the Morrigan (now my Patroness) made herself known to me in several very obvious ways.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MourningMoon View Post
        Hey, I'm somewhat confused going about the process of finding a patron deities. I definitely want Pan, but also would like Freya. Since they're from different mythologies I wasn't sure if that was acceptable or not. How did you go about finding your goddess and god?

        Help is appreciated!:hahugh:
        I'd like to see what the more experienced have to say about that part. Takers?
        "The magnificent, marvelous, mad, mad, mad, mad Madam Mim!" ~ Madam Mim, Sword in the Stone



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        • #5
          Others may disagree but to me many times finding ones god / goddess is like applying for a job.

          You have situations where you walk in and the potential employeer simply looks at you and tells you they've been waiting for you to come in. They've been watching you and know all about you though you may or may not even know why. Yet the moment you walk through the doorway you know without a doubt this is the place for you and the place you have longed for. But it also feels as if the place itself has longed for your arrival and has been paiently awaiting your arrival. THat's what it has been like for me with all of my divinities. Artemis told me I was her's in no uncertain terms and it was not up for discussion. Hekate / Hecate pretty much the same though she was never sttated I was her's it was more like it was always known.

          Then you have the job search type situation. Your research your likes and dislikes and submit you applications to the various business. If your lucky the business might call you in for an interview and see how you might fit into the system. So may even agree to give you a probation period to see if your a good fit for thier organizaiton. Some gods / goddess are the same way, they hear you call them and invite you in and look you over. Maybe even give you a trial run to see if your the right sort and posses the traits they want or desire in a person.

          The problem here is always that many will think they found the right place because they were invited in or given a probation period. Yet they never are hired but they still maintain that it is the place for them because they've convinced themselves it is. Talk up the business and try to win their way in and hope that other's believe what they say or try to convence themselves to believe. I find that many new pagan's tend to fall deeply into this grouping. They think they are choosen by a god / goddess and go all out yet the god / goddess never did choose them but they are postive they were choosen.

          Then their is the business that does not want your application nor even want you to cross their doorway. Sometimes even appearing as rude to drive home the point they want nothing to do with you. In some ways like going to the counter to be served but the person behind the counter simply ignores you as they attend to the others who were invited or at least encouraged to come in.

          Many times I find people have a leaning towards a god / goddess that is based upon what they think the god / goddess is and not what they actually are. Hekate / Hecate is one such who is always choosen because she is the "Goddess of Witches and Magic!" yet as one who honors and follow her that is so small a facet that it is almost invisible. Yet still they come failing to realize Hekate / Hecate is one who either says you are mine or out right ignores you, there is no lets get to know each other and see what happens. Nor is there a you can take me as you choose, its her way or the highway and she makes no bones about it.

          I find that people also assume that because a representitive was sent to look you over that it follows you were selected. Yet that to frequently seems to happen, the ever popular I dreampt of Athena and now she has to be my patron. Then they convence themselves of how they see her again and again after that. I saw an Owl it must be Athena, I saw a shield it must be Athena. Ironically in my experience there never is any doubt as to what is a sign from your god / goddess, especially the smack to the head that follows when you don't listen or recognize it.

          In some ways your saying "I want Pan" but "I'd also like Freya" almost sounds like your buying ice cream and shows a certain amount of disrespect for both of them. Perhaps even like your choosing a fantasy football team and picking the players but have no real knowledge of them or what they truly represent or endorse.

          I honestly can't answer on how you go about discovering which god / goddess will accept you for none of mine were discovered that way, mine all moved through many visions, dreams and encounter's indicating I was choosen by them in no uncertain terms. But I have seen all of them turn a cold shoulder to someone who decided that the must be thier patron / matron for they had choosen them to be so. In many ways as fool hardy as walking into a bar and saying your going to be my friend because I choose you but know nothing about you really. Then be pissed off when they tell you to take a hike or push you away for disrespecting them.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MrsLynch View Post
            I'd like to see what the more experienced have to say about that part. Takers?
            That really goes back to the individual in many instances. I am sworn and bound to Hekate / Hecate and Artemis who are both Greek and Anatolian. Yet I am also sworn and bound to Bastet and Pahket of Egyptain pantheons. There are factors that cross over easily between the two pantheons and other things that seperate them to such an extent that I have to be mindfull of it when I make libations and offerings. Yet its also workable in that the Greeks who settled in Egypt equated both Bastet and Pahket with Artemis and their mythology is intertwined when looking through texts and tales.

            Yet think of how Greek and Anatolian offerings were done through transformation via fire or the pouring of libations upon the ground or altar. Yet libations and offerings in Egypt was to offer the essence of a thing to the gods when it came to food or drink then to consume the actual item. Calanders where based upon differing systems, ie the Egyptian based upon three cycles of the Nile and its floods the early Greek / Anatolian upon the passage of the moon then later changed to reflect a solar calendar with differing reference points. Yet none of them built upon a Wicca based calander or Wiccan styles of worship, ceremony and ritual. Things that might appear to be minor issues or major hurdles depending upon the individual practitioner and the pathway they walk.

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            • #7
              Do what you will. I'm a polytheist at heart. I prefer a Universe full of Gods and Goddesses. It doesn't mean that myths reflect exactly who they are. The myths have changed over time. Cultures clash with other cultures. The divine beings shift in power, purpose, and importance as the cultures collide. Some disappear all together. And this is just when when two very distinct cultures meet. Within many cultures, it was rare to find the same ideas of divinity from tribe to tribe, or city to city. Plenty was similar, but there was plenty to set them apart. Add to all of this the passage of time. Now you get real big shifts where before they may have been subtle.

              All I'm saying is don't worry about it. Research. Get to know the Gods that appeal to you across all time. That includes today's modern works. Ignore the opinion that only the ancients had access to divine truth. It's all UPG. ALL of it. You can get in the consistent stream, and you can benefit from the fringes. They matter. I'm fond of Odin, Freya, Frey, Isis, Ganesha, Quan Yin, Buddha, and many others. Nothing has stopped me from connecting with these energies. Whether they be metaphor, archetype, powers, and/or the real deal, I don't think they're holed up in whatever we think of them.

              Have fun. The journey, learning, and building connections is what matters. Finding what gives you the benefits of spirituality is on your shoulders. Rejoice in that. There are no holy texts that will tell you this is the one way. That's freedom.

              --Kaos
              “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
                They think they are choosen by a god / goddess and go all out yet the god / goddess never did choose them but they are postive they were choosen.
                I'm curious about this statement. If they're sure they were chosen and go through a lifetime of practice devoted to that god/goddess, who are you to say they aren't? How would you explain that? Because later you go on to say that yours chose you through visions and dreams, similar to what many others experience, and you know this in no uncertain terms.

                Your experience I'm sure was deep and heartfelt, what's to say others experiences were not?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by aynfean View Post
                  I'm curious about this statement. If they're sure they were chosen and go through a lifetime of practice devoted to that god/goddess, who are you to say they aren't? How would you explain that? Because later you go on to say that yours chose you through visions and dreams, similar to what many others experience, and you know this in no uncertain terms.

                  Your experience I'm sure was deep and heartfelt, what's to say others experiences were not?
                  Yet me reply with a more mundane example.

                  I knew this young man that was madly in love with this young woman. They had gone through school together since they were in 1st grade. Now he was positive that this young lady loved him with an equal love to his own. He drempt of her all the time, spoke to her everyday over the years. Played with her after school and attended almost all of her birthdays and other special days of her life. Wrote volumes to her and about her from his perspective. All most like a stalker did her profess his love and dedication to her for all to hear.

                  Yet to her he was just a face in the crowd. She felt nothing for him beyond a weak sense of friendship at best but nothing romantic or awe inspiring. Even when he spoke to her she managed to catch a word here or there but never paid full attention. His letters and poems never read but clutter upon the floor of her life yet to be nice she would return a comment of its was nice or something similiar to soothe him. Never once did she say she cared yet he understood her every action to be the recpercation of his love and commitment to her.

                  He saw what he wanted to see in her actions. He felt what he wanted to feel and believed what he desired even though there was no true indicator that he was right in his beliefs. His imagination was the basis of his beliefs in regards to that young woman who he had known since he was a child. Realility finaly came crashing in upon his dream world and he discovered there never had been anything there and he moved on. Yes it was catastrophic to his being at the time and he swore he'd never love again and all the other means of beating himself up over his foolishness.

                  NOw we who were his friends told him such many times over the years. Truths that resulted in arguments and fights as he refused to believe them. We listened to the girl of his dreams as she complained to us about his unwanted attention and devotion and how to get him to leave her alone.

                  Yet like many pagan's who so desperatley want to believe they have been choosen and their commitment has been accepted and recongized they see what they want to see. Most times originating with a "I choose" when it comes to their dieties, frequently coupled to a "I drempt of them" or "They came to me". Though I have to admit your statement reminds me of that friend from long ago who justified his belief about his unreturned love based upon his emotional connections and when any one spoke of it they had to be wrong.

                  Now I admit there are some who have love at first sieght and it is returned with a passion. That is the way it occurs with gods / goddessess at times though perhaps strangely I find those are the most uncertain for the dedicant often asks themselves am I dreaming or seeing something that isn't there. That uncertanity a driving factor which pushes them to discover more and more about the person they are so connected to.

                  But in the end if what I say is of such concern and affront to thier belief and practice then there is more at issue. Issues they have to face on their own though my words may have been teh catalyst that makes them re-evaluate thier practices and themselves.

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                  • #10
                    So... the gods and goddesses tell you that they don't want the service of those pledging themselves to them?

                    It's an interesting example but I don't think it applies. My question was how do YOU know that who is chosen by the deities and who is not.

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                    • #11
                      I don't really get the point of the example... it's a good analogy... but it's not really very reflective of the situation. In the example, the girl was able to tell both him, and the other people, that she was not interested.

                      But in relations to someone's deity, it's between them and the deity. How could anyone else actually know if someone is or isn't? You can't. Maybe someone might sound full of it, or might just jump on a bandwagon of some deity, but no one else can really know except that person. Maybe sometimes when someone thinks they've been "chosen" it's really just something to try out.. maybe it could develop further.. like a date, to go back more to your own example. Or if someone feels drawn to a specific deity, then they wish to pursue to see if things work... at the beginning it migh be like a honeymoon phase before the person realizes that it really doesn't work. But they won't know that unless they pursue their studies and worship.

                      Sorry if I don't make as much sense as I want to, I'm a bit sleepy and I don't believe in any deities, I just thought I'd try to weigh in on this conversation.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Calicolynx View Post
                        I don't really get the point of the example... it's a good analogy... but it's not really very reflective of the situation. In the example, the girl was able to tell both him, and the other people, that she was not interested.
                        But if one believes in the gods / goddesses then they to can speak and tell both the person involved and others about them. I'll expound a bit more on this below.

                        But in relations to someone's deity, it's between them and the deity.
                        To a degree I do agree. Yet all relationships have a componet that is unique to the pairing alone but also have a componet that is common to all that have a relationship with a given divinity.


                        How could anyone else actually know if someone is or isn't? You can't.
                        That's not competely true. If you go through the threads where people discuss their relationships with the same god or goddess you see many similarities with all of them. Even when you look at the dis-similiar facets there are many that are similiar enough that you can see where they are close to one another. Here I'm not even speaking of the dogma of a pathway but a lot of the UPG that is shared between followers of the same god / goddesses. Yes there are parts where the message or lesson pertains to the individual but many times even the lesson logic and or reasoning is similiar for all the followers.

                        Many times it stands out like a sore thumb when a person claims something and it doesn't fit.

                        Maybe someone might sound full of it, or might just jump on a bandwagon of some deity, but no one else can really know except that person.
                        Again not entirely true. As I stated if you look over the threads were devotees of that god / goddess speak you see many similarities between thier practices and UPG. If you look to any compilation of stories in books dedicated to a given god / goddess again you see the same base similarities in thier stories. But part of it I admit is not clear to one who does not follow that god / goddess so may not see themselves or their practice in the response.

                        Maybe sometimes when someone thinks they've been "chosen" it's really just something to try out.. maybe it could develop further.. like a date, to go back more to your own example. Or if someone feels drawn to a specific deity, then they wish to pursue to see if things work... at the beginning it migh be like a honeymoon phase before the person realizes that it really doesn't work. But they won't know that unless they pursue their studies and worship.
                        But that is a common relationship development. It's when it carries on and on that you really see it. I suppose one might go so far as to say the moment they open thier mouths it becomes apparent.

                        Sorry if I don't make as much sense as I want to, I'm a bit sleepy and I don't believe in any deities, I just thought I'd try to weigh in on this conversation.
                        Not a problem in my eyes. I think I understood your points and tried to answer to them. As far as weighing in on the conversation I enjoy that as well for it always makes me think of possibilities I might not have considered.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MonSno_LeeDra View Post
                          That's not competely true. If you go through the threads where people discuss their relationships with the same god or goddess you see many similarities with all of them. Even when you look at the dis-similiar facets there are many that are similiar enough that you can see where they are close to one another. Here I'm not even speaking of the dogma of a pathway but a lot of the UPG that is shared between followers of the same god / goddesses. Yes there are parts where the message or lesson pertains to the individual but many times even the lesson logic and or reasoning is similiar for all the followers.

                          Many times it stands out like a sore thumb when a person claims something and it doesn't fit.

                          Again not entirely true. As I stated if you look over the threads were devotees of that god / goddess speak you see many similarities between thier practices and UPG. If you look to any compilation of stories in books dedicated to a given god / goddess again you see the same base similarities in thier stories. But part of it I admit is not clear to one who does not follow that god / goddess so may not see themselves or their practice in the response.
                          That's true, if you compare different people's experiences you can see similarities. But if someone hasn't (yet?) had too much experience with a deity then it's easy to see how it would be hard to tell. (oh dear, not sure if that made sense!). But then, on the other hand, if someone was to start spouting out all sorts of experiences that don't mesh quite as well, especially if they're "extreme" (for lack of a better word) then that would definitely send out signals that perhaps they really weren't interacting with that deity. At the same time, if someone was well read (bahaha I wrote real wed first!) they could mimic the experience and no one would know the difference... why anyone would is beyond me, but hey, it's possible!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Calicolynx View Post
                            That's true, if you compare different people's experiences you can see similarities. But if someone hasn't (yet?) had too much experience with a deity then it's easy to see how it would be hard to tell. (oh dear, not sure if that made sense!).
                            I think a lot of times even if there is but very limited exposure the sense of it rings through. Granted for those who are followers or devotee's of a given god / goddess its easier to see but equally difficult for them to see it in another god / goddess devotee's or followers. But I think it also part of what I was saying about the questioning of ourselves as to was it real or imagined, in order to explain it we seek further into it and that many times brigns on other experiences.

                            But then, on the other hand, if someone was to start spouting out all sorts of experiences that don't mesh quite as well, especially if they're "extreme" (for lack of a better word) then that would definitely send out signals that perhaps they really weren't interacting with that deity
                            .

                            Extreme though can be the most accurate word to describe it. Sometimes I ask myself WTF was that person talking about. Even going so far as to speak on other boards about it to see if it might be something others have experienced. Sad but I find many times trickster gods / goddesses love to interact with those type things and really mess with your head and make believe they are the god / goddess in question. I don't follow a Nordic type pathway but seem's I read a lot about Loki doing such type things, Coyote will do it with certain Native American Nations though not all.

                            At the same time, if someone was well read (bahaha I wrote real wed first!) they could mimic the experience and no one would know the difference... why anyone would is beyond me, but hey, it's possible!
                            I actually ran into a person like that once. Initially you think its really neat and they are close to the god / goddess in quesiton. Yet after a bit it dawns on you that your hearing one of the epic stories almost word for word in what happens. One factor really giving it away is tht they do have words to cover the whole experience which to me is a clue to the falseness of it many times. While I can't speak for other's I find that I never have the means or words to convey what I experienced only a general gist or feeling of it. Granted sometimes exact phrases are used and their is no doubt as to how to convey it. It's like when Artemis spoke about a statue I was going to buy when I was in Korfu / Corfu Greece and she said "That's that Roman Diana not me!" It's not hard to convey that and the meaning it conveyed. Yet when in journey and Artemis carried me to a high mountain peak and showed me the world about it that I can't put into words for it was all in constant motion and changing. No words I could write or speak would even come close to conveying the emotions, thoughs and visuals being shown.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with a good part of that. It's a combination of things for me, as to why. I'm a hard polytheist and I'm an existentialist-- to me, the gods are individual beings and are part of a fabric of reality. They have definite personalities and forms and what we are able to see and interpret physically, while varying due to human perception and imagination, is going to be relatively consistent. I feel that this is supported by the common experiences many people have with certain deities, which indicates to me that the gods exist in some form beyond immanent reality, beyond our varying perceptions. They transcend the universe just as much as they are a part of it.

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