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  • #16
    holy fog
    by Scott Hill (copyright May 2009)
    Here I was.
    Like the kid who really believes
    in his little orphan annie ring.
    Knowing some of the rules
    would have to be suspended.
    I hadn't consciously acknowledged
    my legendary lack of tact.

    There I was.
    And I started playing the crusader to that
    founder/princess/sorority sister
    Arch-Lady in the sky we all paid unconscious homage to
    "If only... her" they scrawled in awe in diaries
    while she bit her fingernails in the shadows.
    She was priestess of the pursestrings
    and more, where more meant little.

    I could climb those ranks, yes,
    but no one saw that my feet - if nothing else -
    were planted in soil, not on rungs.
    I wrote, "In this circle I am safe".
    I should have known, but didn't know,
    I was eating a pomegranate seed.
    I believed it, yes, oh yes, and it's true,
    but a truth in shadow that
    I will never know the same way twice.

    My mother's favorite weapon, charity
    was bobbing in the cauldron, wasn't it?
    And the council of fluff was chanting
    let.it.go while drinking fairy ale
    and impersonating the Romany on six figures
    and saying, "It was our spell that did it,
    yeah girl, I patriarched his ass!"
    A spell like a cunningly hidden wardrobe
    with a pretty obvious knob.
    But nothing holy ever came of it.

    In her last life, this princess
    was administrator to the inquisition -
    a recorder of names as curses
    who now curses me with my name.
    And now there is something less of me
    but a better less
    because Tyr took me out of the temple
    where the comeliest fairy gets the shiniest whip

    and gave me into the care of Odin
    where a new student at the fog
    earned my respect and my worry with a question.
    If he wants so much to believe,
    why can't I just let him believe?
    But how can you believe in garlands
    that lie dead upon the earth?

    ButterflyDissected, you know a name.
    A key that only someone not you
    would turn. Be not tempted.
    You've seen where I worship
    from over the hills.
    You've been told it has a price,
    but it has none.

    WaveDancer, you broke a trust,
    but earned a greater trust
    that maybe we'll know
    in future lives. Be not shy.
    Don't just let the waves wash over you when there are wolves nearby.
    You've seen the gods I worship
    from your place by the chalkboard.

    LoathLorien, you'll never be at rest
    and I wanted you to go for your sake.
    Now I want you to stay most of all
    because you may sometimes know peace,
    but yours is not a life lived in peace. Be not at peace.
    You've seen my artistry, such as it is:
    You know those ladies need some Loki.

    Here I am
    where I probably knew I'd be
    and they want a crusade against the infidel
    and you could see me cry if
    too many bloody paintbrushes hadn't crossed my cheek.
    I'm proud of crying, proud of being poor enough
    to have to eat ramen noodles.
    And waves keep creeping forward in every strophe
    so that I always wash up far downstream

    I have a father and a mother,
    true ones, oh so much in my life,
    lovers who strain my breath
    with feverish refining fire.
    You insist let.it.go
    and you have my e-mail and my list of questions.
    One of my ribs is your tradition without your founder
    and something holy did come of that.
    I'm here, telling you take.it.up
    Blessings,
    P. Rex

    My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
    My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
    An ezine I co-founded: http://spiraltree.weebly.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Well, Sacred Mists proved to me today that they don't want anyone to let.it.go.
      I wrote yesterday to request that they remove my endorsement from their site (as I asked them to do last summer).
      I wrote:
      _____________________________________________________
      Hello Ma'am,

      It has recently come to my attention that you are using my words to promote your business without my permission. Please remove my endorsement (and any other materials with the exception of rituals that I have given you permission to use) from your website as per my request when I left the Mists. I appreciate that you are busy, so I will allow you a week's time in which to do so. Once these words are removed, I will no longer have any reason to post about my experiences at the Mists in public forums because the Mists will no longer be actively using my statement for monetary gain.

      Sincerely,
      Rev. Scott Hill, sometimes known as Vanamee
      _______________________________________________________
      They responded:
      Good Friday to you Rev. Hill,
      We are happy to accept your offer as outlined in your email dated May 14, 2009, wherein
      you request that we remove your testimonial from our website and when done, you will
      cease to post regarding your experiences at Sacred Mists College.
      We ask, that as part of this agreement, you post a final response to the threads in
      question, consisting of the fact that you have been in contact with Sacred Mists and
      have come to a satisfactory conclusion in your association with Sacred Mists. No
      details are needed or expected.
      If you agree with our request, please reply with your acceptance back to me and the
      testimonial will be removed within 24 hours of your agreement.
      We truly regret your unsatisfactory experience with Sacred Mists and accept
      responsibility for any mistakes that we made. We wish you and your family brightest
      blessings and success in your future endeavors and are looking forward to hearing back
      from you.
      It is our hope that we are all able to move on from here with peace and light in our
      hearts.
      May the Goddess bless you,
      Amethyst Lilyth M.
      "Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in
      it. Begin now." - Goethe
      ________________________________________________________
      So I responded:
      Hello Ma'am,

      I'm sorry. I think you misunderstood my e-mail. I'm asking you to do something ethical for the sake of ethics. I'm also asking you to do it because it's the legal action to take in regard to endorsements. I'm not making an agreement with you in order that you may prevent damage to your corporation's reputation. Indeed, I cannot enter into an agreement with you because 1) you may still be using my materials on the private portion of your website without my permission just as you're using them on the public portion of your site, 2) I cannot believe in any agreement made by a business whose members have libeled me in the past because the agreement may not be honored and 3) I cannot enter into an agreement with someone who offers a business pseudonym in place of a legal name.

      I'm sorry that you continue to refuse to comply with my request, as I would love to put this situation to rest. Although I know your business has the money and influence to escape many legal repercussions, I will have to try recourse through government agencies.

      Thank You for Your Time,
      S.H.
      "People are still trading crime for crime."
      -Ani DiFranco
      ____________________________________________________________
      Now, the FTC says this about endorsements:
      "endorsements must also reflect the honest opinions, findings, beliefs, or experience of the endorser."
      and
      "Additionally," states the agency, "the advertiser may continue to run the advertisement only so long as he has good reason to believe that the endorser remains a bona fide user of the product."
      _____________________________________________________________
      In other words, the "leaders" at Sacred Mists want to force me to give up my legal right to post my opinions in public forums and offer a bogus statement of reconciliation just so they'll do what ethics and the law require them to do anyway.
      I guess some people won't do what's right unless there's some kind of profit in it for them. At least this correspondence proves that a member of the SM council knows that her website contains lies that she will not remove. I wonder how many more of those endorsements are being used falsely.
      So, to whomever asked me why I said Janet Farrar and Gavin Bone are associated with a criminal organization, here's further proof. Farrar and Bone are tied into a program that not only libels its former members; it's also a program that refuses to practice honest advertising.
      Blessings,
      Scott
      Blessings,
      P. Rex

      My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
      My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
      An ezine I co-founded: http://spiraltree.weebly.com

      Comment


      • #18
        Hey Scott, you must have really stirred the pot, man, because the website is now inactive. Looks like you put the fear of Goddess in 'em, ya did!

        Have yourself a drink and pat yourself on the back!

        It is because of potential situations like this that it is a matter of policy for me never to involve myself in any kind of religious institution, especially such institutions that like to make a buck.
        My God is a real Ass; He butchered the Dying-and-Rising Lord, He stole the Eye from the Hawk, He sires the Children of Rebellion, and He lusts after God and Goddess alike. Every green and growing thing shrivels into dust at His touch; every convention is violated by the seed of His loins. He brings drought and infertility to the land, and He has no respect for the crook or the flail. Yet without Him, the slave would never break free from his bondage, the evil serpent would devour the sun, and the future would never come to pass.

        The song of the tempest is His name.


        Khepher-I-Suti

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Darth Brooks View Post
          Hey Scott, you must have really stirred the pot, man, because the website is now inactive. Looks like you put the fear of Goddess in 'em, ya did!

          Have yourself a drink and pat yourself on the back!

          It is because of potential situations like this that it is a matter of policy for me never to involve myself in any kind of religious institution, especially such institutions that like to make a buck.
          what website would that be?
          if it's Sacred Mists no fear they are still up and running. :smileroll

          and it appears Lady Raven answered to Scott on that blog so I hope he and they can now just move on.

          Blessings.
          PW

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by PaganWitch View Post
            what website would that be?
            if it's Sacred Mists no fear they are still up and running. :smileroll
            Woops, nevermind. My mistake. The URL listed in the OP, however, has most certainly been taken down.

            and it appears Lady Raven answered to Scott on that blog so I hope he and they can now just move on.
            One can always hope.
            Last edited by Darth Brooks; May 16th, 2009, 09:07 AM.
            My God is a real Ass; He butchered the Dying-and-Rising Lord, He stole the Eye from the Hawk, He sires the Children of Rebellion, and He lusts after God and Goddess alike. Every green and growing thing shrivels into dust at His touch; every convention is violated by the seed of His loins. He brings drought and infertility to the land, and He has no respect for the crook or the flail. Yet without Him, the slave would never break free from his bondage, the evil serpent would devour the sun, and the future would never come to pass.

            The song of the tempest is His name.


            Khepher-I-Suti

            Comment


            • #21
              No worries, dude. I'm moving on. Of course, I still answer inquiries via e-mail, but I hope there won't be a lot more stuff on websites. I've already said what needed to be said.

              It was really annoying. I'd get told to let go and then have to answer a page full of questions. There are still a lot of questions left over at the Juvenall site, but they all 1) have been answered, but the people who asked haven't noticed, 2) contain obvious logical fallacies or 3) can be answered be clicking twice to get to the qualifications page on my website.

              Carrillo's "unpology" was interesting. I've never before seen an apology that's entirely for someone else's actions. But she's good at putting words in others' mouths. It's also the first time I've seen her decline to use her (admittedly unearned) titles. I was kind of proud that she was moving slightly in the direction of humility. I think she's realized she could have learned a lot from me that she'll never know now.

              As for taking the site down, it'll never happen. You can't believe how much money is behind that program. But I have helped a lot of people, which makes all the annoying time I had to spend last week worth it. And I love the poem that came from the experience.

              Thanks for your concern. Hearing from someone who understands the difference between debate and flaming means more to me than hearing from half-a-dozen people who just don't get it.
              Blessings,
              P. Rex

              My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
              My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
              An ezine I co-founded: http://spiraltree.weebly.com

              Comment


              • #22
                Wow. You know, I have so many better things to do than post about Sacred Mists. And it always seems that, when I get the busiest, the Misters shove themselves back into my life.

                They were using an old endorsement of mine against FTC rules. So I asked them to take it down. Lilyth, a Sacred Mists representative, told me that they'd only do the legal thing and take the endorsement down if I struck a deal with them saying I wouldn't post any more about the Mists. Which just tells me that they have something to hide. So I went to the BBB with my complaint. Here's the response I got:

                _____________________________________

                On June 02, 2009, the business provided the following information:
                Contact Name and Title: Lorien Carrillo,President
                Contact Phone: 707-255-8005
                Contact Email: [email protected]
                To whom it may concern,
                The testimonial of our program that Mr. Hill wrote of his own accord and provided us with permission to use was removed from our website on 5/14/2009, which was the very date on which we received his first and only request to do so. This is something he is well aware of.
                His statement made within this claim of his being threatened by our council members is another far reaching, untrue and libelous statement. Mr. Hill's continuing libel and defamation is on record through various online websites, all of which are currently under review by our lawyer in Napa, CA. This current complaint will be forwarded to his law office, as well.
                To reiterate, Mr. Hill's testimonial is not on our website and was removed immediately upon my receipt of his request that he sent directly to one of my staff members, rather than the company itself, on May 14, 2009. This appears to be one day prior to his issuing this complaint through the BBB.
                I would like to state in closing that while Mr. Hill left our program due to a series of unfortunate disciplinary actions, we do wish him well and hope that can move forward without continuing his attempts to inflict harm on our business nor the persons who work within it.
                I want to thank you for your time and assistance with this matter and hope that this response is sufficient to close the complaint as resolved. We appreciate the opportunity to share our experience with this former student and our thoughts on the issue at hand.
                Should you require additional information at any time, please do not hesitate to contact us directly. We are more than happy to assist.
                Many kind regards,
                - Sacred Mists
                _________________________________________

                There is one obvious lie here (and who knows how many other hidden lies). If the endorsement was removed on the 14th of May, why did Lilyth try to strike a deal to silence me on the 15th? Yep - that's the date on Lilyth's letter; as I understand it, even the rich and powerful can't change space-time to suit their needs.

                So I'm here to let people know what's going on. You can't even register a legitimate complaint when these people use your words without permission (and in clear defiance of FTC regulations). Most people would just say, "Sorry we left your testimonial up. We'll remove it right away." But not vindictive Lorien Carrillo. She has to threaten to get the law involved even though it's clearly she and her organization who are acting immorally and illegally.

                And what is this disciplinary action she mentions? When I was at the Mists, there wasn't even a set of guidelines for behavior (although Lorien had appointed a secret coven member to keep a "bad behavior" file on me and others - I just never knew what was in it).

                So come on, Lorien. Send me a subpoena so we can have our day in court or stop the harassment and leave me alone. I will keep people informed of the unethical things you do as long as I'm able, but I'm tired of it. Let's get this over with and move on with our lives.
                Blessings,
                P. Rex

                My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
                My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
                An ezine I co-founded: http://spiraltree.weebly.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Scott Hill View Post
                  No worries, dude. I'm moving on.
                  surrrreeeee you are...I mean we can allll see that....all over the internet we can see you are moving on dude.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hello PaganWitch,

                    I appreciate your posts, despite the sarcasm. Are you sure you are posting of your own initiative? I myself noticed Ms. Carrillo's Manson-like charm when I was at the Mists. I would hate to think you are just doing her bidding without thinking about why. As neo-pagans, I think we need to turn to our guides and gods before we turn to people - especially if those people run organizations that perpetrate crimes and commit themselves to immorality.

                    You seem to think I have no right to discuss the crimes and campaigns of which I was victim. Why is that? Do you feel Sacred Mists is above the law?

                    I would really like to know why you feel the way you do. Please feel free to share. Don't worry - you haven't, and won't, hurt my feelings.
                    Blessings,
                    P. Rex

                    My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
                    My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
                    An ezine I co-founded: http://spiraltree.weebly.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      admin

                      Admin Mode

                      Enough drama. Save it for some other forum and give others a chance to provide input on the original topic.




                      Faith is easy -- until the moment you actually need it.

                      "Since when are facts subjective?" - Athena_Nadine

                      "Turning and turning in the widening gyre
                      The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
                      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
                      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                      The best lack all convictions, while the worst
                      Are full of passionate intensity."

                      – W.B. Yeats, "The Second Coming"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thank you to the Admin

                        I am new here and when I stumbling across this thread I was afraid Mystic Wycks was one of those places that allow what they call witch wars. I am happy to know that MW does not allow flaming particularly against those who can't defend themselves against accusions. Blessed be to all and I am sorry Scott had a bad experience but probably it is time to move forward. I hope it's ok that I said this I don't want to make anyone mad.
                        Last edited by Titania; June 7th, 2009, 11:57 AM.
                        Whene'er your lovely eyes you close,
                        The fairies all may seek repose,
                        And softly slumber night away,
                        Till you, awaking, bring them day.

                        So, if you're wearied with my lay,
                        Titania, put an end to day;
                        And, when you'd rather slumb'ring be,
                        Pray to go to bed and dream of me.

                        Allan, Peter John (1825-1848)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I've had my own issues with Scared Mists. I won't go into detail since that will probably just dig up memories I could do without. I will say though that because of that site I found my way here. So in that regard I'd actually have to thank Scared Mists for being a stumbling block.

                          I sincerely hope that others won't have the problems and find their way here on a much shorter path than I did.
                          What We have fought and bled for will never be lost to us.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I have no experience with Sacred Mists but I have read this thread and the corresponding thread at the Juvenall Wilson site with interest.

                            I wonder if those who are happy at Sacred Mists stay at Sacred Mists, and therefore are not found at other forums on a regular basis.

                            On the other hand, of those who have left Sacred Mists, we might assume that for one reason or another, Sacred Mists was not the right place for them.

                            My point being, while I agree that this is a valid discussion thread, I am not so sure that it can be unbiased because of the circumstances. Those who have left Sacred Mists certainly have the right to discuss why they did so, but if you take a group of people who have left Sacred Mists and put them on one side of the room and take another group of people who are currently attending Sacred Mists and put them on the other side of the room, and then ask them what they thought about their experience, percentage-wise you will get more negative answers from those people who are no longer with Sacred Mists and more positive answers from those who are still attending.

                            No school is perfect and no school is going to be right for everybody.

                            My suggestion is to take all opinions with a grain of salt and then do the research yourself before you make a decision. Trust yourself and your gut feelings. You won't go wrong

                            Blessed be to all,

                            SG
                            sigpic“There is no art in turning a goddess into a witch, a virgin into a whore, but the opposite operation, to give dignity to what has been scorned, to make the degraded desirable, that calls for art or for character.”

                            ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Exactly right, SG. We all have a responsibility to be involved, to think for ourselves, to ask questions, and to gather information from all sources, both positive and negative, in order to make our own determination. Each school or website has something to offer; but we need to ask questions, to decide for ourselves what is important to us and what is not important to us in order to find a place that works for us. Our experiences, whether good or bad, positive or negative, are in part determined by our choices.

                              As Wiccans, we believe that Goddess and God come to each of us in an individual way, and we believe that what is right for Sparkles is not necessarily right for SpiralGoddess. Thus, Sparkles can share her experiences with others, as can SpiralGoddess, but neither has the right to find issues with the choices of the other. Especially when it comes to spiritual matters.

                              *grin* Hope you don't mind my using you in my example, SG.
                              Last edited by Sparkles; June 10th, 2009, 09:55 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Exactly right SG!
                                Not every place is right for everyone. My advice is to check it out for yourself if you wish to, if you don't that's ok too.
                                My reasons for leaving was that mundane was not allowing me the time for my studies so why pay $20. a month when I couldn't get out of it the whole package. I didn't have time to visit the boards or attend study halls or rituals so I left until mundane life slows down. Now that things seem to be calming down I am thinking of signing back up at Sacred Mists at the end of this month, hopefully in time for Litha celebrations. Yay!
                                Reminds me I need to call Lady Raven about returning to my 2nd degree studies there.
                                And I think you are also right that many that attend Sacred Mists don't find themselves needing to go anywhere else for their studies so you won't see them all over the net attending other schools. But I do know of some that do take part in other schools/ discussion forums. There is just so much to see and do there that it does not leave a lot of time LOL
                                I've also heard it's grown quite a lot in the time I've been away and the new Historical Paganism Course they just started offering sounds right up my alley so I may check that out.
                                PW

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