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  • #16
    Originally posted by Xentor View Post
    For the same reason, Checkerists believe in reincarnation. And yes, we also believe in a "central hub" idea.
    Very Interesting! I read the dialogues and must say I found some interesting parallels with my beliefs. It seems to be a mix of Eastern religions and philosphies, and is more alog the line of Classic pantheism, while I am more a Natural pantheist.

    I wish I could find more on Checkerism, but the link in your sig seems to be all that here is right now! I do like the dialogues that basically say one cannot know the Will or Purpose of deity for that is outside human existance and understanding. I went the same way with my beliefs, trying to understand deity and coming to the conclusion that I couldnt until I was part of, thus I couldnt explain the reason FOR deity and thus removed it from my syllabus so to speak. Not that I dont believe in the wonder that is the Universe and All that is in It, it is, I believe, beyond my or anyones ability to comprehend what, if any reason, purpose, or plan deity would have, and thought it best to concentrate on my own humanity and growth instead. Why waste time contemplating what the deities plans and Will is when all I will ever come up with is abstractions and opinions based on limited observation? There are many arguements for this but in the end I just removed active deity from the Universe, since I saw no sign of it anyway!

    But I'd like to read more on Checkerism or at least have you tell me more about it! Its still very close and I myself am looking to combine and refine my belief for publication purposes. Its very logical in its observations and teaching and I love the Student/Teacher dialogues!
    Last edited by Rhisiart; September 20th, 2006, 07:32 PM.
    Be Well!
    Rhisiart y'Daheddog Draig


    ...THE EPIC BATTLE CONTINUES...


    Tesra's Magick Cauldron for ALL your Pagan Needs!! CLICK HERE!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kaylara View Post
      I guess I'm a polytheist pantheist. I believe that there are beings out there that we call gods and that they do have different personalities and influences. They are a part of the totality of deity, not the totality itself.

      As far as an afterlife, I do ascribe to at least part of the idea of the Summerlands. I think that we do get reincarnated, but I also think that we choose where we are reincarnated based upon our soul's need for experiences.
      Now Im not going to get too much into this right now, but isnt polytheist pantheist an impossibility? Polytheism is the belief in many gods while pantheism is the belief in one all incompassing god or deity. I kinda know where your coming from, the many form the One, still part of All, but still POLYTHEISM is the opposite of pantheism. Its just confusing given the definitions of both, do ya get what I mean? Please explain if you will! As a Natural Pantheist I am somewhat confused! lol
      Be Well!
      Rhisiart y'Daheddog Draig


      ...THE EPIC BATTLE CONTINUES...


      Tesra's Magick Cauldron for ALL your Pagan Needs!! CLICK HERE!

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      • #18
        I believe that God or the "Supreme Being" is in everything and therefore IS everything but at the same time I believe that it not only IS the universe but is a sort of spirit that is distinct from everything. That probably makes absolutely no sense.

        I believe in spirits as well, I believe that everything has it's own individual spirit/soul but at the same time is a part of and made up of that supreme force. I believe in revering nature and it's cycles because to me, that is God.

        Polytheism has always been hard for me to grasp because I keep finding in my life that everything connects back to a whole, a source, so while their may be individual spirits that are part of that whole and made up of that whole, I don't think there are individual, separate gods.

        My view of the soul is simply that it is whatever part of us that keeps us from being mere machines, that part of us not in our biology (or perhaps in our biology, I don't know, the brain is an interesting thing...) that keeps us alive and connects us to everything.
        Last edited by fafonen; September 20th, 2006, 07:59 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by fafonen View Post
          I believe that God or the "Supreme Being" is in everything and therefore IS everything but at the same time I believe that it not only IS the universe but is a sort of spirit that is distinct from everything. That probably makes absolutely no sense.
          Yes it does! That's called Panentheism (notice the extra "en"). It's a kind of pantheism, with deity being more than, or separate from, the universe.

          There's a thread about panentheism, one forum up.
          Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
          Contact me | The Dialogues on Checkerism

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Rhisiart View Post
            I wish I could find more on Checkerism, but the link in your sig seems to be all that here is right now!
            (...)
            But I'd like to read more on Checkerism or at least have you tell me more about it! Its still very close and I myself am looking to combine and refine my belief for publication purposes. Its very logical in its observations and teaching and I love the Student/Teacher dialogues!
            As far as I know, that site is the only one publishing this material. The dialogues are recent, but needing to be rewritten for a broader audience
            there's a couple of underlying essays at least 15 years old. Those used to be published on another part of that same site, but were taken down temporarily.
            Xentor, your friendly-neighbourhood Checkerist
            Contact me | The Dialogues on Checkerism

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            • #21
              Hey thanks, Xentor I had a feeling I might have been getting my -isms mixed up. Heh.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Protagonist View Post
                Just be careful that you don't confuse it with one-sided realism. That approach just leads to fatalism.
                Whurrr?
                Last edited by Birdy; September 21st, 2006, 09:17 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Protagonist View Post
                  Just be careful that you don't confuse it with one-sided realism. That approach just leads to fatalism.
                  Well first, isnt most peoples view of reality one sided? I say most though there are some who contimplate the possibilites and leave their beliefs open, though by having a belief in something tends to drag your view on reality one way or another. I might be wrong though...

                  As for Fatalism, I think its a lazy way to look at things. Your fate/destiny has already been laid out so why bother trying to change it...its one of those beliefs favored by people who believe Time Travel is possible but the events are fixed and cannot be changed because time is a continuous loop and whats happening or will happen has already happened and if you intervened somehow to change the future, THAT already happened so everything you do is fruitless and pointless so just sit back and accept your lot and fate...

                  See, lazy...I think its the main belief of EMO's! Gothic Fatalism...hmmmm....my new church, The Church of Gothic Fatalism! MINE, I CALLED IT!
                  Last edited by Rhisiart; September 29th, 2006, 07:28 PM.
                  Be Well!
                  Rhisiart y'Daheddog Draig


                  ...THE EPIC BATTLE CONTINUES...


                  Tesra's Magick Cauldron for ALL your Pagan Needs!! CLICK HERE!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rhisiart View Post
                    Now Im not going to get too much into this right now, but isnt polytheist pantheist an impossibility? Polytheism is the belief in many gods while pantheism is the belief in one all incompassing god or deity. I kinda know where your coming from, the many form the One, still part of All, but still POLYTHEISM is the opposite of pantheism. Its just confusing given the definitions of both, do ya get what I mean? Please explain if you will! As a Natural Pantheist I am somewhat confused! lol
                    Oh, no, I get what you're saying. My belief in the gods are rather tied up in my belief in how energy works, which is tied up in my belief in the nature of the universe. (Confusing enough yet?)

                    Basically, the divine is imminent, and within everything, just as energy is. I make a distinction between the ultimate divine and what we humans call divine. I think that when there is a need, and people are sending a lot of energy towards an idea, then a being will step in to fulfill that need. Perhaps it's just that it wants to get an easy meal, perhaps it feels it's a great job? Who knows except that god/dess? Anyways, so the more energy humans send it in terms of worship or attention, the more influence it has. And it will also change to assume the attributes we give it, in order to gain more energy and thus more influence. I think that we give these beings the title god because they are/become more powerful than us and have more influence than we do. And I believe in these god/dess/s/es. Again, not as the totality of the divine, they're as much a part of the divine as everything else.

                    Does that help?
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kaylara View Post
                      Oh, no, I get what you're saying. My belief in the gods are rather tied up in my belief in how energy works, which is tied up in my belief in the nature of the universe. (Confusing enough yet?)

                      Basically, the divine is imminent, and within everything, just as energy is. I make a distinction between the ultimate divine and what we humans call divine. I think that when there is a need, and people are sending a lot of energy towards an idea, then a being will step in to fulfill that need. Perhaps it's just that it wants to get an easy meal, perhaps it feels it's a great job? Who knows except that god/dess? Anyways, so the more energy humans send it in terms of worship or attention, the more influence it has. And it will also change to assume the attributes we give it, in order to gain more energy and thus more influence. I think that we give these beings the title god because they are/become more powerful than us and have more influence than we do. And I believe in these god/dess/s/es. Again, not as the totality of the divine, they're as much a part of the divine as everything else.

                      Does that help?
                      I believe I understand. Its like the embodiment for a need or concept. If enough people believed in a need for revenge then the energy would coalesce into an entity to take that mantle of directed energy and devotion. Thats kinda saying gods are created or destroyed by the whims of man.

                      Though I think the idea might be a new variation to pantheism, Im unsure if the addition of higher beings still makes it pantheistic. I would ask where are these beings prior to their slip into godhood? Are they previous dead spirits or maybe leftovers from the formation and seperation of energies when the Universe was formed? Higher dimensions or planes of existence? Im not knocking your beliefs in anyway, just wanting better clarification of its ties with pantheism as a whole. Am I making an sense? Its late and Im unsure if I am! lol Ok I'll try again later but very interesting Kaylara. Ive been reading and doin some research on all beliefs cuz mine is also related to pandeism as well! Seems they did alot of thinking back in the 1800's! makes my brain hurt sometimes...
                      Be Well!
                      Rhisiart y'Daheddog Draig


                      ...THE EPIC BATTLE CONTINUES...


                      Tesra's Magick Cauldron for ALL your Pagan Needs!! CLICK HERE!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I would say that it is a pantheistic type of belief but not strictly pantheism.

                        Not that I can say for certain, I have never heard of that before.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Rhisiart View Post
                          I believe I understand. Its like the embodiment for a need or concept. If enough people believed in a need for revenge then the energy would coalesce into an entity to take that mantle of directed energy and devotion. Thats kinda saying gods are created or destroyed by the whims of man.

                          Though I think the idea might be a new variation to pantheism, Im unsure if the addition of higher beings still makes it pantheistic. I would ask where are these beings prior to their slip into godhood? Are they previous dead spirits or maybe leftovers from the formation and seperation of energies when the Universe was formed? Higher dimensions or planes of existence? Im not knocking your beliefs in anyway, just wanting better clarification of its ties with pantheism as a whole. Am I making an sense? Its late and Im unsure if I am! lol Ok I'll try again later but very interesting Kaylara. Ive been reading and doin some research on all beliefs cuz mine is also related to pandeism as well! Seems they did alot of thinking back in the 1800's! makes my brain hurt sometimes...
                          Well, I think there are plenty of entities astral/etheric/etc. I think that certain entities like subsisting on the cast of energy of people and that some entities find a steady stream of energy and decide that they're going to conform to the attributes that are going in that stream of energy. Basically they choose to attach themselves to a persona, then conform to that persona in order to gain more energy from the people. I've noticed that when people start opening up to energy or psychic things, a lot of the time some entity will come over and try to make a meal out of them because the newbie doesn't know how to defend themselves. I don't know where any of these entities came from. I'm assuming that they were there already, or are shards of something else.
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                          • #28
                            I suppose I could be pantheist in terms of the approach that sees divinity in and about everything. Most polytheists like myself, tend to also view life from a pantheist angle. The difference is that pantheists do not need to see god or gods as literal personal entities, whereas polytheists by definition recognize various divine beings as self-existing and independent. Pantheism is slippery in that it also shares much with animism and also with non-theistic approaches such as occur in some yogas and schools of Buddhism.

                            I do see that this world is a living part of the divine and we are also parts of this, so the pantheistic approach holds a lot of merit to me. I just don't go as far as some in seeing a unity. I believe that beings and existence is neither totally separate nor totally united. We can speak of humanity and yet recognize each individual. Likewise, we can say the same about divinity, or even life.

                            I do feel that some people need pantheism to be more strictly defined, but I disagree while instead viewing it as something that was never meant to be taken strictly.
                            Her Spastic Silliness the Princess Mandarava,
                            Chocolate City Guild President (elected by voter fraud), in the Church of Eris

                            "Beware of cheap Occidental imitations!"

                            Tha mi ag ionnsachadh GĂ idhlig

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                            • #29
                              I have meet several Panthiests.

                              I like their Philosophies, but every single one of them that I have meet, they all did not have very good control over their Personal Emotional Energies.

                              Every single one of the Lost Control of their Tempers over Small Little Issues.

                              So I do not go anywhere near them.

                              KNR

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kaylara View Post
                                Now I know that many people in other paths also have a pantheistic view of the universe (Reclaiming Wicca being one of them.) And there are plenty of ways to interpret it, so I'm opening this up to everyone for a discussion. If you are pantheistic, what is your view on life, the universe, and everything?
                                Hi, Kaylara! Say, I hate to use a post from "way back when" to hijack this lovely and informative thread about pantheism, but I have a question for you.

                                This is one of several posts where I've seen you refer to Reclaiming as a Wiccan path. Now, identifying as Reclaiming myself, I've met lots and lots and lots of Reclaiming-identified witches, and of them all, only one feels the term "Wicca" applies to what they believe and practice (and no, it ain't me!). So I was just curious as to where your information comes from.

                                That's all. Don't mind me; just passing through.
                                If you're lucky you'll find something that reflects you,
                                helps you feel your life protects you,
                                cradles you and connects you to everything.
                                Dar Williams, "The Hudson"

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