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The Pope Warns Against Pantheism!

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  • The Pope Warns Against Pantheism!

    13. Nor must we forget the very significant fact that many people experience peace and tranquillity, renewal and reinvigoration, when they come into close contact with the beauty and harmony of nature. There exists a certain reciprocity: as we care for creation, we realize that God, through creation, cares for us. On the other hand, a correct understanding of the relationship between man and the environment will not end by absolutizing nature or by considering it more important than the human person. If the Church’s magisterium expresses grave misgivings about notions of the environment inspired by ecocentrism and biocentrism, it is because such notions eliminate the difference of identity and worth between the human person and other living things. In the name of a supposedly egalitarian vision of the “dignity” of all living creatures, such notions end up abolishing the distinctiveness and superior role of human beings. They also open the way to a new pantheism tinged with neo-paganism, which would see the source of man’s salvation in nature alone, understood in purely naturalistic terms. The Church, for her part, is concerned that the question be approached in a balanced way, with respect for the “grammar” which the Creator has inscribed in his handiwork by giving man the role of a steward and administrator with responsibility over creation, a role which man must certainly not abuse, but also one which he may not abdicate. In the same way, the opposite position, which would absolutize technology and human power, results in a grave assault not only on nature, but also on human dignity itself.
    Bit late with this observation as I don’t make a habit of listening to the Pope, I would probably have missed this altogether if it wasn’t for the barb aimed at Pantheism!

    Link: Pope's World Peace Day Message

    This Pope seems to want to make confrontation his papal legacy. Of course he won’t deign to respond to people of a pantheistic opinion, not even to the World Pantheist Movement for that matter, but that just discloses his lack of integrity as a spiritual leader. Have a quick pop and then run away and hide behind the trappings of pomp and circumstance.

    If God really has made man the steward of the planet then they’ve both done a poor job of it. First, man has quite clearly abjured any responsibility and, second, God has proved a woefully negligent employer; he should have sacked us generations ago!

    We’ve had centuries of the catholic approach to ecology and it’s got us to where we are today, not much of a complaint to lay at the feet of Pantheism?!

  • #2
    Originally posted by TygerTyger View Post
    Bit late with this observation as I don’t make a habit of listening to the Pope,
    does anyone listen to the Pope in the UK? lol

    On the other hand, a correct understanding of the relationship between man and the environment will not end by absolutizing nature or by considering it more important than the human person.

    I wasn't aware pantheism (or even biocentrism/eco-centrism etc whatever exactly they are with respect to his argument) was considering the environment more important than the human person?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by green aventurine View Post
      I wasn't aware pantheism (or even biocentrism/eco-centrism etc whatever exactly they are with respect to his argument) was considering the environment more important than the human person?
      You might have to make that assumption if you wanted to object to a belief that had little to make it objectionable?

      For me nature and humanity are of equal importance in terms of consideration.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TygerTyger View Post
        You might have to make that assumption if you wanted to object to a belief that had little to make it objectionable?

        For me nature and humanity are of equal importance in terms of consideration.
        my point exactly :uhhuhuh:

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        • #5
          Originally posted by green aventurine View Post
          my point exactly :uhhuhuh:
          Something's gone wrong, we got to a point of agreement in less than 20 posts! :hahugh:

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TygerTyger View Post
            Something's gone wrong, we got to a point of agreement in less than 20 posts! :hahugh:
            :hehehehe:

            Also with this here:

            They also open the way to a new pantheism tinged with neo-paganism, which would see the source of man’s salvation in nature alone, understood in purely naturalistic terms.


            Why does a pantheistic man (or woman) need salvation?Salvation from what?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by green aventurine View Post
              Why does a pantheistic man (or woman) need salvation?Salvation from what?
              If you don't believe in original sin, which I don't, then there's nothing to be saved from. If you don't need saving then how's the church going to fill you with the fear of damnation?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by green aventurine View Post
                :hehehehe:
                Why does a pantheistic man (or woman) need salvation?Salvation from what?
                Deep down, we all want salvation. You know that. We are all rebelling against the "norm" and/or have been tricked by the evil Satan and are deeply yearning for salvation through Christ.

                Or something like that...



                /Sarcasm

                Signature Photos From JKP.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TygerTyger View Post
                  If you don't believe in original sin, which I don't, then there's nothing to be saved from. If you don't need saving then how's the church going to fill you with the fear of damnation?
                  indeed :uhhuhuh:

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Isabel View Post
                    Deep down, we all want salvation. You know that. We are all rebelling against the "norm" and/or have been tricked by the evil Satan and are deeply yearning for salvation through Christ.

                    Or something like that...



                    /Sarcasm
                    lol

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                    • #11
                      That whole concept of "steward and administrator over nature" has always struck me very wrong. When humans have the ability to end drought conditions or stop a hurricane or a tornado in it's formation, then we'll have the ability to be stewards and administrators over nature. Until then, nature has the upper hand and it's vain and egotistical to think otherwise.

                      On the other hand, if we respect the power of nature and do our best not to soil our nests, then we are being good stewards and administrators of our own selves. What drew me to Paganism (Wicca specifically) in the first place was the notion of personal responsibility. Not only do we keep our own power instead of according praise or blame to some other being, but we don't pretend we have power over anyone or anything else but our own selves.
                      ____________
                      If you make a customer happy, he'll tell 3 other people.
                      If he's not happy, he'll tell 20 others.



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                      • #12
                        *shrug* Not surprising. He's the Pope, head of the Catholic Church, which rejects the belief of Pantheism. If he started advocating it, I'd be surprised
                        "If the stars should appear but one night every thousand years how man would marvel and stare." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

                        "Remember your spirituality" - Ganesha to a friend in a dream, 2008


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                        • #13
                          The heresy of Naturalism (Pantheism) is running rampant among the faithful.

                          It is the one heresy that is so palatable by the masses that it threatens the very foundation of Catholocism.

                          Because it poses such a threat, the Pope has addressed this issue to his faithful.

                          It's something he must do as the Central Authority of the Church.
                          "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
                          instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
                          which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."

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                          • #14
                            *shrug* Not surprising. He's the Pope, head of the Catholic Church, which rejects the belief of Pantheism. If he started advocating it, I'd be surprised
                            This. He's the POPE. Did you expect him to LIKE pantheism?

                            This Pope seems to want to make confrontation his papal legacy. Of course he won’t deign to respond to people of a pantheistic opinion, not even to the World Pantheist Movement for that matter, but that just discloses his lack of integrity as a spiritual leader.


                            Why does it show a lack of integrity as a spiritual leader? He's a busy man, and not a pantheist. I've never even heard of the World Pantheist Movement, and I'm a pagan. I'm sure he's got much better things to do. Like, you know, running a sovereign nation and the largest organized religious organization in the world.

                            I think a lot of the beefs people have with Benedict are a result of John Paul's oddness. He wasn't much of a theologian, much more of a grandpa and diplomat. Benedict is a theologian first and foremost. The Church needs both, but is not likely to often get it in the same person. Benedict is doing what the Church needs right now, I think - cleaning up decades of neglect when it comes to doctrine, dogma, and theology.
                            JFGI

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                            • #15
                              okee dokee...mental note...<do not pay attention to the pope>

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