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  • Greenwolf
    replied
    I think it's funny how judgemental people are about other faiths particularily in the pagan community. Although I have been taken to taks for being bigoted against Muslims I honestly don't care who or what you worship as long as you mind your business and are a decent person.

    Having said that I am moving along the lines of Christo-pagan (sort of, I haven't worked it all out yet) I have no issue at all with Satanists my cousin was a fraid to come out of the closet when I told him I was pagan, because he thought I might have issues with him over it. I told him it was all good as long as he's a decent person it doesn't matter who or what he believes in.

    When I was looking into Christo-paganism I had only come across really negative things from pagans and Christians alike. I could understand the hostility from Christians but pagans? I couldn't understand why? I still don't get what is supposed to be a "no one true way" professing people trying to say what is and isn't acceptable as a religion.

    Honestly!

    Kaheera, I'd offer you a good binding spell for that supervisor but he's already full of crap. Maybe he simply needs some extra bran and prune juice in his diet? Perhaps your hubby could suggest that the next time the jackass brays!

    GW

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  • Sekhmet Soul30
    replied
    Originally posted by Kraheera View Post
    I have never, and will never, denigrate satanists as a whole. My reason is simple. I have yet to run into one that was a bastard because of satanism.

    Now, I have been known to say things about Christians in general. My reasons being that their FAITH is often the reason that they do something. Such as the solicitors that show up on my doorstep at 830. in the morning.

    Or the folks that like to leave spam on my door. Or the supervisor that told my husband to divorce me because I'm pagan.

    I have yet to meet a Satanist that spews ignorance and intolerance based upon their beliefs however.
    Don't you hate that about these people that leave their shite on your door. I've got no problem with Satanists, their more religious then some people that I know. I also hate that their laughed at or mocked. As for that stupid supervisor, he doesn't run the show and he never will. Tell him to take a hike, girl.

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  • Kraheera
    replied
    I have never, and will never, denigrate satanists as a whole. My reason is simple. I have yet to run into one that was a bastard because of satanism.

    Now, I have been known to say things about Christians in general. My reasons being that their FAITH is often the reason that they do something. Such as the solicitors that show up on my doorstep at 830. in the morning.

    Or the folks that like to leave spam on my door. Or the supervisor that told my husband to divorce me because I'm pagan.

    I have yet to meet a Satanist that spews ignorance and intolerance based upon their beliefs however.

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  • Sekhmet Soul30
    replied
    Some witches got mad when I said that I used a Devil candle. Give me a break, I'll use what I want. I personally have no problem with Satanists. Their flashy, some of them, but they generally know what's going on in the world. Did you see the Satanist on 'The Secret Lives of Women." Now that girl knows what's going on and her car is sooo cool.

    My personal view: Leave the Satanists alone and move on with your own pathetic life.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lady Khaibit
    replied
    Originally posted by Darakash
    Hello! Nice of you to revive this thread....oh yeah, there is a lot of argument about what exactly it means to respect other paths. I think you would find some other threads here very interesting reads on this type of topic;
    In the "Paths" forum "Watering Down the Paths, the I respect Crime" is a perfect example, also another of my posts generated some interesting conversation of a similar nature.....In the Paths forum: "Core Beliefs of your path"

    So glad to see you posting so much after only being here a short time, and look forward to reading more from you.
    DK

    Yeah, I saw it and it reaaly grabbed me, I felt very compelled to speak out my opinion of this issue. Because it has become an issue. Far too many people of the Craft are turning their noses up at the way others practice and believe. Do they forget that not but 4 centuaries ago, "Witches" were hanged, burned, drowned, tortured, and executed for what they practice ( and many weren't, they were just victims in a mass hysteria caused by lack of education and ignorance! )... so why today in these modern times are some people of the path turning into the very essence of hatred and intolerance? It's becoming like a rampantly speading disease that is festering at the fabric of the Magickal communities.

    It baffles me that so many are becoming more or less no better than the fundamentalists who are striving to take away our religious and spiritual freedoms. Instead of bickering amoungst each other, we, the magickal communities should be uniting against this sort of intolerant behavior. It's an oxymoron for someone to say that they love and repect everyone, as they turn their noses up at different "Craft" practioners. How is that even relavent at this point? Doesn't that in turn just make them posers?

    What some people are failing to understand, is that even as we sit in our homes and refuse to accept the ways of others, there are people striving to make what WE all as a Magickal community disapear! So with that said, what side will you be on, the side that is striving to dismantle all that is Magick? Or the side that's going to be theree to keep ALL the Traditions, Paths and Sects alive? Me? I'm going fight this attitude head on!

    Ok, I got a little eccentric there for a moment, but this is truly how on this matter. That being said.... discuss.
    Last edited by Lady Khaibit; January 25th, 2005, 08:35 PM. Reason: I can't spell

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  • Darakash
    replied
    Originally posted by Lady Khaibit
    but I guess some people will never learn the true meanuing of respect for other paths.
    Hello! Nice of you to revive this thread....oh yeah, there is a lot of argument about what exactly it means to respect other paths. I think you would find some other threads here very interesting reads on this type of topic;
    In the "Paths" forum "Watering Down the Paths, the I respect Crime" is a perfect example, also another of my posts generated some interesting conversation of a similar nature.....In the Paths forum: "Core Beliefs of your path"

    So glad to see you posting so much after only being here a short time, and look forward to reading more from you.
    DK

    Leave a comment:


  • Lady Khaibit
    replied
    Originally posted by KEishin
    Well think about it - so many people new to Paganism come from religions that preach "the one true way" (snort, chuckle, laugh, whatever). It's hard to overcome that conditioning. I'm *not* making excuses for that type of behavior - discrimination is discrimination.

    In addition, Satanism is so misunderstood my many of us, that we only have what the media reports about it. When was the last time the media in your area got Witchcraft/Wicca right?


    Yeah, I'll have to agree with you on this. I'm a pagan myself, but I feel it is wrong to bvelittle or thrash someone based on a one-sided view point. Many pagans and Wiccans alike would be infuriated if someone bashed their ways... so why stoop to that sophmoric level? Who knows... it is somewhat pathetic that so many have judged before they have educated themselves on the very topic that they are bashing. It's disturbing to me, but I guess some people will never learn the true meanuing of respect for other paths.

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  • Nacken
    replied
    Hmm ...Im surprised that middle aged white guys aren't blamed for discriminating against satanists. That way, you can slam one with the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Loopaleigh
    replied
    Darakash- I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say in my post about "the individual who doesn't hold with majority opinion" as "acceptable target". I generaly don't jump into threads like that and rant, but the title of this one got me thinking about how sometimes people who don't think like everybody else becomes an acceptable target for other people to take their frustrations and inner anger out on. I was really just using Satanism as an example, but it can be applyed to just about anyone and any place.

    I have been guilty of this behavior myself and it wasn't until one time the "target" pulled me aside and informed me that this was really, really hurting her emotionaly that I got to thinking about why was I even picking on her in the first place? Oh, cause everybody else was. That's kind lame. I started looking at the "reasons" why I was picking on her and came up with "she was short" and "she walked funny", but the real reason is everybody else was doing it and it seemed funny at the time, but no one was really thinking about whether or not it might be hurting her. I realized I was a "bully" and I didn't like it. I also realized other people were making my emotional decissions for me, and I didn't like that either. Anyway, personal story.


    And I in NO WAY was implying that YOU do this! That's why I added the P.S. at the end so you wouldn't feel it was directed at you! 'Cause it wasn't! I was just throwing it out there in general.


    Originally posted by Darakash
    I am a person that thinks that by using the name Satanist, these groups have created more problems for themselves than using the name may be worth, but hey, know what? That realy IS an opinion!
    I agree, LaVey could have called it LaVeyinism or something and reaced alot more people. It's not the entire message or philosopy of Satanism that is the problem, it's the knee jerk reaction to the name. Like I said before, some of it makes sense to me and is quite applicable to daily life, some of it I find too self centered and not balanced enough, but alot of people won't even check it out at all 'cause they can't get past the connotations of the name. I avoided learning about it for a long time because when I was young alot of people were calling themselves Satanist for shock value and knew absolutly NOTHING about it's worldview. It was the 80's and Heavy Metal was popular. :kooky:


    Originally posted by Aquarian Moon
    "Notice: Anything stated in one of my posts is not necessarily an opinion of mine by 100%. I could be sleepy, I could be un-educated enough in the topic and hand, perhaps tired, hungry, frustrated, sad, or even suffering from a severe migrane from my kitten jumping on top of my head.

    This does not mean to say that my opinions are uninformed, but simply in the endless process of being modified and further developed. To help accomplish this, I would ask that any responses to this 'here post refrain from commiting any personal attacks producing feelings of guilt, shame, or embarassment, because this will undoubtedbly hinder the continued improvement of my stated opinion, which is currently nothing more than a W.I.P. Thank you."
    This is awesome! he he he. Kitty.

    Leave a comment:


  • SIthErAc
    replied
    i have no real path my beliefs are my own ive made my mind up about how i see everything and that also changes from time to time. now as for people slamming other religions i believe its out of fear and stupididty like most predjudice it stems from a lack of understanding, these people dont udnerstand so they throw mud at something they think may undermine what they believe in which isnt cool but its how humans are. until others understand that everyones beliefs are going to be different there will be no peace between people with different beliefs. just my point of view here not stating any of this as a concrete fact because i dont really understand why people are like this but just know that this is the way it is.

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  • Alkhemia
    replied
    I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

    In all honesty, and based upon my own personal experience, I do not believe for one minute that Right Hand Path magicians/witches/pagans are any less prone to "negative ways," selfish behavior or practicing an unbalanced system. I have met many folks who get all excited about "healing the world" and "teaching newbies" while their own lives are a complete mess. I've had the same gripe with the Ceremonial Magick community; I have met far too many people who 'claim' to talk with deities, do magick to spread world peace, etc....but many of them can't muster up the magick to pay their bills consistently, lead productive lives, have healthy relationships - I find it hard to believe that such people are as magickally important as they wish themselves to be.

    Perhaps it's the cynic in me, but I think a lot of folks try to 'escape' into seemingly altruistic endeavors (or pretend to be "selfless") for very selfish reasons; karmic 'brownie points,' a sense of importance because they feel disempowered in their mundane lives, trying to avoid "real life" concerns, etc. In fact, many RHP activities could be considered very self-centered - having little or no beneficial effect upon local communities or the world at large while primarily having very subjective benefits upon the individual adherent. I'm not saying this is a "bad" thing, I think that "selfishness" can (and does) serve people well, I just think it's important to be honest about it. As in all things, "balance" is the key.

    However, just because some angsty teenager or maladjusted adult picks up The Satanic Bible, starts calling himself/herself a "Satanist/Setian/etc." and claims to wish nothing but woe upon the rest of the world - it doesn't necessarily mean he/she really knows what they are talking about or what the LHP is. It means that they are a poseur - not very different from people who read one book on Wicca and claim to be a High Priest(ess). Many Setians and Satanists I know actually do utilize RHP philosophies, they do care about the world around them and they practice within an extremely balanced system. A "system," one could argue, that is far more "balanced" than the "heal the earth, an' it harm none, we all come from the Goddess" Pagans out there.

    Alkhemia

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  • SacredWithin
    replied
    Originally posted by KEishin
    Well think about it - so many people new to Paganism come from religions that preach "the one true way" (snort, chuckle, laugh, whatever). It's hard to overcome that conditioning. I'm *not* making excuses for that type of behavior - discrimination is discrimination.

    In addition, Satanism is so misunderstood my many of us, that we only have what the media reports about it. When was the last time the media in your area got Witchcraft/Wicca right?
    This is entirely true. And it also sometimes seem that Pagans are even afraid of Satanists!

    Leave a comment:


  • AdNoctum
    replied
    Originally posted by Zophael
    I have to agree with Loopaleigh. I was a Satanist for quite some time. LaVey was overly reactionary because of his poor experience with Christianity. The Setians (Temple of Set) arose in response to LaVey's emotionally based views. Both groups fail to be deep enough to acknowledge how selflessness can be as rewarding if not more so than constantly satisfying our ids.
    That's part of why I'm not LaVeyan, and not Setian. I realize that there are times when selflessness is necessary, and even though I grew up in a rather conservative (though not fundamentalist) Christian church, I do not harbor any ill will to Christians, or Christianity as a whole.

    In my opinion, LaVey laid down the basic idea of Satanism. It's up to the individual Satanist to take that idea and mold it to fit themselves.

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  • Aquarian_Moon
    replied
    Yes, I don't see the second one as an opinion at all. It's more like a *cough up - something stated over and over again by many different people, with no facts, and no foundations.

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  • Darakash
    replied
    Originally posted by Aquarian_Moon
    So very true. I sometimes forget to post a disclaimer with my opinions (and I'm talking about anything for discussion here on MW), and once I got a seemingly personal attack coming from *someone.

    The trouble with opinions, is that they almost ALWAYS change over time, especially when it's 5:00 a.m in the morning, and you haven't slept for the last 24 hours. I find that most MW'ers do recognize people's opinions, and respond as such, but there are a few who don't, and this is very aggravating.

    If I had to write a disclaimer below every post I make, it would probably go something as follows:

    ---

    "Notice: Anything stated in one of my posts is not necessarily an opinion of mine by 100%. I could be sleepy, I could be un-educated enough in the topic and hand, perhaps tired, hungry, frustrated, sad, or even suffering from a severe migrane from my kitten jumping on top of my head.

    This does not mean to say that my opinions are uninformed, but simply in the endless process of being modified and further developed. To help accomplish this, I would ask that any responses to this 'here post refrain from commiting any personal attacks producing feelings of guilt, shame, or embarassment, because this will undoubtedbly hinder the continued improvement of my stated opinion, which is currently nothing more than a W.I.P. Thank you."
    I agree with both of you and do not feel that opinions should be dissected or used to attack people; nor do I think that a disclaimer is necessary, but yours is excellent by the way :vanish:

    However, there is a big difference to me between: "I think that the worship of "self" prevelant in most Satanist paths is innapropriate and therefore, I do not agree with their views" AND "Satanists are evil; they worship evil and they only follow their religion for shock value" as far as opinions go....don't you? I guess I see one as an obvious statement of opinion and a personal view, and the other at a declaration (and very disrespectul) and therefore, subject to dissection and the request by a respondent for the person to support such claims....make sense?
    DK

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