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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sage Rainsong View Post
    Okay so I have been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money, to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?
    ** The Craft as in the training and teachings is not for sale however occult information some people have no problem selling it others do. I for one cannot get behind doing tarot readings for personal gain. I do not have a problem doing it to raise money for causes as long as I personally do not gain anything from it. That however is a personal thing. I have many friends who have never had anything ill come from reading tarot for a little bit of cash.

    As for selling the Craft itself ie selling the teaching and training... I do think that is inherently wrong. I do not believe that engenders protection or respect for it. I believe selling the training and teaching actually cheapens the learning and it makes people believe they are entitled to something.

    ** Li Ferelwing **

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sage Rainsong View Post
      Interesting. I have also heard the other side of the argument (just to play devils' advocate). For example my Reiki teacher got her certification at a time when become a master meant that you had to pay A LOT of money. She said that this was done so that they knew that the student was serious and dedicated. I'm sure that they liked the money to lol. Even though they could be scamming her, it does raise an interesting point. The amount of money places a certain value on things. Many people may wonder if something is wrong with your service, if you are not charging a decent amount of money. Also some people may try to take advantage of you. I used to try to read the tarot for free years ago. Let me tell you, since it was free some people absolutely needed a free reading almost every day or their lives would be in utter turmoil. Enough of my rambling. My question is to you, do you think that maybe charging could foster a certain level of respect in many cases? After all the people who paid could have done something else with their disposable income. Also I would like to ask about your views on things like charging money for tarot readings and other methods of "selling the craft".

      ** In my opinion people often expect something if they pay for it. No matter how many Reiki attunements someone pays for there are many who never get those attunements because they were not ready for them. They cannot however get that money back. From what I understand the first "charge" group in Reiki were considered to be against the Reiki Tradition as a whole. I know that I recieved my 1st and 2nd attunement for free.

      ** Li Ferelwing **

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Windsmith View Post
        OK, before I respond, I should confess that I'm a Socialist at heart (though I'm well aware that it won't work on a large scale), and if I could find a way to completely eliminate those pieces of green paper, I would. Onward...

        I see your point, Sage, and if one is trying to make a living off of, say, divination or selling ritual tools, then of course you will need to set prices as you deem appropriate. It's just my own opinion that the respect that would be fostered by charging for "the craft" would be of a kind that I, personally, would reject: if someone thinks my reading is "better" because it's $30 than it was at $5, then that person seems likely to be a status seeker, rather than a spiritual seeker, and therefore not someone whose respect I'm interested in.

        In your example about your Reiki teacher, I disagree that having to pay a lot of money doesn't automatically mean you're serious and dedicated. It just means you're rich enough to pay. I am much more serious about and dedicated to my current studies than I was to my undergraduate studies, and they cost easily 4 times as much as what I'm taking now, simply because what I'm doing now matters more to me.

        For me, money makes things too easy, especially when talking about matters spiritual. If we say, "This Tarot reading costs $30," or, "Your pledge to the church this year should be $500," or, "A $1000 indulgence buys your loved ones out of Purgatory," then we reduce spirituality and religion to just another consumable, rather than the avenue for self-reflection that it can be. Why examine the patterns of the past to help predict the future? Why volunteer to help build the church's new addition one Saturday a month? Why examine what you consider to be a just and moral life, and then live it? We can just write a check and gain spiritual fulfillment as easily as we would a new pair of shoes. If money does need to be involved, I prefer the kind of sliding scale where the seller says, "I'm going to do the best for you that I can, and you'll pay me what you feel it's worth." Admittedly, some take advantage of this and underpay all the time, because they can, but for many it becomes a rare and refreshing challenge to examine the exchange and really think about how intangible value translates into dollar value.

        In the end, people do what serves them best. I have no objections to people selling their craft, but I'm unlikely to buy.

        ** I have to agree with you on this. The amount of money put into it does not really denote the actual worth. I do not believe that training for the Craft should come with a price-tag. Now I don't mind some materials being helped with better yet have the people provide their own... I think charging for things often cheapens the overall meaning. People expect things when money is exchanged and something those things cannot be delivered no matter what price is attached.

        This is of course my opinion.

        ** Li Ferelwing **

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        • #34
          i believe in two principle i follow:

          sell crafts, do not sell the spellcraft

          i belive that selling magick cheapens magick, as does speaking of a spell you've cast weakens it... so selling it cheapens and weakens it

          i don't see tarot as spellcraft though, it's divination, mediumship, people who aren't witches can perform it to a great degree... sell it... but spells? no.

          and, naturally, if you make it by hand, sell the thing!


          Originally posted by Sage Rainsong View Post
          Okay so I have been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money, to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?

          Comment


          • #35
            people who are not witches can also do spellcraft too though...

            Comment


            • #36
              I haven't looked at this thread for quite some time but I see an interesting issue has emerged.

              To charge or not to charge for teaching spellcraft stuff?

              This is just my personal opinion, but I firmly believe that the practicioner who is teaching should charge for lessons. I once asked a practicioner I was taking lessons from, about this a long time ago.

              The answer I got was, by all means, charge for lessons, but do it at a rate that is affordable for the majority of people out there.

              I asked... if there was something out there that could really change a person's life, why not spread the information for free?


              Now, the thing about people is that, most people only treasure what they have if they have to fight hard to attain it... in other words... if it COSTS them something to get it. Otherwise, it would become either lower in worth or even worthless to them, in their own eyes.

              At first I didn't really believe this, but time has taught me otherwise. My first teacher (the one whom I had posed this question to) had many students. Some of them paid in full and others did not. She was a very nice person and worked out some kind of installment scheme for those who had financial difficulties. However, a lot of people took the lessons and never paid a cent. She also never bothered to chase them for the cash because, well, she believed that what goes around comes around and that what was due to her will someday find its way to her.

              I recently got together with some of the students to find out how things were going. Not surprisingly, those who did not pay a cent were no longer practicing what they had learnt from her. In their eyes, they were dissatisfied with what they had learnt because they felt that they didn't get what they desired from it. Truth is, many of them did not bother to practice what they were taught, committing it to memory. It was just "too much trouble" for something they paid next to nothing for. And basically they were out again looking for another teacher or practicioner or guru to help them solve their problems, some of them ended up paying truly ridiculous amounts to the other gurus who sometimes come to my country.

              However, the few of us who paid up in full, also felt the pinch of it. I mean, if I am gonna invest some of my hard earned cash to learn something, I am going to make sure I truly understand what I am taught and get the most out of it. So I practiced and did my work regularly. It was an uphill struggle and things were tough, but in the end, I got what I was looking for.

              I am one of the few of her original students who is still a practicioner and I still correspond with her.

              I've been to business seminars and talks and compared to what the speakers at those events are asking for, a few hundred bucks for a few lessons that will change one's life really isn't asking for too much. Think about it, my teacher had to prepare her notes (which consisted of quite a stack) , the materials and other stuff, which do cost something to print and prepare. Also, she had to take time off to teach, time which she could have used to do other work.

              The cash paid is not merely compensation for the effort and materials, its also a symbol of my own commitment to the path. Its to put my money/resources where my mouth is... I made an agreement to stay focused... Well, now that I have invested, I damn well have to stay on track till the end. It makes perfect sense this way.

              It's like an apprenticeship, the apprentice pays the master to teach him or does things/labour in payment for the knowledge gained. There is nothing unnatural or unprecendented about this.
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