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Born in April, But I'm Really A Pisces.

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  • Born in April, But I'm Really A Pisces.

    Anyone an Ophiuchus?

    Other articles:
    http://www.griffithobs.org/IPSRealConst.html
    http://www.griffithobs.org/IPSrealre...ellations.html
    http://www.jas.org.jo/zodiac.html
    “Years and years of history books have taught us that America was shaped by the great deeds of great men and women. It was not. America was shaped by the great deeds of ordinary men and women. America always has been better than its government, that its people have always been more decent than their presidents, and that the strength and greatness of this nation lies in them, the men and women who are not great and who never will be.” - Roger Simon

    "People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." -- George Bernard Shaw



  • #2
    Yes, astronomers don't like astrologers. Unfortunately, they usually trudge out the same invalid arguments to try to "disprove" astrology.

    Zodiac signs, and the constellations (some of which bear the same name) are two entirely different things. It's a bit embarrassing that astronomers who run observatories don't understand that!
    Last edited by Fluffmeister; February 19th, 2006, 03:36 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Fluffmeister
      Yes, astronomers don't like astrologers. Unfortunately, they usually trudge out the same invalid arguments to try to "disprove" astrology.

      Zodiac signs, and the constellations (some of which bear the same name) are two entirely different things. It's a bit embarrassing that astronomers who run observatories don't understand that!
      I think it's fair to point out that things have changed astronomically since the stars were used to determine human events. Sould not astrologers be concerned about telling people they were born in one sign if indeed they were born in another?

      In the efforts of fairness, there are astrologers that base their sun signs according to the actual positions of the constellations:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_astrology
      “Years and years of history books have taught us that America was shaped by the great deeds of great men and women. It was not. America was shaped by the great deeds of ordinary men and women. America always has been better than its government, that its people have always been more decent than their presidents, and that the strength and greatness of this nation lies in them, the men and women who are not great and who never will be.” - Roger Simon

      "People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them." -- George Bernard Shaw


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      • #4
        So according to that I'm actually a Gemini? *confused* Being born on the 4th of July and all... aaah, way to confusing. Although I do feel like a mix between Gemini and a moon maiden...
        Previously known as Njorun Alma


        "A mind of the calibre of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows." - George Bernard Shaw

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        • #5
          Yea, sideral astrology, that factors in percussion of the zodiac. But the qualities of the sign adjust, too, so a Taurus born on May 3000 years ago is still a Taurus although technically an Aries under sideral.

          Look at the span for winter signs, such as Sagittarius, huge because you're taking short days/long nights into acount.

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          • #6
            WOW!! Then I'm a Virgo

            This is fascinating! Thanks!
            Warmest regards,
            Tamela
            "Were it not for hope the heart would break." --Scottish proverb

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Njorun Alma
              So according to that I'm actually a Gemini? *confused* Being born on the 4th of July and all... aaah, way to confusing. Although I do feel like a mix between Gemini and a moon maiden...
              No, you're still a Cancer by western astrology. You can continue to read that part of your horoscope :D By other forms astrology (and there are many) it would be different, because some track the actual locations of the stars and some track segments of the sky.

              You may find this thread helpful.
              Astrology Forum Guide- Do you know YOUR planets?
              Certified Astrologer - AMAFA - through the American Federation of Astrologers

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              • #8
                Originally posted by AmericanMe
                I think it's fair to point out that things have changed astronomically since the stars were used to determine human events. Sould not astrologers be concerned about telling people they were born in one sign if indeed they were born in another?
                No, because signs and constellations are two different things. Even NASA refer to the Vernal Equinox point as "The Aries Point", even though it's almost in the constellation of Aquarius - and they can land probes on other planets. Curiously, the same astronomers that like to tell astrologers we're "wrong" for not using constellations don't tell NASA they're "wrong" for calling the Vernal Equinox point "the Aries point". NASA and astrologers speak the same language; astrologers even use NASA's ephemeris to calculate where the planets are!

                In the efforts of fairness, there are astrologers that base their sun signs according to the actual positions of the constellations:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_astrology
                Western astrologers base our zodiac on the relationship between the Sun and Earth. The constellations are pretty irrelevant to Western astrology.

                Vedic astrology (which is actually far wider used world-wide since it's the only system in use in India, a country with a population of over a billion people and with a *lot* of astrologers) uses the sidereal zodiac. This has the advantage that signs and constellations are mapped a little more closely - but even so, it's not exact. Signs - regardless of whether you use Western or Vedic astrology - are *exactly* thirty degrees. Constellations are sprawly things, that don't occupy exactly thirty degrees. Vedic signs roughly correspond to the constellations that can be seen behind them, but not exactly. Tropical (Western) signs don't correspond at all to the constellations that can be seen behind them.

                It would have made life much, much easier if we gave the twelve signs of the zodiac different names to the constellations that lie on the ecliptic. It's been a source of confusion to non-astronomers and non-astrologers for a long time. It's an understandable confusion among the population in general; it's very disingenuous on the part of *astronomers* who like to throw this particular non-issue at astrologers; they really ought to know better.

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                • #9
                  O Bibidi Bobbidi Boo to you, AmericanMe! I think you are displaying a distinct lack of fun and imagination; while claiming that you are AmericanMe? Have you nothing better to do than roam the web bullying wicked idealists with the weapon of "hard" science? In front of an international audience? How wise and mature and superior is that? How old are you?

                  I promise I won't cast your horoscope and force you to pay me a fortune to interpret it for you.You're a Capricorn right? With Scorpio Rising and Pluto on your Midheaven; Venus disconjunct Moon conjunct Saturn - right? Pretty psychic hmmmmmm.

                  RedRose

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RedRose
                    O Bibidi Bobbidi Boo to you, AmericanMe! I think you are displaying a distinct lack of fun and imagination; while claiming that you are AmericanMe? Have you nothing better to do than roam the web bullying wicked idealists with the weapon of "hard" science? In front of an international audience? How wise and mature and superior is that? How old are you?

                    I promise I won't cast your horoscope and force you to pay me a fortune to interpret it for you.You're a Capricorn right? With Scorpio Rising and Pluto on your Midheaven; Venus disconjunct Moon conjunct Saturn - right? Pretty psychic hmmmmmm.

                    RedRose
                    :

                    AmericanMe is totally an Aries. he may aswell have a flashing neon sign about his head that says "ARIES"

                    I'm a Taurus.. that article says i'm an Aries.
                    i'd probably be happy enough with either :hahugh:
                    Last edited by instinct; February 22nd, 2006, 08:08 AM.
                    · · ·
                    ~
                    gemytyinepu ~
                    · · ·




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                    • #11
                      Aries! Wow! That is soooo amazing! You are so accurate. Aries! Yeah. Obvious, why didn't I get that?

                      RedRose

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                      • #12
                        Frankly, astrology does break down logically in all sorts of ways; like the House Systems are wacky, and the fact is. the Sun does not go around the Earth. And what about all these new planets and asteroids, not to mention the Arabic Parts which are really very very strange.

                        I have no idea why astrology works. No one is more surprised that I am how accurate it is. Beyond that it is good fun and an ancient art.

                        RedRose
                        Last edited by RedRose; February 22nd, 2006, 08:40 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RedRose
                          Aries! Wow! That is soooo amazing! You are so accurate. Aries! Yeah. Obvious, why didn't I get that?

                          RedRose
                          Because you forgot to click on his name and look at his profile where it gives his birthday, RedRose

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RedRose
                            Frankly, astrology does break down logically in all sorts of ways; like the House Systems are wacky, and the fact is. the Sun does not go around the Earth. And what about all these new planets and asteroids, not to mention the Arabic Parts which are really very very strange.
                            RedRose
                            It's all consistent from *our* perspective, though. The Sun doesn't go round the earth - but it still makes sense to use a geocentric perspective when doing astrology, because we're interested in where the planets are in relation to us. And we live on planet Earth.

                            The confusion arises because the stars just happened to be a useful backdrop to help locate signs 3,000 years ago in Babylonia. The signs are the relationship between the Earth and the Sun; they're segments of sky. 3,000 years ago you could locate the segment of sky called "Taurus" by looking for the set of stars that looked a bit like a bull, and that roughly corresponded to the sign (segment of sky) we call Taurus.

                            A useful comparison might be this. Imagine you and I live in a featureless desert, and you live a couple of miles away from me. I have a compass, and a map, and I can see from the map that your house is due north from mine. Now, "magnetic north" drifts year by year by a few minutes, so magnetic north and true north aren't quite the same. If I try to get to your house by following my compass, I'll miss it. If I try it next year, I'll miss it by even more. It doesn't stop your house being due north of mine, and the drift of magnetic north is no more significant than the precession of the equinoxes. It simply means the handy little backdrop star guide that worked 3,000 years ago doesn't work today. Claiming that the stars are what defines signs rather than the relationship between the Sun and earth is akin to me saying that magnetic north is the "real" one, and therefore your house must be physically moving year on year - even though you claim the foundations are solid!

                            I always thought Arabic parts were strange, too, but I can see what they're about now. Take something like the Part of Spirit. You take the two luminaries - Sun and Moon - and notice the distance between them. Then you simply project that onto the Ascendant. So what does this *mean*? Well, we're looking at the relationship between the God and Goddess, and by projecting it onto the Ascendant we're bringing the flavour of that relationship into our own lives. Projecting onto the Ascendant makes it personal to us - and most Arabic parts work like this. We're taking the "god-nature" of two planets or points and making them personal. It's not only modern astrologers who consider astrology a spiritual tool!

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                            • #15
                              Great stuff, Fluffmeister, thanks.

                              RedRose

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