Generations - Pluto's dance

[the monk]

Hmmmm, monk my ass. Vestal virgin? Maybe.

Vesta on the Ascendant; a life consecrated to Vesta. Dear Knight, if you have not yet handed over your life to the Goddess in service, then zzzzzzzzzzzzz. End of story.

Scorpio Rising with Pluto as Ruler in Leo (barely) on Midheaven. Sudden fame. A Plutonic sort of person, a transition teacher, bridging between the Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Virgo folk, bringing in Aquarian/Pisces energy.

Scorio Rising means private, but there are ways to get famous and remain a bit cloaked (like using stupid screennames, like "MonK"). Mercury on midheaven; writer. Mercury in Virgo; researcher. Moon in Virgo; LOVES research. In 10th House, you will gain audience.

So many astrologers have Virgo Moons. Mustn't get stuck in your head though!

Heart awakening, or else. That is what I see in your chart. And with Chiron in Aquarius you are weird too. Your neighbors don't understand you? Or are you the ultimate urban hermit?

With a chart like yours (insert twilight zone music here) , life will do you, more than you do life.

RedRose

Thank you RedRose, for your analysis, it is pretty much spot on. I am obviously not the only soul to have my chart as it spun around the world, others will be more advanced yet others may be open to mistakes, where i sit i really am not sure, not expecting or wanting sympathy, all i can say is my chart only works by not reacting to other peoples karma issues, yet having a few issues myself, this only works if i accept loss and see all from everyone else's perspective, whether that is right or wrong. It is a deep karma chart, gifts are only given by suffering, then reacting in the right way. Uranus on the I.C. a few years back electrified my consciousness, but also started to fuse the discs in my backbone big time!(Saturn in first house, Leo Sun sign) Ha Ha, dont expect something for nothing, i try very very hard in developing my heart chakra, yet probably i am at risk in this life of not being able to fulfill karma expectations, yet dont write me off, i have too much scorpion in me, Ha Ha! I am harmless, just a scribe, yet i have found others with this chart who are very very powerful, over all of us. I am content to be the toothless dog who announces arrivals, which is the essense of the dog star Sirius, which i also have a connection with.
The message is, do not take what i write as being true, but do your homework, so that you are sure that it isnt true.....there is the fool and the seerer in my chart, if i ever see clearly, will only happen if i overcome deep karma considerations.... the wild card at a tennis tournament....On a lighter note, if only i could get my hands around the throat of the bit of me that signed my contract....Ha Ha, just joking!

[RedRose]

Write you off? Where would you like to go in my writing? Hawaii, Paris?

You seem a perfectly marvelous person and the research you do is fascinating and needful, and you hang out with a bunch of sweetheart earthy Pagans. When you put the cursor over those green lights under your screenname, it says you are too nice. I like people who are too nice, myself.

As to whether you are fulfilling your destiny? I look forward to tracking your Chiron Return. You haven't gotten famous yet, right? That is still to come, correct?

RedRose

[the monk]

Write you off? Where would you like to go in my writing? Hawaii, Paris?

You seem a perfectly marvelous person and the research you do is fascinating and needful, and you hang out with a bunch of sweetheart earthy Pagans. When you put the cursor over those green lights under your screenname, it says you are too nice. I like people who are too nice, myself.

As to whether you are fulfilling your destiny? I look forward to tracking your Chiron Return. You haven't gotten famous yet, right? That is still to come, correct?

RedRose

Hi RedRose,
No i am not famous, nor do i look for fame, so it would be a strange set of circumstances, if that happened.
As i said i am only a scribe trying to decipher the cyclic myths, and their meaning for us in the 21st Century....let me explain more!
Up to a few years back, scientists were taping an old Irish "story teller", who had been chosen while still a child for his incredible memory, yet he couldnt read or write.
He was the last in a unbroken line going back into the mists of time.....There still are a few "story tellers" in small out of the way villages in Turkey, that seem divorced from the modern world, we would better understand them as minstrels that sing songs of great events that took place many thousands of years ago. I believe it is from them we get the great astrology myths, that eventually were written down.
To many that are new to astrology, the ancient myths and legends may seem child like in nature, many refer to an ancient event that has been embellished adding amusing but perhaps untrue details, as with parables in the Bible, they are a simple story designed to teach a moral lesson that help us understand the great astrology cyclic patterns.
We can safely say that the ancients were highly symbolic due to their better understanding of the right hemisphere of the brain.
Homer was a blind minstrel earning his living probably on the ancient coast of Turkey, in effect teaching history by song to all those who couldnt read or write........Most of the moving saga of Helen, the ancient Greeks, and the Trojans is "true", although probably the Trojan horse is an embellishment....which is sad for the Greeks, as they have been stuck with the English cliche "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts".
I feel a connection within my self to the story tellers and minstrels as i try to decipher the ancient true meaning behind the message......that is my focus, but not for personal gain or fame, im wary of those entrapments. For my self i wait for Neptune, as it nears my I.C. in a few years time....at least i will be able to bark at the Moon by then, with Neptune opposite Pluto frying my brains Ha Ha!

[RedRose]

Now Monk, I never said you were coveting fame. I am simply observing that you have Pluto - in Leo yet - on your Midheaven. Mercury is in Virgo conjunct your MH as well. And you have a Leo Sun and Leo Uranus? How do you interpret all that?

Northnode in Sag. in the 1st House isn't into infinite hermitude; variety in self expression!

I like the storyteller image very much, just suspect you may suddenly gain a large and powerful audience for your tales (and/or astrology research). Just because you aren't looking for this doesn't mean it won't happen. Pluto on the MH, your ruling planet; seems like something very powerful and public ought to manifest.... you disagree?

RedRose

[mercuric]

redrose,

i would love to hear your interpretation of or thoughts about pluto on the midheaven.. i have that in my chart and have had a hard time understanding its significance

[RedRose]

Hi Mercuric,

Having Pluto on the Midheaven seems to me to mean that you enbody your whole generation; maybe you might be the voice of your generation in some way, that sort of thing. Also, ala Jeff Green, at your most primal soul level, you need to shoot your Pluto energy down your IC, so you probably have access to ancestral knowledge. Dig deep, you were built to dig deep.

Sudden fame, maybe more than once in life. Or public scandal. Martyrdom is always possible, or a specular death of some sort!

Robin Williams has Pluto conjunct his MH. And Nixon. Who else?

Here are more mundane interp.s off the web:

http://www.astrologysoftwareshop.com...nr/reports.htm

Pluto conjunct Midheaven

Your drive for success is so compelling that you seem (to yourself at least) to be marked by destiny. You want to be the agent for permanent and lasting change in your chosen line of endeavor. Very competitive, you are unafraid of the responsibilities that ensue for those seeking power and authority. As such, you have great leadership potential. The biggest problem here is that your ambition may cause you to disrespect the needs of others. Be careful: any tendency toward using unethical or strong-arm tactics will produce a tremendous amount of resistance to your efforts from many quarters. If you combine tact and humility with your strong sense of mission, you will be truly powerful.



http://www.manic-raven.com/astrology/Pluto_Aspect.htm

Pluto Conjunct Midheaven:

In structuring your professional life, you invest a great deal of energy. To reach the goals you have set for yourself, you demonstrate a sophistication that astounds everyone around you. In a classical sense, Pluto at the MC points to activity in atomic physics, still Pluto is involved with everything that has depth. Probably you have intuitive energy that you should definitely put to use in a way that will benefit everybody, or else it could have negative consequences for you.

Pluto deals with renewal; its position at the MC may mean that your status will constantly be changing. Possibly you will also often change your professional field. Even if the people closest to you do not react with a lot of understanding, you are convinced that it is necessary.

http://astrologyweekly.com/astrologi...dheaven-mc.php

Pluto conjunct Midheaven

During your life, you will go through many changes, but you will always have the desire to make an impact upon the world and to be regarded as a person of significance. The danger you must face it that you may want to go too far too fast and thereby alienate the people who have authority over you. While you are young, this will mean mostly parents and teachers, but you might occasionally encounter police or government officials.

You are likely to have a very intense relationship with one of your parents, and it is important that this be a good relationship as well. Unless it is constructive, guilt and other forms of emotional bondage may arise from it. You must be able to talk to that parent openly and honestly, and he or she must be able to let go as you become more mature. Unfortunately this placement often indicates that one of your parents tries to arrest your development at some point through being overpossessive and domineering.

Sometimes the method is very subtle, using self-sacrifice and guilt, instead of more open power tactics. But a positive and creative parent relationship will give you self-confidence and the desire to achieve something of great significance in your life.

One thought that you must always keep before you, however, is the necessity of doing everything openly and honestly. Otherwise, at some point in your life, all the negative consequences of your actions will be exposed, thus tearing down whatever good you have done. Nixon is an example of this type of person.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Any Pluto in Cancer elders here? Anyone born before 1940?

Pluto goes in Capricorn in 2008 and I noticed that there is an article about that in Mountain Astrologer but I haven't read it yet. Again, because of the eliptical orbit of Pluto, we have been whipping through generations, astrologically speakiing. Both my parents and grandparents were Pluto in Cancer. I am Pluto in Leo, with 2 Pluto in Libra daughters and a Pluto in Scorpio son. If my daughters (ages 27 and 29) have children in the next three years, I will have Pluto in Sagittarius grandkids, if not I will have Pluto in Capricorn grandkids perhaps.

Now those Pluto in Cap. kids will grow up and have another generation of Pluto in Capricorn kids! It will be the long side of the Pluto orbit.

Then Pluto will fly away out into space, leaving the zodiac as we know it, never to return....or maybe not but I will be long dead, so whatever.

RedRose

[mercuric]

Hi Mercuric,

Having Pluto on the Midheaven seems to me to mean that you enbody your whole generation; maybe you might be the voice of your generation in some way, that sort of thing. Also, ala Jeff Green, at your most primal soul level, you need to shoot your Pluto energy down your IC, so you probably have access to ancestral knowledge. Dig deep, you were built to dig deep.

Sudden fame, maybe more than once in life. Or public scandal. Martyrdom is always possible, or a specular death of some sort!

Robin Williams has Pluto conjunct his MH. And Nixon. Who else?

Interesting! I am definitly into digging deep, and will spend hours happily chiseling and blasting away at the surface to get to the real "meat" that lurks below. It can occupy hours (sometimes even days) of my mental time and it's always very satisfying!

interesting on the ancestral knowledge. I feel very cut off from my own ancestors (direct family ancestors, that is) yet feel a special connection to the greater whole of past society. I've always wondered if this was something with pluto or my 12th house neptune that is said to offer me intuition from the collective unconscious... but this seems on a much more conscious level. Often I simply feel "out of time" as if i'm a few hundred years too late.

Thinking about this made me realize pluto influences my mercury as much as uranus does.. In the past i've mainly seen the uranus conjunction.. however, mercury is in scorpio (pluto's sign) and is also closely semisextile pluto. It's uranian connection is equally strong, as it's conjunct uranus and in the 11th house (of aquarius/uranus)

Thanks for the reply, quite interesting! :D

[the monk]

Now Monk, I never said you were coveting fame. I am simply observing that you have Pluto - in Leo yet - on your Midheaven. Mercury is in Virgo conjunct your MH as well. And you have a Leo Sun and Leo Uranus? How do you interpret all that?

Northnode in Sag. in the 1st House isn't into infinite hermitude; variety in self expression!

I like the storyteller image very much, just suspect you may suddenly gain a large and powerful audience for your tales (and/or astrology research). Just because you aren't looking for this doesn't mean it won't happen. Pluto on the MH, your ruling planet; seems like something very powerful and public ought to manifest.... you disagree?

RedRose

Hi RedRose,
I do understand that i cant side step natal chart considerations, but my personal study of karma has left me very humble, possessions do not mean much to me, money that i earn is usually spent on my child or step-child, who i love sincerely and deeply, like many of us do, they are not sentiments that only i possess....sorry, virgin Vesta sentiments!
Anyhow, as you like the " Story Teller" image....lets create a bit of magic, after all i cant say i am a master astrologer...my love is sacred geometry, myths and legends!
ELEVENS AND THE INVOLUNTARY ST. VITAS DANCE, 1914-1918.
Throughout the Middle Ages there was a disease that attacked the nervous system, the symptoms being involuntary jerking and movement of limbs, so it looked as if those that were afflicted were dancing!
In order to understand exactly what went wrong back in the summer of 1914, we need to look no further than examine the key alliances that occurred between 1879 and 1907, ending with "The Triple Entente".
In Fact these treaties were alliances that the major nations signed in fear of each other declaring war, yet made all of Europe vulnerable to a terrorist attack, bringing the powerful nations into an involuntary dance of death and a war that no one wanted yet were duty bound by the signed agreements.
I mention this fact only to show how the collective consciousness/memory somehow can get played out in events that unfold by starting on a particular date.
St. Vitas Dance is dancing to someone elses tune, that is involuntary.
Lets put some details down so that you understand better.
St. Vitas Day 1389, The Battle of Kosovo Polye, (field of blackbirds) marks the beginning of the Serbian Nation, the spirit of togetherness that saw the Serbian peoples unite against the Turkish invader.
There is some grounds to speculate that June 28th 1914, St Vitas Day may have been chosen as the date to open W.W.1.
Two bullets fired on a Sarajevo street on a sunny morning in 1914 set in motion a series of events that shaped the world we live in today. World War One, World War Two, The Middle East problem, The Cold War and its conclusions, all trace their origins to the gunshots that interrupted that summer day, June 28th, 1914.
The victims, Archduke Ferdinand, heir to the throne of the Austro- Hungarian Empire, and his wife Sophie were shot by 19 year old Gavrilo Princip who burned with the fire of Slavic nationalism. He envisioned the death of the Archduke as the key that would unlock the shackles binding his people to the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Serbia, figured prominently in the plot......independent Serbia provided the guns, ammunition and training that made the assassination possible......they may also have seen a symbolic connection to the "Battle of Kosovo Polye", and so in theory used this date.
Gavrilo Princip become an unwitting "Pied Piper", as this assassination precipitated the Austrian declaration of war against Serbia which triggered W.W.1., and the involuntary St. Vitas Dance.
By the time the Armistice took place on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month 1918, (laying down of arms by all nations) so that a peace treaty could be concluded, Britain and France wanted to make Germany pay dearly for many years for being in a war that in effect wasnt only her fault.
America, to her credit realising that this could spell problems in the area with civil unrest and a possible re-occurence of this conflict in the decades that followed didnt ratify the peace agreement that Britain and France entered into that forced Germany to pay crippling repayments for the losses incurred by the victors.
Thus Britain and France wanted Germany to dance to their tune......The date that Germany was forced to sign this agreement was again June 28th 1919, (St. Vitas Day), being the "Treaty of Versailles".
America didnt ratify a separate peace treaty with Germany till 3 years after the Armistice, (11th hour 11/11/1918)........RATIFIED SIGNED PEACE DOCUMENTS WERE EXCHANGED IN BERLIN ON 11/11/1921...At 11am. for all i know....looks very suspicious that numerology was used, as 11 is a master number that would powerplay and underline any agreement.
The story and plot thickens....do you want me to continue into part two, with the "Story Tellers" tale?....... Perhaps this isnt the right thread for true stories, yet that is my focus having a Pluto M.C.

[RedRose]

Hi Monk,

I want both. Continue here AND copy it into a separate thread to make it easier for others to find it.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Hello Mercuric,

What similarities do you see between yourself and the Monk (2 Pluto on the MidHeaven people)? Of course, the Monk has Pluto in Leo and you are Pluto in Libra? But you both are detailed astrologers; fairly esoteric I would say. Grasp of history may be another common theme.

What kind of astrology research are you most engaged with?

RedRose

[the monk]

Hi Monk,

I want both. Continue here AND copy it into a separate thread to make it easier for others to find it.

RedRose

Okay RedRose,
for the moment please find document on attachment verifying most dates mentioned in part one, i always have "government" documents to back my "stories".....Pluto investigator (Sam Spade) Ha Ha!

[mercuric]

Hello Mercuric,

What similarities do you see between yourself and the Monk (2 Pluto on the MidHeaven people)? Of course, the Monk has Pluto in Leo and you are Pluto in Libra? But you both are detailed astrologers; fairly esoteric I would say. Grasp of history may be another common theme.

What kind of astrology research are you most engaged with?

RedRose

Honestly I dont know any of you enough to make comparisons yet.. that will change it seems If pluto on the midheaven has the sort of effect i seem to think it has on me, we're probably both very intense, such that people we come in contact with may even be intimdated by that intensity.. I bet we're both also able to touch upon subjects or philosophies most people would be a bit fearful of. I do notice we both pay major attention to geometry and are not afraid to talk about the astrology of very dark times.

I'm mostly into event and relationship astrology... Relating current (and upcoming) sky conditions with events below. I find astrology can help me understand current events in a new manner, and understand some of the motivating energies behind happenings. relationship astrology perks me because i enjoy learning about human relationships, and find it can be very helpful to couples... with the added bonus of helping me understand my own relationships on a much deeper level!

Most of the stuff i've been studying as of late has to do with major world events. I've been relating aspect patterns, midpoints, and the lunar nodes to events for a while, and I think I'm learning some interesting things!

I'm definitly the "outer planet" type with all three outers placed in fairly strong spots... This seems to make me want to connect to the collective rather than any one individual of the collective.

[the monk]

Honestly I dont know any of you enough to make comparisons yet.. that will change it seems If pluto on the midheaven has the sort of effect i seem to think it has on me, we're probably both very intense, such that people we come in contact with may even be intimdated by that intensity.. I bet we're both also able to touch upon subjects or philosophies most people would be a bit fearful of. I do notice we both pay major attention to geometry and are not afraid to talk about the astrology of very dark times.

I'm mostly into event and relationship astrology... Relating current (and upcoming) sky conditions with events below. I find astrology can help me understand current events in a new manner, and understand some of the motivating energies behind happenings. relationship astrology perks me because i enjoy learning about human relationships, and find it can be very helpful to couples... with the added bonus of helping me understand my own relationships on a much deeper level!

Most of the stuff i've been studying as of late has to do with major world events. I've been relating aspect patterns, midpoints, and the lunar nodes to events for a while, and I think I'm learning some interesting things!

I'm definitly the "outer planet" type with all three outers placed in fairly strong spots... This seems to make me want to connect to the collective rather than any one individual of the collective.

Hi Merc,
Interesting stuff, i think you are right that we may well delve into stuff that others would be a little apprehensive in studying.
I even scare myself, as im not sure of the forces within myself yet.....maybe i look at odds too much, as i'm always looking for Pluto signs to verify my connection to the collective karmic sea.
I must admit that obviously normally i wouldnt look for a Pluto connection with fixed stars in a natal chart but it didnt settle my nerves looking at my Pluto parans for the day i was born.
I know Bernadette Brady doesnt make any mention about the significance of Pluto rising on the day of birth with the "Head of the Dragon/Hydra grinning at it over the horizon, but as you can see from attachment behind the Dragon is Sirius rising......thats enough to give my wimpy Pluto the jitters, ha ha! More sacred geometry on attachment for you as well.

[RedRose]

Frankly, Monk and Merc, you do seem to have a lot in common as astrologers. Of course, not all people with Pluto on the Midheaven are astrologers. Pluto connunct MH folks I have met are intense people and into history and often politics.

Found this. Seems to say what you two are saying.

http://www.starfriends.com/NSAspectsPluto.HTM
Pluto Conjunct Midheaven

You have a natural aptitude for describing the most sensitive areas of the human psyche, a practical psychologist of the first order. You can manage and work with touchy issues that others wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.

RedRose